Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Andrew C]

Updates out of Texas, as an example of how another large state with minimal mandated mitigation is doing...although the state definitely has has high spread, which of course caused issues, it seems Florida levels will be avoided, for now...

-Positivity rate has been on the decline for 20 days now. 7 day average peak for molecular tests was 18.71% this month. Down to 14.78%. Still high, but continues to trend down.
-Hospitalizations have peaked (peaked just below the January high) and have started to decline for the first time. We will see if this holds.
-7 day average for cases also continuing to decline.
-Doesn't look like deaths have peaked yet. But that is expected as it is typically a lagging indicator.
-Vaccination rates continue to pick up a bit, especially since delta took over.
-Overall, still a good way to go...

 

[disneygeek90]

Your FIL’s story matches what we see here in the ground in central FL as well. Two principals, two program directors and several teachers (edited to add: at my kids’ schools alone) all made the difficult choice to retire because they were at the point where they were past the point of exhaustion and simply had nothing left to give. Florida’s public schools are still full of incredible educators who are giving their all for our kids. It’s a shame that placing hardships on public schools, their teachers and students here at every available opportunity seems to be a way of life for some officials who really should know better.

My friend my age is about to resign from his South FL elementary job, and leave teaching altogether. He hasn't been happy in quite some time and covid has pretty much pushed him over the edge.

As of last week, his entire class was in quarantine.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I really wonder... are the people shouting about mask mandates at these school board meetings happy about the current situation? Are they OK with this kind of educational disruption caused by the quarantines? What do they think is the alternative that would keep their kids healthy and in class, since obviously the default no-mask mandate isn't working? And is this group really large enough that the governor thinks his political future will be secured if he appeases them?

 

[Andrew C]

I really wonder... are the people shouting about mask mandates at these school board meetings happy about the current situation? Are they OK with this kind of educational disruption caused by the quarantines? What do they think is the alternative that would keep their kids healthy and in class, since obviously the default no-mask mandate isn't working? And is this group really large enough that the governor thinks his political future will be secured if he appeases them?

Florida should probably have or allow for some type of virtual option based on spread so that kids in quarantine can continue to learn, or parents who don't want to send kids to school still have an option. Probably need both options available for at least the first semester, although I think in-person should be the default as much as possible.

 

[mmascari]

I really wonder... are the people shouting about mask mandates at these school board meetings happy about the current situation? Are they OK with this kind of educational disruption caused by the quarantines? What do they think is the alternative that would keep their kids healthy and in class, since obviously the default no-mask mandate isn't working? And is this group really large enough that the governor thinks his political future will be secured if he appeases them?

A friend of ours in NJ had a school board meeting that sounded exactly the same. They didn't go in person, on the assumption that most of the unmasked screaming people were also not vaccinated.

The concept seems to be wishful thinking and simply ignoring COVID. No masks because they don't like them is all. Taken as if the mask was a thing in isolation. Like fighting a requirement that you have to wear pants instead of shorts while shorts would be better when it's hot out.

It's like arguing that steal toe boots aren't needed on a dangerous manufacturing floor because the steal toe boots aren't comfortable. That they protect you from injury isn't part of the decision at all. Or, hard hats on a construction site.

 

[correcaminos]

There are currently only two fully FDA approved medications for the prevention and treatment of COVID 19:

1. The Pfizer Vaccine for adults >18 years old

2. Remdesivir-an antiviral iv medication given 1 a day for 5 days for anyone hospitalized with Covid.

Every other therapy is given via an EUA (monoclonal antibodies, other vaccines) or is off label (dexamethasone, IL-6 inhibitors, ivermectin, hydroxychorolquine, etc.) If you are restricting yourself to only therapies fully authorized by the FDA for treatment of Covid 19 you only have two options, and remdesivir has its best chance of working when it’s paired with dexamethasone, which again is only given off label based on observational studies and the knowledge that steroid treatment usually improve lung inflammation (it’s the drug class we treat asthma and COPD exacerbation s with.)

It's actually for 16+

FDA Approves First COVID-19 Vaccine

FDA approved the first COVID-19 vaccine, now marketed as Comirnaty, for the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older.

www.fda.gov

This is why I don't understand the political based hesitancy/refusal. The prior administration promoted "Operation Warp Speed" like crazy and publicly lamented that the EUA came after election day.

I could maybe understand it if people were being forced to take it by the Government. It's such a strange thing to pick to make a political statement on when all the science says that, at worst it will make you extremely unlikely to get a severe, life threatening case of COVID at least for several months at a time.

That's not to say that the CDC doesn't look like a bunch of bumbling idiots when they change guidelines for the vaccinated after two months. However, unlike other mitigations, the scientific data on the protection offered by the vaccines is very consistent. The duration of that protection is the changing part but nobody could know the duration until at least the trial participants got to certain dates after the injections.

As I've said many times, if you are not vaccinated, get vaccinated. If you know people or have family members who aren't vaccinated, convince them to get vaccinated. Not to "protect others" or "do the right thing" but to protect yourself and make it so that if you get COVID your worst case scenario will almost definitely be like having the flu.

Here's the problem with this, the do it for selfish reasons only doesn't work and it doesn't help as much as a whole. Vaccines work best when around other vaccinated individuals. Saying "do it for you" ignores that and places the burden on the vaccinated. Plus the selfish only people (vs those who do it for others and themselves) simply say "it won't happen to me" and not vaccinate. We can give them the article that a hospital worker friend of mine posted and they still won't care. I never vaccinated for just me.... nor did I vaccinate my son just for him. We did it for all. What is wrong with us that we cannot see it isn't just for selfish reasons? Not at you specifically, but a generic us.

Contributor: On the front lines, here's what the seven stages of severe COVID-19 look like

A respiratory therapist's view of how the worst cases of COVID fare. They rarely end well.

www.latimes.com

 

[Touchdown]

It's actually for 16+

FDA Approves First COVID-19 Vaccine

FDA approved the first COVID-19 vaccine, now marketed as Comirnaty, for the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older.

www.fda.gov

Here's the problem with this, the do it for selfish reasons doesn't work and it doesn't help as much as a whole. Vaccines work best when around other vaccinated individuals. Saying "do it for you" ignores that and places the burden on the vaccinatex. Plus the selfish only people simply say "it won't happen to me" and not vaccinate. We can give them the article that a hospital worker friend of mine posted and they still won't care. I never vaccinated for me.... nor did I vaccinate my son just for him. We did it for all. What is wrong with us that we cannot see it isn't just for selfish reasons? Not at you specifically, but a generic us.

Contributor: On the front lines, here's what the seven stages of severe COVID-19 look like

A respiratory therapist's view of how the worst cases of COVID fare. They rarely end well.

www.latimes.com

What’s wrong with and? I don’t want this disease and will do my part, within reason, to prevent me getting it.

I also don’t want this ripping through society and am willing to do my part to prevent it.

 

[correcaminos]

What’s wrong with and? I don’t want this disease and will do my part, within reason, to prevent me getting it.

I also don’t want this ripping through society and am willing to do my part to prevent it.

Nothing wrong with both together. I've said so many times looking at this singularly won't help us end it and that's proving right. You can do it for you, but having the discussion only about you is what I dislike. I have never vaccinated for the singular, but for the whole. The fact that people make it only singularly viewed is a big problem right now with vaccinated reluctance. It's all about "me me me" and only that. It's child-like and hurtful. So my remark is about how selfish we've become and how for many solidifying that it should be selfish won't change a thing. I'll edit above too, to make it clear since I see I left out a just and an only.

 

[Heppenheimer]

It's actually for 16+

FDA Approves First COVID-19 Vaccine

FDA approved the first COVID-19 vaccine, now marketed as Comirnaty, for the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older.

www.fda.gov

Here's the problem with this, the do it for selfish reasons doesn't work and it doesn't help as much as a whole. Vaccines work best when around other vaccinated individuals. Saying "do it for you" ignores that and places the burden on the vaccinatex. Plus the selfish only people simply say "it won't happen to me" and not vaccinate. We can give them the article that a hospital worker friend of mine posted and they still won't care. I never vaccinated for me.... nor did I vaccinate my son just for him. We did it for all. What is wrong with us that we cannot see it isn't just for selfish reasons? Not at you specifically, but a generic us.

Contributor: On the front lines, here's what the seven stages of severe COVID-19 look like

A respiratory therapist's view of how the worst cases of COVID fare. They rarely end well.

www.latimes.com

That linked article from the respiratory therapist needs to be on every single Facebook feed in this country.

Unfortunately, it will go against what the talking picture box has told many people, so they'll likely ignore it.

 

[correcaminos]

That linked article from the respiratory therapist needs to be on every single Facebook feed in this country.

Unfortunately, it will go against what the talking picture box has told many people, so they'll likely ignore it.

Sadly yes. It was heart breaking to read especially knowing the stages my one friend went through before he died (last year, no vaccine). Small hospital so no ECMO - but the rest was exactly the stages he went through.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I really wonder... are the people shouting about mask mandates at these school board meetings happy about the current situation? Are they OK with this kind of educational disruption caused by the quarantines? What do they think is the alternative that would keep their kids healthy and in class, since obviously the default no-mask mandate isn't working? And is this group really large enough that the governor thinks his political future will be secured if he appeases them?

I don’t think they want students quarantining either. The anti-mask thing also seems to come at least with the “it doesn’t effect children” line not to mention the more ridiculous ideas such as masks causing brain damage. A lot of these places, including Florida, have also removed the option of virtual learning. It’s kids and faculty, in person, without masks no matter what.

 

[DisneyCane]

It's actually for 16+

FDA Approves First COVID-19 Vaccine

FDA approved the first COVID-19 vaccine, now marketed as Comirnaty, for the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older.

www.fda.gov

Here's the problem with this, the do it for selfish reasons only doesn't work and it doesn't help as much as a whole. Vaccines work best when around other vaccinated individuals. Saying "do it for you" ignores that and places the burden on the vaccinated. Plus the selfish only people (vs those who do it for others and themselves) simply say "it won't happen to me" and not vaccinate. We can give them the article that a hospital worker friend of mine posted and they still won't care. I never vaccinated for just me.... nor did I vaccinate my son just for him. We did it for all. What is wrong with us that we cannot see it isn't just for selfish reasons? Not at you specifically, but a generic us.

Contributor: On the front lines, here's what the seven stages of severe COVID-19 look like

A respiratory therapist's view of how the worst cases of COVID fare. They rarely end well.

www.latimes.com

Many of the people I'm talking about don't want to hear that they should do it to help others. My point was to motivate them to do it for themselves because getting the Delta variant can turn out to be very serious for somewhat healthy younger people a lot more often than the prior variants. If they do it for themselves it still gets more people vaccinated and helps others accidentally.

 

[correcaminos]

Many of the people I'm talking about don't want to hear that they should do it to help others. My point was to motivate them to do it for themselves because getting the Delta variant can turn out to be very serious for somewhat healthy younger people a lot more often than the prior variants. If they do it for themselves it still gets more people vaccinated and helps others accidentally.

Call me cynical but I think you are thinking too highly of these people. The Delta variant hasn't driven near enough yet and articles like I posted do nothing. Now the only thing that will is mandates.

 

[sullyinMT]

Sadly yes. It was heart breaking to read especially knowing the stages my one friend went through before he died (last year, no vaccine). Small hospital so no ECMO - but the rest was exactly the stages he went through.

We provide ECMO, but only for 24 hours. The county as a whole, across two hospitals, has 4 circuits and 7 perfusionists. It’s incredibly man-hour intensive for a small cardiac program like both of ours. And without large-scale use, ICU nursing and RT staffs never learn enough to relieve perfusionists of the burden of management. So you either cancel cardiac cases or don’t offer the service if one of our joint receiving centers (Univ of Utah or a smattering of Denver hospitals) don’t have room. We’ve had to let more than one patient go because of this.

Oh, and we have zero pediatric disposables, cardiologists, or CV surgeons to even make it a possibility to initiate kids. And people wonder why we’d want to mask kids. Which policy, masks or hope they survive a flight to Seattle Children’s, is more abusive to children?

OK, rant over.

 

[sullyinMT]

Many of the people I'm talking about don't want to hear that they should do it to help others. My point was to motivate them to do it for themselves because getting the Delta variant can turn out to be very serious for somewhat healthy younger people a lot more often than the prior variants. If they do it for themselves it still gets more people vaccinated and helps others accidentally.

I actually just last week finally convinced a buddy (wives are close, we’re cordial but not quite friends), to get the shot. He’s been “me not we” all along. What finally convinced him? I asked if he’d want his wife and two daughters under 7 to receive the call that he was on a fixed wing flight to SLC, leaving them behind to pray he survived. He hadn’t thought of it like that, supposedly.

She’s vaccinated, has been since it opened to GP, and was at wit’s end with him. Just couldn’t see beyond himself and his young age.

 

[correcaminos]

We provide ECMO, but only for 24 hours. The county as a whole, across two hospitals, has 4 circuits and 7 perfusionists. It’s incredibly man-hour intensive for a small cardiac program like both of ours. And without large-scale use, ICU nursing and RT staffs never learn enough to relieve perfusionists of the burden of management. So you either cancel cardiac cases or don’t offer the service if one of our joint receiving centers (Univ of Utah or a smattering of Denver hospitals) don’t have room. We’ve had to let more than one patient go because of this.

Oh, and we have zero pediatric disposables, cardiologists, or CV surgeons to even make it a possibility to initiate kids. And people wonder why we’d want to mask kids. Which policy, masks or hope they survive a flight to Seattle Children’s, is more abusive to children?

OK, rant over.

I am so sorry. One of my dear friends is a perfusionists and I hear the stories in their hospital. It's heartbreaking.

 

[Andrew C]

I find it curious that some think allowing for mask mandates in Florida schools would have done anything to curb the negative trends that many districts have seen. This is the highly contagious delta we are talking about. This ain't alpha like last school year. Now, if you mandated vaccines for all teachers and staff, upgraded HVAC systems where necessary for improved air flow, cancelled all extra curricular activities, allowed for virtual options, and were able to actually have some form of legit social distancing while at school...that would probably move the needle. At this point, I also think vaccines should mandated for kids at public schools as soon as possible. You can already get the ball rolling with the 16 and up group. No need to hesitate on this...it is the best form of mitigation available. Everyone wants to talk about the two options are masks or do nothing. False choice. I am more interested in the options that can have a significant impact when dealing with delta at school.

 

[DCBaker]

 

[Nubs70]

My company has made it clears it’s a personal choice also, while dangling dozens of carrots in front of people trying to entice them to get the vaccine since it directly affects our occupancy rates, I’ve also noticed a serious uptick in write ups in the last few weeks that seem to be hitting the few remaining unvaccinated holdouts disproportionately hard.

It seems our management team doesn’t want the headache of forcing medical decisions on employees but it also seems pretty clear certain people are currently under a microscope, it’s pretty easy to find a reason to fire people if you look hard enough.

This could be considered "constructive discharge" which is not covered under At Will statutes.

 

[GoofGoof]

I find it curious that some think allowing for mask mandates in Florida schools would have done anything to curb the negative trends that many districts have seen. This is the highly contagious delta we are talking about. This ain't alpha like last school year. Now, if you mandated vaccines for all teachers and staff, upgraded HVAC systems where necessary for improved air flow, cancelled all extra curricular activities, allowed for virtual options, and were able to actually have some form of legit social distancing while at school...that would probably move the needle. At this point, I also think vaccines should mandated for kids at public schools as soon as possible. You can already get the ball rolling with the 16 and up group. No need to hesitate on this...it is the best form of mitigation available. Everyone wants to talk about the two options are masks or do nothing. False choice. I am more interested in the options that can have a significant impact when dealing with delta at school.

In places where community spread is low enough and proper distancing is possible and practical it’s possible that masks in schools would not be needed. We were prepared to start our school year with masks optional for all students when our case numbers were 0.5 per 100K people and our percent positive was well below 1%. Then delta came and that changed everything. Our district pivoted to masks for all students and is evaluating additional mitigations. The key is the ability to be flexible and pivot. It’s tragic that so many people think of covid in only linear terms. Once masks were dropped they think they should never come back. It’s foolish and short sighted. It’s proven that masks aren’t perfect or even highly effective, but they clearly are much better than nothing. For lack of a better option kids should be wearing masks in school. I’d rather have them all vaccinated and cases way down, but that’s not the reality we live in.