Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[correcaminos]

As a 30 year old, the last thing I want is to catch Covid with zero built up protection. I’ve gotten this far without getting it, I do not want that risk.

While I may get through it just fine if I catch it, I fear the long term effects much more, knowing that is a higher risk than serious hospitalized illness.

But then I also fear being a Nick Cordero.

I know many who felt the same as you do. Hard to believe if was a year ago

 

[GoofGoof]

We are in a really weird place right now. There’s people that think everyone should get the vaccine. No room for any discussion. Ask a question, you’re anti-vaccine!

There’s people that think the vaccine is some sort of political plot. No room for any discussion. Ask a question, you’re a brain-washed liberal!

And there’s people that have very legit questions on both sides of that line.

The cases of myocarditis are real. I was concerned when I heard about them in Israel and now they are showing up here. I don’t think they should be ignored.

There are also people who reviewed all of the available information, assessed the risk of the vaccines vs the risk of actual covid infection and then concluded that everyone should get the vaccine. You are making it out like the people like me who are saying everyone should get the vaccine never questioned anything and are just blindly saying get the vaccine.

The cases of myocarditis with mRNA vaccines are real, the case of blood clots with JnJ are real, the cases of anaphylaxis with all 3 vaccines are real too. With natural covid infection the hospitalization and death is real, the myocarditis is real and in all the studies I have seen much more common with Covid infection than with the vaccines, the long haulers are real, the blood clot issues and long term heart, lung and mental issues with Covid are real too. When I put it all together it’s a no brainer to me that the vaccine is a far better choice than playing Russian roulette with Covid infection. Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions, but that doesn’t mean others are not questioning anything or considering the decision.

All this being said we haven’t even touched on people’s responsibility to society and the world at large. Yes, there is some risk with the vaccines, but without them we would experience years of disruption and countless additional deaths. Leaving too many people unvaccinated leaves the door open for mutations and further unnecessary spread. Best to beat the virus down now.

 

[havoc315]

It kinda does. If we set a goal above the level we can ever reach then by default the mitigations never end. That’s fine if people think that’s the way to go. I don’t agree.

I have said for some time now that we should have set a vaccination target (like 70% of adults) but primarily as a means to get cases to the level they need to be at. Relaxing mitigations should be about cases and community spread and not solely based on percent vaccinated. There is another way to get immune besides the vaccine….some people are electing the hard way. Not much I can do to stop them.

Between cycling variants and the limited duration of natural immunity, you’ll. Ever get there the hard way. Meaning, we need permanent mitigation. Again, there are many different types of mitigation. It’s not masks vs nothing.
Mitigation includes investing in long term surveillance and contact tracing. Includes testing for cruises and international travel. Etc etc.


I’ve constantly said it’s fine to have “targets” but I never cared about a specific number. If you could get herd immunity at 60%, then 60% would be fine. If you don’t get herd immunity until 80%, then we need 80%.

Personally, I think any adult not vaccinated shouldn’t be allowed on public transportation or in venues like Disney World. But we don’t have the resolve for rules like that.

 

[Heppenheimer]

And this is why I'm asking for clarification from those in the know...myocarditis is inflammation...the article said his heart was enlarged...medically, I would think those would mean different things?

I don't know what this is referencing, but an enlarged heart means either congestive heart failure or a cardiomyopathy (or a well-trained athlete). Myocarditis doesn't cause heart enlargement.

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't know what this is referencing, but an enlarged heart means either congestive heart failure or a cardiomyopathy (or a well-trained athlete). Myocarditis doesn't cause heart enlargement.

In the case of the kid that passed away this is what they were referencing:

The family was told that preliminary autopsy findings suggest Jacob's heart was enlarged when he died and there was fluid around his heart, Burages said.

CDC investigating death of Michigan boy who died days after getting Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine

A 13-year-old Saginaw County boy died three days after getting his second dose of a COVID-19 vaccine. Now, the CDC is investigating.

news.yahoo.com

 

[correcaminos]

I don't know what this is referencing, but an enlarged heart means either congestive heart failure or a cardiomyopathy (or a well-trained athlete). Myocarditis doesn't cause heart enlargement.

In regards to the 13yo who died 3 days after 2nd dose. He had an enlarged heart and fluid build up around the heart too. CDC will look into it of course, but you can imagine what some are doing with the story.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I don't know what this is referencing, but an enlarged heart means either congestive heart failure or a cardiomyopathy (or a well-trained athlete). Myocarditis doesn't cause heart enlargement.

Thank you!

Someone posted an article above in which a young teen (may he RIP) passed in his sleep 3 days after getting his second shot. The article mentioned that the autopsy revealed an enlarged heart with fluid around it (but there's no official cause of death as of yet).

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Personally, I think any adult not vaccinated shouldn’t be allowed on public transportation or in venues like Disney World. But we don’t have the resolve for rules like that.

Transit is a bit iffy but entertainment venues and indoor dining? Absolutely.

 

[GoofGoof]

Between cycling variants and the limited duration of natural immunity, you’ll. Ever get there the hard way. Meaning, we need permanent mitigation. Again, there are many different types of mitigation. It’s not masks vs nothing.
Mitigation includes investing in long term surveillance and contact tracing. Includes testing for cruises and international travel. Etc etc.


I’ve constantly said it’s fine to have “targets” but I never cared about a specific number. If you could get hers immunity at 60%, then 60% would be fine. If you don’t get herd immunity until 80%, then we need 80%.

Personally, I think any adult not vaccinated shouldn’t be allowed on public transportation or in venues like Disney World. But we don’t have the resolve for rules like that.

Implementing something like that would rip this country apart. Covid is the primary concern right now, but there is more to governing and setting public policy than just public health. The best plan of action to get us out of this pandemic is to thread the needle and get as many people vaccinated as possible. I don’t think attempting to ban unvaccinated people from every day activity will help that cause and if we did take that approach it’s very likely we would have less people vaccinated today and much more civil unrest.

 

[correcaminos]

Transit is a bit iffy but entertainment venues and indoor dining? Absolutely.

I'm not okay with transit. There are legitimate reasons why to delay or not vaccinate. I never want to punish those people. Venues? I don't care anymore if they do. Though a true good cause and effect is show vaccine or wear masks like I saw on cruises.

 

[GoofGoof]

I'm not okay with transit. There are legitimate reasons why to delay or not vaccinate. I never want to punish those people. Venues? I don't care anymore if they do. Though a true good cause and effect is show vaccine or wear masks like I saw on cruises.

I think our best opportunity was to recommend or even require employers to only allow fully vaccinated workers to drop masks and require that the employer ask for proof of vaccination. This way nobody is fired and anyone who doesn’t want to be vaccinated or doesn’t want to show proof can still earn a living but they just keep wearing a mask at work. That would have kept unvaccinated people “more safe” at work where most people spend the majority of their awake time with public contact and would have encouraged many to get the vaccine too. Those in the vaccinated group wouldn’t need to continue an unnecessary mitigation.

For example a store like Target could make the rule that customers can enter without a mask if they are fully vaccinated but they are on the honor system (what most places did do) but if they required their employees show proof of vaccination to drop masks then only fully vaccinated employees would have dropped masks. So an unvaccinated employee still wears a mask 8+ hours a day working at Target but can “lie“ and go maskless in the grocery store or at Home Depot. They spend 40+ hours a week in Target at work but only a few hours a week in Home Depot or at the grocery store. Great bang for your buck in keeping unvaccinated people masked without forcing a passport system for everyday life. Since most workers are at will employees there is not much of an issue with requiring this. Not much different than requiring a background check or drug test. That would have been my plan. I think we might have hit 75% of adults vaccinated and be heading towards 80% if that policy was universally adopted.

 

[DisneyCane]

And meanwhile, there are those of us who are vaccinated yet immunocompromised who have been given a 70% vax rate as the goal for when we can take off our masks indoors.

This should be a team effort, yet sadly it’s not. And I am reaallllly getting tired of the looks I get wearing my masks indoors.

I've done what I can personally to convince people to get vaccinated. I hope we get to 70% of the population but it isn't looking great outside of a few states.

I don't know why people give you looks. I despise masks and I don't give anybody looks or grief if they are wearing one. As long as I don't have to wear one, whatever somebody else does doesn't really affect me. Now, the people alone in a car wearing one I'll chuckle a little but I still don't direct anything at them.

 

[Heppenheimer]

In the case of the kid that passed away this is what they were referencing:

The family was told that preliminary autopsy findings suggest Jacob's heart was enlarged when he died and there was fluid around his heart, Burages said.

CDC investigating death of Michigan boy who died days after getting Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine

A 13-year-old Saginaw County boy died three days after getting his second dose of a COVID-19 vaccine. Now, the CDC is investigating.

news.yahoo.com

Sounds like a pre-existing condition. Hearts don't suddenly enlarge from inflammation. It takes decades of abuse from high blood pressure, drugs or alcohol.

 

[sullyinMT]

Sounds like a pre-existing condition. Hearts don't suddenly enlarge from inflammation. It takes decades of abuse from high blood pressure, drugs or alcohol.

Yep, or bad reporting. Enlarged as in inflamed (endo- or myocarditis), “fluid around the heart” from pericarditis, or cardiomegaly/cardiomyopathy from other causes (a truly “enlarged” heart)? Like you said, the later is not likely within 3 days’ time.

 

[correcaminos]

I think our best opportunity was to recommend or even require employers to only allow fully vaccinated workers to drop masks and require that the employer ask for proof of vaccination. This way nobody is fired and anyone who doesn’t want to be vaccinated or doesn’t want to show proof can still earn a living but they just keep wearing a mask at work. That would have kept unvaccinated people “more safe” at work where most people spend the majority of their awake time with public contact and would have encouraged many to get the vaccine too. Those in the vaccinated group wouldn’t need to continue an unnecessary mitigation.

For example a store like Target could make the rule that customers can enter without a mask if they are fully vaccinated but they are on the honor system (what most places did do) but if they required their employees show proof of vaccination to drop masks then only fully vaccinated employees would have dropped masks. So an unvaccinated employee still wears a mask 8+ hours a day working at Target but can “lie“ and go maskless in the grocery store or at Home Depot. They spend 40+ hours a week in Target at work but only a few hours a week in Home Depot or at the grocery store. Great bang for your buck in keeping unvaccinated people masked without forcing a passport system for everyday life. Since most workers are at will employees there is not much of an issue with requiring this. Not much different than requiring a background check or drug test. That would have been my plan. I think we might have hit 75% of adults vaccinated and be heading towards 80% if that policy was universally adopted.

I completely agree with this! As long as there is no firing of people (outside a medical place, they have free reign IMO to require whatever vaccines they think is needed) or keeping people out, asking for proof from worker doesn't bother me. In stores it would be annoying to be fair. Asking for entrance to a park or stadium? Not an issue for me either. Promoting at work will go much further!

And meanwhile, there are those of us who are vaccinated yet immunocompromised who have been given a 70% vax rate as the goal for when we can take off our masks indoors.

This should be a team effort, yet sadly it’s not. And I am reaallllly getting tired of the looks I get wearing my masks indoors.

I am so sorry you get looks. I pass judgment on no one for masking or not in a casual place. I do stink eye my cousin who is not though

 

[Heppenheimer]

I have nothing COVID-related to post, but with all the back-and-forth arguing lately, maybe people might appreciate a picture of the new puppy we just brought home.

 

[Touchdown]

These maps are becoming more and more inversely correlated, and honestly this is the only thing we should be focused on.

 

[runnsally]

Just back from WDW…the honor system clearly doesn’t work. Need to return to an indoor mask mandate.

 

[Touchdown]

Just back from WDW…the honor system clearly doesn’t work. Need to return to an indoor mask mandate.

Why? Was there an outbreak while you were there? More importantly was their an outbreak among children and/or the vaccinated? If not I dont see why, the unvaccinated hasn’t cared about your or frankly their own health from the beginning, it’s only fair that you reciprocate that indifference. Trust me, caring about someone’s health more then they do doesn’t change the bad outcome, it just brings you an overwhelming sense of failure. Don’t do that to yourself. The unvaccinated have been warned enough, THEY DONT CARE.

 

[Incomudro]

I have nothing COVID-related to post, but with all the back-and-forth arguing lately, maybe people might appreciate a picture of the new puppy we just brought home.
View attachment 569781

Bernese Mountain Dog?
What a beauty, I love those dogs.