Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Opens 2025

[Cliff]

I have to say that this entire project is incredibly impressive. Every month, it appears better and better and more stunning.

THIS is what you get when Imagineers leave Disney and bring their decades "magic", knowledge and experience to a company that wants to take ACTION.....send money....and implement it.

Wow,...this is inspirational on every level..

 

[JT3000]

It's not that narrow (look at the crane). Plus there are side entrances. No different, really, then the arch at USF

It's definitely narrow enough to be a choke point if they close off the currently open spaces on each side of it. You could only fit two of those trucks in there. And if they don't intend to close off the area around it, well, that'll just look weird. Why even put a portal there?

I have to say that this entire project is incredibly impressive. Every month, it appears better and better and more stunning.

THIS is what you get when Imagineers leave Disney and bring their decades "magic", knowledge and experience to a company that wants to take ACTION.....send money....and implement it.

Wow,...this is inspirational on every level..

I could be wrong, but I believe Universal has actually been losing more creatives to Disney than vice versa in recent years. The big exodus from Imagineering to Universal Creative happened back when IOA was under development.

 

[celluloid]

I could be wrong, but I believe Universal has actually been losing more creatives to Disney than vice versa in recent years. The big exodus from Imagineering to Universal Creative happened back when IOA was under development.

Not just in the numbers.

The point Cliff had is specifically pertinent on decades of knowledge, experience and philosophy. There is enough of the old guard of those there and the new coming in learn right from them because they have skillsets and appreciation. The need to come from WDI first became less and less. Not just creatively, but hospitality in general for the company.

 

[danlb_2000]

I question the wisdom of placing a narrow portal right at the park's entrance.

There are pathways on either side, so probably a similar amount of walking space to Magic Kingdom.

 

[Andrew25]

I could be wrong, but I believe Universal has actually been losing more creatives to Disney than vice versa in recent years. The big exodus from Imagineering to Universal Creative happened back when IOA was under development.

People flip flop between both companies (and third parties) all the time.

There are folks who are concept artists who might have previously worked on Epic and are now at WDI as they start to reinvest into the parks and need their expertise.

Universal Creative has increased in size, and will continue to as they work on projects like HHN Vegas, the Kids park, and the UK park.

 

[Cliff]

Not just in the numbers.

The point Cliff had is specifically pertinent on decades of knowledge, experience and philosophy. There is enough of the old guard of those there and the new coming in learn right from them because they have skillsets and appreciation. The need to come from WDI first became less and less. Not just creatively, but hospitality in general for the company.

Not trying to go too far off-topic here. (I tend to do that often;-)

"American Heartland" is yet ANOTHER new Disney-style project that appears (in the Blue Sky stage anyway) to again, capture the Disney-quality "Imagineering" that we have all come to love over the generations. And,...it's being done by a no-name company using ex-Disney Imagineers and over two billion dollars. They break ground this year.

For most of my life, Disney Imagineering was unique, proprietary and "safe" from any other company matching them. No,...that is no longer the case anymore! ANY company today, if they have the money and the willpower, can create anything that is truly "Disney-quality"....and completely PASS Disney and run right by it. (potentially)

The "Imagineering" industry is no longer a test or race of knowledge and skill. That knowledge and skill have escaped the walls of the company. It's a race and test of sheer actual "willpower". The organization that "wants" it the most can now have what Disney has (or had)....and "can" pass Disney with MUCH more.

I would argue that Disney might no longer have the Imagineering "willpower" today to be #1 and unique any longer.

Walt Disney's "Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow" will never be built by Disney. Someday, it will probably be built in a place like Dubai by a company that has the willpower to do it. It could literally be more "Disney",...than actual Disney is today.

"Disney magic" now belongs to anybody.

I think that this is where we are now....

 

[sonoma15]

Not trying to go too far off-topic here. (I tend to do that often;-)

"American Heartland" is yet ANOTHER new Disney-style project that appears (in the Blue Sky stage anyway) to again, capture the Disney-quality "Imagineering" that we have all come to love over the generations. And,...it's being done by a no-name company using ex-Disney Imagineers and over two billion dollars. They break ground this year.

View attachment 775697

For most of my life, Disney Imagineering was unique, proprietary and "safe" from any other company matching them. No,...that is no longer the case anymore! ANY company today, if they have the money and the willpower, can create anything that is truly "Disney-quality"....and completely PASS Disney and run right by it. (potentially)

The "Imagineering" industry is no longer a test or race of knowledge and skill. That knowledge and skill have escaped the walls of the company. It's a race and test of sheer actual "willpower". The organization that "wants" it the most can now have what Disney has (or had)....and "can" pass Disney with MUCH more.

I would argue that Disney might no longer have the Imagineering "willpower" today to be #1 and unique any longer.

Walt Disney's "Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow" will never be built by Disney. Someday, it will probably be built in a place like Dubai by a company that has the willpower to do it. It could literally be more "Disney",...than actual Disney is today.

"Disney magic" now belongs to anybody.

I think that this is where we are now....

If I'm being real. No way this park actually ever happens. Yes, they are breaking ground this year but only on an RV park and campground. If it does happen, it will not be on the scale or size of that concept art, because they have no money to do so, I honestly doubt 2 billion is enough, and for reference, Epic Universe is costing north of 6 billion dollars, and will probably be the most expensive theme park ever built.

 

[Cliff]

If I'm being real. No way this park actually ever happens. Yes, they are breaking ground this year but only on an RV park and campground. If it does happen, it will not be on the scale or size of that concept art, because they have no money to do so, I honestly doubt 2 billion is enough, and for reference, Epic Universe is costing north of 6 billion dollars, and will probably be the most expensive theme park ever built.

You are prolly correct. What I would expect is phase one being made and then a "wait and see" approach for phase two.

The size and scale (and cost) of phase two is entirely based on the success of phase one??. If it "is" popular? It "should" continue to grow and grow over time based on that customer demand. If they can successfully tug on our patriotic "red white and blue" heartstrings and grow from "that" love? I think it's possibly a strong recipe for success. If phase one "really" creates demand and it performs well? Will phase two bring even more investor support? The overall "theme" of this park certainly has an inherent "built-in" audience. (Unless they get "political" or go "activist"...which would destroy and wipe-out the entire park attraction draw immediately)

On the cost?...hmmm...I wonder what the land cost, local tax incentives, and construction costs of Oklahoma are compared to Orlando? I would have to suspect that the state will bend over backwards to help this theme park get built in their state. I would guess there is ENORMOUS local and state government support for this???

 

[lazyboy97o]

You kind of need people actually doing stuff to get a Phase I done.

 

[SplashJacket]

Not trying to go too far off-topic here. (I tend to do that often;-)

"American Heartland" is yet ANOTHER new Disney-style project that appears (in the Blue Sky stage anyway) to again, capture the Disney-quality "Imagineering" that we have all come to love over the generations. And,...it's being done by a no-name company using ex-Disney Imagineers and over two billion dollars. They break ground this year.

View attachment 775697

For most of my life, Disney Imagineering was unique, proprietary and "safe" from any other company matching them. No,...that is no longer the case anymore! ANY company today, if they have the money and the willpower, can create anything that is truly "Disney-quality"....and completely PASS Disney and run right by it. (potentially)

The "Imagineering" industry is no longer a test or race of knowledge and skill. That knowledge and skill have escaped the walls of the company. It's a race and test of sheer actual "willpower". The organization that "wants" it the most can now have what Disney has (or had)....and "can" pass Disney with MUCH more.

I would argue that Disney might no longer have the Imagineering "willpower" today to be #1 and unique any longer.

Walt Disney's "Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow" will never be built by Disney. Someday, it will probably be built in a place like Dubai by a company that has the willpower to do it. It could literally be more "Disney",...than actual Disney is today.

"Disney magic" now belongs to anybody.

I think that this is where we are now....

What people miss is Imagineering is more than just designing stuff for theme parks.

They do an incredible amount of R&D that isn’t necessarily Parks applicable.

Very different work than the old Bell Labs, but the R&D is extremely impressive for a non-tech company/university.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Not trying to go too far off-topic here. (I tend to do that often;-)

"American Heartland" is yet ANOTHER new Disney-style project that appears (in the Blue Sky stage anyway) to again, capture the Disney-quality "Imagineering" that we have all come to love over the generations. And,...it's being done by a no-name company using ex-Disney Imagineers and over two billion dollars. They break ground this year.

View attachment 775697

For most of my life, Disney Imagineering was unique, proprietary and "safe" from any other company matching them. No,...that is no longer the case anymore! ANY company today, if they have the money and the willpower, can create anything that is truly "Disney-quality"....and completely PASS Disney and run right by it. (potentially)

The "Imagineering" industry is no longer a test or race of knowledge and skill. That knowledge and skill have escaped the walls of the company. It's a race and test of sheer actual "willpower". The organization that "wants" it the most can now have what Disney has (or had)....and "can" pass Disney with MUCH more.

I would argue that Disney might no longer have the Imagineering "willpower" today to be #1 and unique any longer.

Walt Disney's "Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow" will never be built by Disney. Someday, it will probably be built in a place like Dubai by a company that has the willpower to do it. It could literally be more "Disney",...than actual Disney is today.

"Disney magic" now belongs to anybody.

I think that this is where we are now....

"EPCOT", as conceived, would not be possible. You can't put people into living situations with unproven (i.e., prototypes) equipment nor can you experiment with peoples lives. Imagine if they had built the city and installed the Evac garbage system. We now know it clogs, smells and breaks down frequently. Imagine that being the only was to dispose of you trash. You could build the "C" part (i.e. a city) but the E,P, andT would become obsolete faster than Tomorrowland

 

[celluloid]

Not trying to go too far off-topic here. (I tend to do that often;-)

"American Heartland" is yet ANOTHER new Disney-style project that appears (in the Blue Sky stage anyway) to again, capture the Disney-quality "Imagineering" that we have all come to love over the generations. And,...it's being done by a no-name company using ex-Disney Imagineers and over two billion dollars. They break ground this year.

View attachment 775697

For most of my life, Disney Imagineering was unique, proprietary and "safe" from any other company matching them. No,...that is no longer the case anymore! ANY company today, if they have the money and the willpower, can create anything that is truly "Disney-quality"....and completely PASS Disney and run right by it. (potentially)

The "Imagineering" industry is no longer a test or race of knowledge and skill. That knowledge and skill have escaped the walls of the company. It's a race and test of sheer actual "willpower". The organization that "wants" it the most can now have what Disney has (or had)....and "can" pass Disney with MUCH more.

I would argue that Disney might no longer have the Imagineering "willpower" today to be #1 and unique any longer.

Walt Disney's "Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow" will never be built by Disney. Someday, it will probably be built in a place like Dubai by a company that has the willpower to do it. It could literally be more "Disney",...than actual Disney is today.

"Disney magic" now belongs to anybody.

I think that this is where we are now....

Willpower bold and all of your other points are pertinent. Company wide issue proves it is not just a fluke and for this long. You could replace the WDI with animation studios and see how the rivals have, well rivaled far more often than not in the last decade.

 

[JT3000]

You are prolly correct. What I would expect is phase one being made and then a "wait and see" approach for phase two.

The size and scale (and cost) of phase two is entirely based on the success of phase one??. If it "is" popular? It "should" continue to grow and grow over time based on that customer demand. If they can successfully tug on our patriotic "red white and blue" heartstrings and grow from "that" love? I think it's possibly a strong recipe for success. If phase one "really" creates demand and it performs well? Will phase two bring even more investor support? The overall "theme" of this park certainly has an inherent "built-in" audience. (Unless they get "political" or go "activist"...which would destroy and wipe-out the entire park attraction draw immediately)

On the cost?...hmmm...I wonder what the land cost, local tax incentives, and construction costs of Oklahoma are compared to Orlando? I would have to suspect that the state will bend over backwards to help this theme park get built in their state. I would guess there is ENORMOUS local and state government support for this???

Without getting too political... I think getting political would actually be in the best interests of this park's investors. Do I actually want more wealthy businessmen preying on America's division? No, not at all, but it's already proven to be a very lucrative strategy. This could be equally true for a new theme park at a time like this, where folks of a certain political affiliation are constantly throwing vitriol at Disney. This could be their Disneyland! Would it turn off a whole lot of people? Absolutely, but most of us are never visiting either way, and the potential audience who are more likely to actually visit this park in the first place, given its remote location, would probably eat it up. Lots of people detest Fox News. That hasn't prevented it from also growing a militantly loyal viewership.

Oh, and asking for a bunch of handouts from the aforementioned audience is probably the only way this park even gets built, so there's also that.

 

[Weather_Lady]

Without getting too political... I think getting political would actually be in the best interests of this park's investors. Do I actually want more wealthy businessmen preying on America's division? No, not at all, but it's already proven to be a very lucrative strategy. This could be equally true for a new theme park at a time like this, where folks of a certain political affiliation are constantly throwing vitriol at Disney. This could be their Disneyland! Would it turn off a whole lot of people? Absolutely, but most of us are never visiting either way, and the potential audience who are more likely to actually visit this park in the first place, given its remote location, would probably eat it up. Lots of people detest Fox News. That hasn't prevented it from also growing a militantly loyal viewership.

Oh, and asking for a bunch of handouts from the aforementioned audience is probably the only way this park even gets built, so there's also that.

I suspect it would go the way of Heritage, USA. Same people, different generation, and equally prone to financial over-optimism and mismanagement.

 

[Cliff]

On the politics, they would need to keep it politically neutral like Disney does with "Hall of Presidents" or "The American Adventure" or "Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln"...etc

Disney had this idea back in the 90's for a new Disney park in Virginia and the Blue Sky ideas looked really cool.

I have to suspect that if done correctly while keeping construction costs down, there "could" be a powerful market for this. I myself would certainly race over there from Florida to check it on when it opens. If it's "really" is good? Yeah, I could certainly see myself going there every year or two or three. I fly to Disneyland for a week every other year....why not this place?

 

[lazyboy97o]

I suspect it would go the way of Heritage, USA. Same people, different generation, and equally prone to financial over-optimism and mismanagement.

Heritage USA opened. American Heartland was not going to be the political park people expected but it’s also not happening right now.

 

[mkt]

I could be wrong, but I believe Universal has actually been losing more creatives to Disney than vice versa in recent years. The big exodus from Imagineering to Universal Creative happened back when IOA was under development.

You're somewhat wrong, but somewhat right?

WDI and Universal Creative tend to bring in a lot of people on a project by project basis, but are actually pretty lean operations when they're not working a large project load. So it's extremely common for people to go back and forth between WDI and Universal Creative (as well as other companies that provide similar services to other parks, like Cedar Point, Six, Flags, Knotts, etc).

This is so common that I personally know people who have decades-long careers spent bouncing back and forth between WDI and Universal Creative. I even know of one person that has enough 1-year Mickey Mouse nametag pins to fill a full pin-trading lanyard

 

[Andrew25]

You're somewhat wrong, but somewhat right?

WDI and Universal Creative tend to bring in a lot of people on a project by project basis, but are actually pretty lean operations when they're not working a large project load. So it's extremely common for people to go back and forth between WDI and Universal Creative (as well as other companies that provide similar services to other parks, like Cedar Point, Six, Flags, Knotts, etc).

This is so common that I personally know people who have decades-long careers spent bouncing back and forth between WDI and Universal Creative. I even know of one person that has enough 1-year Mickey Mouse nametag pins to fill a full pin-trading lanyard

+ take into consideration that the theme park market overall has grown... so more creative individuals overall. Universal Creative has (quadrupled?) in size and Imagineering was massive, then cut, and now gaining back headcount.

We can go back and forth on what theme park attractions are more well-designed... but Universal Creative & Imagineering can do pretty much the same thing today. The biggest difference is which one is being impacted the most by corporate decision makers.

 

[SJN1279]

I loved the first How to Train Your Dragon. I will definitely visit this park, but somehow I'm underwhelmed at the same time with the attraction lineup so far.

 

[ToTBellHop]

They could teach a masterclass on April Fool’s jokes.