Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[TrainsOfDisney]

If vacinated people still need to wear masks and distance though.... why do we need to keep unvaccinated people out of theme parks and concert venues?

 

[lazyboy97o]

If vacinated people still need to wear masks and distance though.... why do we need to keep unvaccinated people out of theme parks and concert venues?

Because there is still an order of magnitude of difference and mostly unvaccinated people are filling up hospitals.

 

[sullyinMT]

If vacinated people still need to wear masks and distance though.... why do we need to keep unvaccinated people out of theme parks and concert venues?

Because the reason the vaccinated need to do those things is to do exactly what was preached all along. Protect the most vulnerable - except now the most vulnerable are the unvaccinated and they largely stopped doing the very thing keeping them safe until they received a vaccine (masks, distancing) and cases/hospitalizations/deaths stopped their steep decline.

It wasn’t until things were clearly on their way to out of hand again that the vaccinated were asked to chip in with the minor step of indoor masking for just a while longer.

So, if the most vulnerable (unvaccinated) aren’t present at a venue/theme park/nightclub/cruise ship, the relative risk is remarkably lower for vaccinated gatherings. Especially once this wave breaks and we get below our previous June lows again.

 

[GoofGoof]

If vacinated people still need to wear masks and distance though.... why do we need to keep unvaccinated people out of theme parks and concert venues?

Masks are no replacement for being vaccinated. It’s not an either/or.

 

[Chi84]

There's a world of difference between study and real world application. V1.0 of anything should be viewed skeptically until trust can be proven. That trust may take weeks, months, or years of analyzing results.

What exactly are you waiting for and for how long? What specific questions or concerns do you have concerning the science behind these vaccines?

 

[lazyboy97o]

It’s funny how so many who claim the vaccines are under studied will also push gobbling up supplements that all too often rely on being unstudied so they can make nebulous claims.

 

[Chi84]

It’s funny how so many who claim the vaccines are under studied will also push gobbling up supplements that all too often rely on being unstudied so they can make nebulous claims.

This is ridiculous. The world’s best scientists have come up with vaccines that are highly effective against COVID and millions of people have gotten the vaccines. If you’re going to question the vaccines, shouldn’t you have to come up with some type of intelligent questions or objections? Is it now acceptable for people to just say - with no basis whatsoever - that the vaccines haven’t been sufficiently studied or that there may be some unspecified problems that come up if we just sit around and wait for an undetermined time?

 

[GenerationX]

Nobody will be forced to be vaccinated, but if you want to spend weeks, months or years analyzing vaccine results then don’t expect to be able to do everything you want to do. If you want to work for a growing number of companies (including Disney) or go on a cruise or do a growing number of things at public venues you will need to be vaccinated. It’s up to people to decide if the “risk” of being vaccinated is worth the reward.

You are correct.

What exactly are you waiting for and for how long? What specific questions or concerns do you have concerning the science behind these vaccines?

The mRNA and J&J vaccines are (briefly) teaching your body to make (harmless) spike proteins that your body is then going to fight. This concept in and of itself gives me pause. I don't believe the six-week standard for vaccine adverse reactions is enough to build trust in this particular case. It's a promising start, no doubt, and the VAERS reports should continue to be researched.

The Novavax vaccine is built on standard, "tried and true" vaccine technologies. This is one I could trust out of the gate.

 

[GimpYancIent]

It’s funny how so many who claim the vaccines are under studied will also push gobbling up supplements that all too often rely on being unstudied so they can make nebulous claims.

To be fair the speedy development of the COVID19 vaccines has been truly mind boggling. Historically 5 to 10 years lapse before a vaccine is developed / approved and deployed for use. That is a substantial amount of time that elapses while many people suffer and die waiting for the approved vaccine. It is amazing effective vaccines were developed, available and being dispensed in the brief span of time since COVID19 first appeared. Speed also scares many people. There are many fence sitters out there that truly believe they are being prudent in waiting and seeing before partaking of the vaccines. Many pro-vaccination folks pushing to force or scare people into vaccinating are actually being counter productive and reinforcing the reasons for the Wait and See attitude and getting the no-vax folks to dig in their heels. Everyone does not adapt nor accept change at the same pace or way.

 

[Chi84]

You are correct.


The mRNA and J&J vaccines are (briefly) teaching your body to make (harmless) spike proteins that your body is then going to fight. This concept in and of itself gives me pause. I don't believe the six-week standard for vaccine adverse reactions is enough to build trust in this particular case. It's a promising start, no doubt, and the VAERS reports should continue to be researched.

The Novavax vaccine is built on standard, "tried and true" vaccine technologies. This is one I could trust out of the gate.

Okay, but what causes you to believe the studies, which have been extensive, are not enough to build trust in this particular case? What is it that you question about the timeframe chosen by the vaccine makers?

 

[GenerationX]

Okay, but what causes you to believe the studies, which have been extensive, are not enough to build trust in this particular case? What is it that you question about the timeframe chosen by the vaccine makers?

Studies are wonderful, but I want to see years of real world results when you are introducing something of this magnitude. Make no mistake, this could end up being a truly great technology. Time will tell.

 

[lazyboy97o]

To be fair the speedy development of the COVID19 vaccines has been truly mind boggling. Historically 5 to 10 years lapse before a vaccine is developed / approved and deployed for use. That is a substantial amount of time that elapses while many people suffer and die waiting for the approved vaccine. It is amazing effective vaccines were developed, available and being dispensed in the brief span of time since COVID19 first appeared. Speed also scares many people. There are many fence sitters out there that truly believe they are being prudent in waiting and seeing before partaking of the vaccines. Many pro-vaccination folks pushing to force or scare people into vaccinating are actually being counter productive and reinforcing the reasons for the Wait and See attitude and getting the no-vax folks to dig in their heels. Everyone does not adapt nor accept change at the same pace or way.

People think they are being prudent because we have respected anti-vaxxers and now their lies are so mainstream that they are widely accepted as reasonable. The whole issue of long term affects is made up.

 

[Chi84]

To be fair the speedy development of the COVID19 vaccines has been truly mind boggling. Historically 5 to 10 years lapse before a vaccine is developed / approved and deployed for use. That is a substantial amount of time that elapses while many people suffer and die waiting for the approved vaccine. It is amazing effective vaccines were developed, available and being dispensed in the brief span of time since COVID19 first appeared. Speed also scares many people. There are many fence sitters out there that truly believe they are being prudent in waiting and seeing before partaking of the vaccines. Many pro-vaccination folks pushing to force or scare people into vaccinating are actually being counter productive and reinforcing the reasons for the Wait and See attitude and getting the no-vax folks to dig in their heels. Everyone does not adapt nor accept change at the same pace or way.

It’s true that speed alone may scare some people, but if they can’t formulate intelligent reasons for their fear, we may not be able to wait for them. The impact of this virus is too devastating. At this point, I’m starting to think that employer mandates and vaccine passports may be necessary - we can’t cater to people who have no reason for avoiding the vaccine other than “I want to wait for years” with no intelligent reason for waiting.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Studies are wonderful, but I want to see years of real world results when you are introducing something of this magnitude. Make no mistake, this could end up being a truly great technology. Time will tell.

What makes a person in a study different from one not in a study? What is the mechanism by which mRNA that has long since been used cause a problem?

 

[GenerationX]

It’s true that speed alone may scare some people, but if they can’t formulate intelligent reasons for their fear, we may not be able to wait for them. The impact of this virus is too devastating. At this point, I’m starting to think that employer mandates and vaccine passports may be necessary - we can’t cater to people who have no reason for avoiding the vaccine other than “I want to wait for years” with no intelligent reason for waiting.

V1.0.

What makes a person in a study different from one not in a study? What is the mechanism by which mRNA that has long since been used cause a problem?

Studies are much smaller numbers of participants than real world applications.

 

[lazyboy97o]

V1.0.


Studies are much smaller numbers of participants than real world applications.

So you are just going to hide behind “something could happen” and not present a plausible issue?

 

[GimpYancIent]

People think they are being prudent because we have respected anti-vaxxers and now their lies are so mainstream that they are widely accepted as reasonable. The whole issue of long term affects is made up.

Long term effects? A long term has not passed yet! Everything is evolving as we speak. What is known is that short term the vaccines have proven effective, long term will become known as time passes. Yes, the vaccines are the most effective tool available to combat this illness but there is no long term history and it is normal for people to question and doubt. To attack people and say they lie rather than simply present facts that debunk the wrong assertions is unnecessarily abrasive and counter productive.

 

[GimpYancIent]

So you are just going to hide behind “something could happen” and not present a plausible issue?

All sides have been doing that. Give me a break.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Long term effects? A long term has not passed yet! Everything is evolving as we speak. What is known is that short term the vaccines have proven effective, long term will become known as time passes. Yes, the vaccines are the most effective tool available to combat this illness but there is no long term history and it is normal for people to question and doubt. To attack people and say they lie rather than simply present facts that debunk the wrong assertions is unnecessarily abrasive and counter productive.

Anti-vaxxers do lie. There is no means by which a vaccine could cause a problem several months or years later. The reason it is a concern is because anti-vaxxers have lied about every vaccine having long term issues. People are starting with bad information pushed by liars.

 

[GenerationX]

So you are just going to hide behind “something could happen” and not present a plausible issue?

Yes, something could happen. It could be the body gets good at making the spike proteins and just keeps doing it, even after the instructions have dissolved. Or, it makes so many it overwhelms the immune system. I don't know all of the combinations and permutations of what could happen when you introduce a radical new concept into your body, but I know I'd need time to see what they are or aren't before I trusted it. Because of the novelty of the approach, that trust will take time.