Rumor New Monorails Coming Soon?

[Brad Bishop]

More on this below

Exactly.

wdw customers stopped caring about value for the price the entire Bobs era.

the idea they “have to convince” people to buy those rooms if they can afford them is obselete. They revel in the bill in most cases.

Yep.

They could shutdown monorail transportation tomorrow and, I think it's been readily established that:
- People will complain
- People will then fork over the required amount to stay at a Deluxe Resort (so what if it's no longer "monorail" It's still "deluxe"!) and take a bus to the MK.

The problem isn't the Bob's. The problem is the fans who'll hand over money, no matter what, because: Disney!

Bob is just taking advantage of that. He could raise the prices to enter the parks tomorrow by $50/head/day and tell you that it only covers you until 6PM and then the "after hours" limited special magical event starts and it's $250 and, guess what, people will pay to go.

I don't think Bob is trying to screw anyone on this, myself. I think he's actively searching for the "market price" of the parks and, so far, he hasn't found it. Over and over again people will come to his gates, fists full of money, screaming, "LET ME IN!!"

 

[JoeCamel]

Yep.

They could shutdown monorail transportation tomorrow and, I think it's been readily established that:
- People will complain
- People will then fork over the required amount to stay at a Deluxe Resort (so what if it's no longer "monorail" It's still "deluxe"!) and take a bus to the MK.

The problem isn't the Bob's. The problem is the fans who'll hand over money, no matter what, because: Disney!

Bob is just taking advantage of that. He could raise the prices to enter the parks tomorrow by $50/head/day and tell you that it only covers you until 6PM and then the "after hours" limited special magical event starts and it's $250 and, guess what, people will pay to go.

I don't think Bob is trying to screw anyone on this, myself. I think he's actively searching for the "market price" of the parks and, so far, he hasn't found it. Over and over again people will come to his gates, fists full of money, screaming, "LET ME IN!!"

That is still the Bobs by taking advantage, I feel old school TWDC operations respected the "guest" by making the pricing reasonable? , in most minds, but now they just reach into your pocket without regard for how it may change your view of going to the parks. Once you feel they are not worth it you are done as a customer/guest. They may want that so they don't have to expand capacity but there is a tipping point where the "guests" just go elsewhere. Like spending 100 years of savings/goodwill in 10 years, once the bank is empty you find a golden pasture to run off to so you don't see the carnage left behind. Diznuts have a limit

 

[ImperfectPixie]

That is still the Bobs by taking advantage, I feel old school TWDC operations respected the "guest" by making the pricing reasonable? , in most minds, but now they just reach into your pocket without regard for how it may change your view of going to the parks. Once you feel they are not worth it you are done as a customer/guest. They may want that so they don't have to expand capacity but there is a tipping point where the "guests" just go elsewhere. Like spending 100 years of savings/goodwill in 10 years, once the bank is empty you find a golden pasture to run off to so you don't see the carnage left behind. Diznuts have a limit

Agreed.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Those were refurbished Mk Vs.

That were themselves built on the chassis of the Mark IIIs. Disneyland last received an entirely new monorail train before Walt Disney World opened.

 

[montyz81]

That were themselves built on the chassis of the Mark IIIs. Disneyland last received an entirely new monorail train before Walt Disney World opened.

My understanding is that they were new trains through and through. I recall seeing one mk v train in junk while all three mk vii’s were on the beam.

 

[WDWTrojan]

My understanding is that they were new trains through and through. I recall seeing one mk v train in junk while all three mk vii’s were on the beam.

The DL trains were brand new from scratch.

 

[lazyboy97o]

My understanding is that they were new trains through and through. I recall seeing one mk v train in junk while all three mk vii’s were on the beam.

The DL trains were brand new from scratch.

The Mark VIIs were not brand new. Look at the body, except the nose, and you will see that they are the same ones from the Mark V. One Mark V was scrapped but they were taken off one at a time to be rebuilt.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That is still the Bobs by taking advantage, I feel old school TWDC operations respected the "guest" by making the pricing reasonable? , in most minds, but now they just reach into your pocket without regard for how it may change your view of going to the parks. Once you feel they are not worth it you are done as a customer/guest. They may want that so they don't have to expand capacity but there is a tipping point where the "guests" just go elsewhere. Like spending 100 years of savings/goodwill in 10 years, once the bank is empty you find a golden pasture to run off to so you don't see the carnage left behind. Diznuts have a limit

This is the Bobs

and what i ever so “slightly” jibe the praetorians about…

pricing is not microeconomics at Disney. They aren’t AT&T…for them to continue to charge more and more and more…regardless of the changing face of the customer demographics…they have to drain their “emotional reservoir”

that is not what other business have and what truly makes them unique.

which means they have a safety net AND A very delicate balance that could turn catastrophic rather quickly with bad decisions or management.

disney has always been “expensive”….but few would label it a ripoff over the years…

if that were to happen…If they were to fall in line as just a bunch of short term, greedy hacks and it becomes the consumer consensus…there is no going back.

this BOD and management structure doesn’t seem to understand that…part of that responsibility was always to balance hedge funds and customers 10-20 years from now.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The Mark VIIs were not brand new. Look at the body, except the nose, and you will see that they are the same ones from the Mark V. One Mark V was scrapped but they were taken off one at a time to be rebuilt.

That’s a bit parsing though…

the chassis is the least important/functional part of any machine. If they were structurally sound and the systems were fabricated around them…there is no “mechanical fatigue” on that train.

which kinda points to the problems with an Disney monorail…they can’t order these things. The fact they have to continually rebuild them makes the system ultimately a dead train walking

 

[lazyboy97o]

That’s a bit parsing though…

the chassis is the least important/functional part of any machine. If they were structurally sound and the systems were fabricated around them…there is no “mechanical fatigue” on that train.

which kinda points to the problems with an Disney monorail…they can’t order these things. The fact they have to continually rebuild them makes the system ultimately a dead train walking

It doesn’t point to anything. The Walt Disney World monorail became a product that was sold and Bombardier could build more trains. They could also be custom manufactured if desired. Or, because there is no need for wholly new trains, they could be rebuilt. The steam locomotives were already decades only when they started running at Walt Disney World.

 

[John park hopper]

Ever watch the Restoration show on TV. He proves just about anything can be rebuilt and brought back to new condition and working. If Disney had the will the Monorail could be rebuilt but it seems Disney is content to patch when needed and that's good enough for the guests. I can remember the first time riding it back in 72 what a thrill it was--new, clean and working. Come on Disney the monorail is an icon of WDW

 

[bcoachable]

This is the Bobs

and what i ever so “slightly” jibe the praetorians about…

pricing is not microeconomics at Disney. They aren’t AT&T…for them to continue to charge more and more and more…regardless of the changing face of the customer demographics…they have to drain their “emotional reservoir”

that is not what other business have and what truly makes them unique.

which means they have a safety net AND A very delicate balance that could turn catastrophic rather quickly with bad decisions or management.

disney has always been “expensive”….but few would label it a ripoff over the years…

if that were to happen…If they were to fall in line as just a bunch of short term, greedy hacks and it becomes the consumer consensus…there is no going back.

this BOD and management structure don’t seem to understand that…part of that responsibility was always to balance hedge funds and customers 10-20 years from now.

Our family has decided the place is a rip off…. In its current state. (And I’m a tad bitter about it)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It doesn’t point to anything. The Walt Disney World monorail became a product that was sold and Bombardier could build more trains. They could also be custom manufactured if desired. Or, because there is no need for wholly new trains, they could be rebuilt. The steam locomotives were already decades only when they started running at Walt Disney World.

Ok…that is parsing…but generally I agree with most of your points

 

[Cesar R M]

Ever watch the Restoration show on TV. He proves just about anything can be rebuilt and brought back to new condition and working. If Disney had the will the Monorail could be rebuilt but it seems Disney is content to patch when needed and that's good enough for the guests. I can remember the first time riding it back in 72 what a thrill it was--new, clean and working. Come on Disney the monorail is an icon of WDW

Didn't they need to scrouge for rare parts or even build it themselves adding to the cost?

 

[the.dreamfinder]

It doesn’t point to anything. The Walt Disney World monorail became a product that was sold and Bombardier could build more trains. They could also be custom manufactured if desired. Or, because there is no need for wholly new trains, they could be rebuilt. The steam locomotives were already decades only when they started running at Walt Disney World.

But you wouldn’t be able to make the WDW monorail trains ADA compliant if you do a rebuild, right?

 

[John park hopper]

Didn't they need to scrouge for rare parts or even build it themselves adding to the cost?

The point is it is do able just takes the will. With todays computers and CNC machines making parts is not difficult. Disney can spend a ton of money buying up companies I would think they can get the Monorails back up to snuff

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The point is it is do able just takes the will. With todays computers and CNC machines making parts is not difficult. Disney can spend a ton of money buying up companies I would think they can get the Monorails back up to snuff

No…the point is they are 100% beholden to stock markets…which means that kind of overhead is no longer a sell.

and in case anyone wants to say “it was always that way”

no…it was not. Technology and “evolution” no longer makes this an option.

anyone believing “they’d never get rid of the monorail” is in for a rude awakening…if they live that long.

 

[Cesar R M]

The point is it is do able just takes the will. With todays computers and CNC machines making parts is not difficult. Disney can spend a ton of money buying up companies I would think they can get the Monorails back up to snuff

but..but.. executive bonus!.. synergy!

 

[lazyboy97o]

But you wouldn’t be able to make the WDW monorail trains ADA compliant if you do a rebuild, right?

My understanding is that the trains are compliant as they exist. Monorails are part of separate section that mostly references intercity rail cars for its standards but in terms of platform coordination says this: “ The design of cars shall be coordinated with the boarding platform design such that the horizontal gap between a car door at rest and the platform shall be no greater than 3 inches and the height of the car floor shall be within plus or minus 5/8 inch of the platform height under all normal passenger load conditions. Vertical alignment may be accomplished by car air suspension or other suitable means of meeting the requirement.” (1192.175).

My guess is the portable ramps suffice as “other suitable means.” Most of the standards are built around individual cars, not entire trains, and we didn’t see changes made for Monorail Peach which has either new or substantially rebuilt nose cars (I don’t recall which).

The main standards for intercity rail cars also have exceptions for new and rebuilt cars operating at existing stations. My understanding is that the only issue on the trains preventing level loading is the doors but they could be changed to a different design that didn’t drop down. The far bigger issue would be rebuilding the platforms. Just raising the platforms would require rebuilding the exist stairs and ramps at the Transportation and Ticket Center. Trying to ramp up to the trains would require very precise work to meet slope and cross slope requirements. That’s a lot of work which is why the various ADA design guidelines have a variety of exceptions for existing conditions.

 

[Robbiem]

My understanding is that the trains are compliant as they exist. Monorails are part of separate section that mostly references intercity rail cars for its standards but in terms of platform coordination says this: “ The design of cars shall be coordinated with the boarding platform design such that the horizontal gap between a car door at rest and the platform shall be no greater than 3 inches and the height of the car floor shall be within plus or minus 5/8 inch of the platform height under all normal passenger load conditions. Vertical alignment may be accomplished by car air suspension or other suitable means of meeting the requirement.” (1192.175).

My guess is the portable ramps suffice as “other suitable means.” Most of the standards are built around individual cars, not entire trains, and we didn’t see changes made for Monorail Peach which has either new or substantially rebuilt nose cars (I don’t recall which).

The main standards for intercity rail cars also have exceptions for new and rebuilt cars operating at existing stations. My understanding is that the only issue on the trains preventing level loading is the doors but they could be changed to a different design that didn’t drop down. The far bigger issue would be rebuilding the platforms. Just raising the platforms would require rebuilding the exist stairs and ramps at the Transportation and Ticket Center. Trying to ramp up to the trains would require very precise work to meet slope and cross slope requirements. That’s a lot of work which is why the various ADA design guidelines have a variety of exceptions for existing conditions.

That sounds right to me. I’m not sure about the ADA but UK law is similar. You can provide wheelchair access by either physically altering things (platform and train floor height) to provide a permanent solution or you can use a ramp. Both have pros and cons. Ramps are cheaper but require staff to deploy and allow different height trains to use the same platforms. They also take time to use so can upset services on metros by delaying train departure. Physical solutions are more expensive but allow less able people to travel without assistance. They tend to be more expensive and disruptive to install

I think ramps would be an OK solution in WDW if wheelchair users use a designated car staff can be ready at the exit station to keep things moving smoothly.

The Mark VIIs were not brand new. Look at the body, except the nose, and you will see that they are the same ones from the Mark V. One Mark V was scrapped but they were taken off one at a time to be rebuilt.

Couldnt Disney do this is Florida? Rebuild the trains on the existing chassis so they are as ‘new’ as the ones in Disneyland