Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

How many kids die from the chicken pox? Do we say don’t vaccinate them then? This whole narrative is really, really tiring. People are so hung up on masks in school that they are convinced kids are invincible due to covid.

I don't know why we vaccinate against chicken pox. I had it (as did many of my friends) when I was a kid. Other than some itching and trying not to end up with scars from scratching it wasn't a big deal. I had many bad colds and sore throats as a kid that were far worse than the chicken pox.

Statistically, they are pretty close to invincible against COVID. My post contained nothing but FACTS that are available from the CDC.

 

[Kevin_W]

I don't know why we vaccinate against chicken pox. I had it (as did many of my friends) when I was a kid. Other than some itching and trying not to end up with scars from scratching it wasn't a big deal. I had many bad colds and sore throats as a kid that were far worse than the chicken pox.

Well, it's similar rational as for Covid. Most kids have no issue with the disease, but 1 in 100,000 die from it. The chance of a bad reaction to the vaccine is far less than that. Plus, if you avoid even the unpleasantness of chickenpox for your kid, why wouldn't you?

There is also the fact that the vaccine reduces your chances of developing shingles later in life by ~75%. My dad and sister both had shingles and agree that it sucks.

 

[DisneyFan32]

We could be even better off or we could be worse, it really all depends on how wide spread vaccine mandates are for workplaces and schools and also how far we go with vaccine passports. It’s quite obvious at this point that enough people won’t just decide to get the vaccine on their own.

As far as childhood vaccines, many of those took decades to get to 90%+ vaccinated. The measles vaccine came out in the 1950s but measles wasn’t eliminated in the US until almost 50 years later. Not saying it will take that long for Covid since we have better technology, better logistics and more money backing this vaccine but it may take some additional time beyond March 2022.

I am also assuming only 60% uptake in children since the vaccines will still be under EUA in March 2022. By the end of 2022 and maybe even by the start of school Fall 2022 they should have full approval and school should mandate vaccinations for all kids. If that 60% goes to 90%+ that adds 6 or 7% to the total and gets us closer to 90%.

@GoofGoof what about federal transportation mask mandate too? Will the masks will finally be gone for good for public transportation?

 

[dovetail65]

How many kids die from the chicken pox? Do we say don’t vaccinate them then? This whole narrative is really, really tiring. People are so hung up on masks in school that they are convinced kids are invincible due to covid.

Right

100 people a year died from chickenpox before the chickenpox vaccine and still everyone supported that vaccine because the fact is we dont want to get the illnesses in the first place.

Now we have millions of deaths worldwide from Covid and people fight this vaccine, just weird.

 

[DisneyCane]

Well, it's similar rational as for Covid. Most kids have no issue with the disease, but 1 in 100,000 die from it. The chance of a bad reaction to the vaccine is far less than that. Plus, if you avoid even the unpleasantness of chickenpox for your kid, why wouldn't you?

There is also the fact that the vaccine reduces your chances of developing shingles later in life by ~75%. My dad and sister both had shingles and agree that it sucks.

I would rather have avoided the unpleasantness of sore throats to be honest. Plus, I can get the shingles vaccine as an adult and reduce the chances of getting it by 85%+.

 

[DisneyCane]

@GoofGoof what about federal transportation mask mandate too? Will the masks will finally be gone for good for public transportation?

No. People get angry when I say the mandate will exist until at least January 2025. When cases were on a steep decline before the delta spike there wasn't a peep about thinking about ending it. COVID cases will likely never get to near zero and therefore the ones in charge of this mandate will not remove it. They don't want fully vaccinated people to feel unsafe.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

"“We don’t know that for 100 percent certain, because we haven’t done the study to see rechallenges, whether they’ve been protected, but I feel really confident that if this virus acts like every other virus that we know, once you get infected, get better, clear the virus, that you’ll have immunity that will protect you against re-infection, so it’s never 100 percent, but I’d be willing to bet anything that people who recover are really protected against re-infection."
-Dr. Anthony Fauci (3/26/2020 on the Daily Show)

Given the above combined with the Israeli study that shows 27 times the protection from natural infection, if he "always backs the science," why is he insisting that people who were infected and recovered need to be vaccinated?

Because you quoted him from 2020 in March of that year. The science has changed and is changing daily. He is following the science. Why is this so hard?

 

[Disstevefan1]

"“We don’t know that for 100 percent certain, because we haven’t done the study to see rechallenges, whether they’ve been protected, but I feel really confident that if this virus acts like every other virus that we know, once you get infected, get better, clear the virus, that you’ll have immunity that will protect you against re-infection, so it’s never 100 percent, but I’d be willing to bet anything that people who recover are really protected against re-infection."
-Dr. Anthony Fauci (3/26/2020 on the Daily Show)

Given the above combined with the Israeli study that shows 27 times the protection from natural infection, if he "always backs the science," why is he insisting that people who were infected and recovered need to be vaccinated?

You can't really quote Fauci, as he changes his replies seemingly at random trying to give the best answer at that moment ...

 

[DisneyCane]

Because you quoted him from 2020 in March of that year. The science has changed and is changing daily. He is following the science. Why is this so hard?

So our immune system responds completely differently to SARS-CoV-2 than it does to "every other virus that we know?" When somebody as esteemed as he is says that they are "willing to bet anything" I would take that to mean "the science" has long since been settled on the topic.

The latest "science" is the study out of Israel that shows natural immunity to be 27 times vaccine induced immunity. Why isn't he following that science? He only mentioned it at all when asked by Sanjay Gupta.

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't know why we vaccinate against chicken pox. I had it (as did many of my friends) when I was a kid. Other than some itching and trying not to end up with scars from scratching it wasn't a big deal. I had many bad colds and sore throats as a kid that were far worse than the chicken pox.

Statistically, they are pretty close to invincible against COVID. My post contained nothing but FACTS that are available from the CDC.

Kids get covid, kids spread covid, the people they spread it to die more frequently even if the kids don’t. Its sad and quite frankly pathetic that people still don’t get how vaccines work. It’s not about protecting just you. It’s about reducing the number of potential spreaders so community spread goes way down. Your attitude about kids is no different than a healthy adult saying they don’t need the vaccine because they won’t get seriously ill from Covid. Kids and healthy adults are part of that spread. Vaccinating all kids is absolutely necessary.

 

[DisneyCane]

Kids get covid, kids spread covid, the people they spread it to die more frequently even if the kids don’t. Its sad and quite frankly pathetic that people still don’t get how vaccines work. It’s not about protecting just you. It’s about reducing the number of potential spreaders so community spread goes way down. Your attitude about kids is no different than a healthy adult saying they don’t need the vaccine because they won’t get seriously ill from Covid. Kids and healthy adults are part of that spread. Vaccinating all kids is absolutely necessary.

Well, apparently these vaccines don't work in the way you are describing. I "got" how they were supposed to work. Changes in guidance after large scale vaccination indicate that they don't prevent spread to a high enough degree.

As low as the risk is for a healthy adult, it is much higher than the the risk to a child 11 or under. Based on statistics, I would say that anybody 30 or older who doesn't take advantage of the reduced risk provided by the vaccine is making a very dumb decision.

 

[GoofGoof]

Well, apparently these vaccines don't work in the way you are describing. I "got" how they were supposed to work. Changes in guidance after large scale vaccination indicate that they don't prevent spread to a high enough degree.

As low as the risk is for a healthy adult, it is much higher than the the risk to a child 11 or under. Based on statistics, I would say that anybody 30 or older who doesn't take advantage of the reduced risk provided by the vaccine is making a very dumb decision.

Just stop. The vaccines work exactly as I am describing and exactly as they are supposed to work. You are falling for anti-vaxx nonsense whether you realize it or not. For the vaccines to not prevent spread they would have to have an efficacy of zero. Do you believe that? The efficacy has fallen some but can be “boosted” back up with booster shots.…see JnJ release from today.

 

[correcaminos]

So our immune system responds completely differently to SARS-CoV-2 than it does to "every other virus that we know?" When somebody as esteemed as he is says that they are "willing to bet anything" I would take that to mean "the science" has long since been settled on the topic.

The latest "science" is the study out of Israel that shows natural immunity to be 27 times vaccine induced immunity. Why isn't he following that science? He only mentioned it at all when asked by Sanjay Gupta.

That's one study. Not all studies agree.

 

[JoeCamel]

I don't know why we vaccinate against chicken pox. I had it (as did many of my friends) when I was a kid. Other than some itching and trying not to end up with scars from scratching it wasn't a big deal. I had many bad colds and sore throats as a kid that were far worse than the chicken pox.

Statistically, they are pretty close to invincible against COVID. My post contained nothing but FACTS that are available from the CDC.

Get shingles in your eye and you might see it differently

 

[dovetail65]

So our immune system responds completely differently to SARS-CoV-2 than it does to "every other virus that we know?" When somebody as esteemed as he is says that they are "willing to bet anything" I would take that to mean "the science" has long since been settled on the topic.

The latest "science" is the study out of Israel that shows natural immunity to be 27 times vaccine induced immunity. Why isn't he following that science? He only mentioned it at all when asked by Sanjay Gupta.

Jesus, 640 thousand dead.

That is all that need be said:

Natural immunity is NOT better and that is clear.

COVID-19: Disease-induced (natural) immunity, vaccination or hybrid immunity?

If you’ve had COVID-19 before, does your natural immunity work better than a vaccine?

www.nebraskamed.com

 

[DisneyCane]

Just stop. The vaccines work exactly as I am describing and exactly as they are supposed to work. You are falling for anti-vaxx nonsense whether you realize it or not. For the vaccines to not prevent spread they would have to have an efficacy of zero. Do you believe that? The efficacy has fallen some but can be “boosted” back up with booster shots.…see JnJ release from today.

I'm not falling for anything. I don't believe the efficacy is zero vs. infection/transmission but it is apparently not nearly high enough to get to eradication no matter how high the vaccination rate is. Vermont has the highest vaccination rate AND a low population density and still has the highest case numbers they've ever had. Hopefully the high vaccination rate minimizes severe illness and death but with respect to cases it isn't taking cases to near zero.

69% of the population of Vermont is fully vaccinated (78% of eligible) and 77.2% of the population has had at least one shot (87.4% of eligible). Do you really expect anywhere to exceed these rates by much no matter how many mandates are in place?

The JnJ booster data is for efficacy against symptomatic infection, not infection and spread.

 

[dovetail65]

Get shingles in your eye and you might see it differently

Exactly, a friend I know who just passed on was in a motorcycle accident and spent 9 month in the hospital, they put over 800 stitches in him and steel rods in his rebuilt legs.

He told me shingles was a far worse experience than that!

 

[DisneyCane]

Jesus, 640 thousand dead.

That is all that need be said:

Natural immunity is NOT better and that is clear.

COVID-19: Disease-induced (natural) immunity, vaccination or hybrid immunity?

If you’ve had COVID-19 before, does your natural immunity work better than a vaccine?

www.nebraskamed.com

No it isn't "clear." A vaccine attempts to trick your immune system into thinking you have been infected. Why would the trick cause a better immune response than an actual infection of anything? It could be equal. Perhaps it could last longer due to spaced out doses but why would anybody ever expect it to be better?

Also, when Fauci responded to the question about the Israeli study, he did not dispute the level of protection or even hedge. He questioned the "durability" of the natural immunity.

 

[correcaminos]

I don't know why we vaccinate against chicken pox. I had it (as did many of my friends) when I was a kid. Other than some itching and trying not to end up with scars from scratching it wasn't a big deal. I had many bad colds and sore throats as a kid that were far worse than the chicken pox.

Statistically, they are pretty close to invincible against COVID. My post contained nothing but FACTS that are available from the CDC.

Very good example. While you were fine with chicken pox, I had one friend hospitalized as a kid and 2 as young adults. I've said as a whole vaccines should be global, but this is one vaccine I did predominantly for me. I never had chicken pox. My child did not either. We are both fully vaccinated. We are at severely decreased risk for shingles. By almost 80% My doctor is quite unsure if I will need a chicken pox booster or shingles or nothing as I age at this time. While death is rare for pox, it's a bad disease and could hospitalize me if I didn't vaccinate myself. No 2 week downtime for kids in school,

So vaccinate for chicken pox. It was an easy vaccine to get and if it keeps me from shingles or even the shingles vaccine I'll call it a huge win.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Boosters will almsot certainly be approved for everyone once we get a little further along and the shots can be tailored like the flu shots are per season.

That is is presumption based on the efficacy continuing to decline, which it might not. We'll have to wait for the data to confirm that.

Before we get to boosting the original vaccine formulas, there may come a variant that escapes the current vaccines. In that case, we don't need a booster, we'll need a new vaccine formulation and everyone will need to be re-vaccinated. (Of course, a booster from the old formulation can be added to the new formulation so that the original variants don't reappear).