Disney Labor Shortage

[Lilofan]

You ever think of quitting that dead-end job to do something meaningful with your life, but you just cant manage to take the leap? Well, Covid pushed a lot of those people off that proverbial cliff via job losses, family deaths, pure fear or simple YOLO. Those people are not coming back. Many people have discovered (Largely because they were given no choice. Gotta eat, ya know.) that they can do better than low wage retail jobs, and they had a lot of time to figure out how to do it.

650,000 retail workers gave notice in April alone.

When something like Covid turns your life upside down some put on their big boy pants and reinvented themselves , took risks and moved on. To go back to the same old same old, some chose not to go back.

 

[aliceismad]

there is more than one reason - but dont discount those comments if you aren’t close to or involved in hiring lower wage jobs these days.

I'm not involved in hiring lower wage jobs, but I don't discount those comments. I have several friends and relatives who are involved in hiring and/or small business owners, and I've heard similar from them. However, there are still some hard-working, ambitious young workers, and there are reasons why they aren't interested in lower wage jobs. I know kids barely out of high school who are working unpaid internships to try to get a step ahead rather than work low wage jobs like I did to put myself through school.

 

[flynnibus]

I grew up staying at Wisconsin Dells most of every summer. May Grandparents owned a place up there. Back then (70s) It was always the local kids from all around Wisconsin running all the attractions. When I brought my kids back in the 90s I was amazed that 50% of the "seasonal" help was European. The last time we were up there in 2017 it was up to about 75% European help with a summer and winter group since the dells was now a year round destination. Like an earlier poster stated, none were un happy to be there. It was win/win for everyone.

Media coverage points the reason in the Dells specifically to be because of the expansion of the resort properties in the 90s onward. The resort grew bigger then their local base could support, further increasing their reliance on imported labor. (Media reports cite first company using J-1 programs in the Dells as 1999). This is a bit location specific - but the expansion of J-1 visas has been used elsewhere as well.

 

[Ayla]

For the Atlantic coast, the issue for young people is housing. As a teenager, I looked into working on the Jersey shore, particularly Ocean City. Problem- unless you worked through the overseas hiring service, you needed to provide your own housing. Great if your parents owned a house there, not so great if they didn't. I would have needed to share a summer rent with about 5-10 other teenagers in one of the more squalid properties they typically rent to young people (and in another town besides Ocean City, because historically they do not rent to teens). It could have been done, but it was much easier and profitable just to stay home and find a summer job near where I lived, if maybe less fun.

I can't imagine that housing down the shore has become easier or more affordable for transient teenage laborers in the decades since I was that age. Judging by the advertised sale prices of shore houses I've seen lately, the situation is now probably impossible.

And to be clear, this isn't only an American problem. Pre-pandemic, I couldn't help notice that many of the attendants working in the trinket shops in smaller, more remote European tourist meccas like Rothenburg ob der Tauber, Hallstatt, or Lauterbrunnen were clearly shipped in from Asia, often with minimal skills in the local language or English.

Housing in WI Dells has long been a complaint of the foreign workers. Most of where they are forced to live are run-down and unsafe, but because they are providing a service people want, not many people care.

 

[willtravel]

that they can do better than low wage retail jobs, and they had a lot of time to figure out how to do it.

650,000 retail workers gave notice in April alone.

So how did they figure it out? To what?

 

[flynnibus]

For the Atlantic coast, the issue for young people is housing. As a teenager, I looked into working on the Jersey shore, particularly Ocean City. Problem- unless you worked through the overseas hiring service, you needed to provide your own housing. Great if your parents owned a house there, not so great if they didn't. I would have needed to share a summer rent with about 5-10 other teenagers in one of the more squalid properties they typically rent to young people (and in another town besides Ocean City, because historically they do not rent to teens). It could have been done, but it was much easier and profitable just to stay home and find a summer job near where I lived, if maybe less fun.

That depends on the locale - but workers finding their own housing is the norm, not the exception, for seasonal work -- seasonal rentals. What has happened here in the last decade plus is the inventory of available housing has decreased as properties age out and get replaced by newer condos, hotels, etc. The reduced housing is also more competitive now because so much is 'tied up' with pre-arrangemed leasing with the brokerages bringing in labor. The labor situation got so tight, larger employers increased their efforts to provide housing as part of their hiring... also further cruching things. This is an evolution as the real estate market changes and the reaction to the crunch to hire workers.

What you are seeing is often a consequence of the industrialization of large scale labor vs the traditional more organic labor and rental market.

It lead to an interesting glut of housing last summer though - as there were basically no imported workers - housing was in excess, making it easy to move down and get a spot even in season to work for the summer. I had neices that went down and made a killing as wait staff... while people wallowed at home here saying 'no work available'.

When I lived at the beach as a kid, we had 4 people in a one bedroom apartment and life was good. It's just part of the experience. But you did have to secure housing and jobs back in January... couldn't try to roll around in May and find a place. You'd be left with scraps or filling in where people didn't show, left, etc.

 

[Bullseye1967]

Housing in WI Dells has long been a complaint of the foreign workers. Most of where they are forced to live are run-down and unsafe, but because they are providing a service people want, not many people care.

They bought up a lot of the old Mom and Pop hotels and were housing them there. Is that still the practice?

 

[jloucks]

If there is no labor shortage.. why is it a bidding war?

Imagine there was no minimum wage. Every single job would be a bidding war. That does not mean there is a labor shortage, it simply means that at $1hr, you are not competitive (and several other things).

Ok, sure, you could argue that unless there is somebody willing to work for $1hr, there is a labor shortage I guess, but that assumes people can live on $1hr. If you can't live, then the alternative is.... what exactly?

 

[Lilofan]

Imagine there was no minimum wage. Every single job would be a bidding war. That does not mean there is a labor shortage, it simply means that at $1hr, you are not competitive (and several other things).

Ok, sure, you could argue that unless there is somebody willing to work for $1hr, there is a labor shortage I guess, but that assumes people can live on $1hr. If you can't live, then the alternative is.... what exactly?

Our country does not have a labor shortage even though it seems that way. We have an incentive shortage. More money to stay at home and for the savvy they do side jobs under the table to earn more income while staying at home.

 

[jloucks]

So I said what lifeguards are being paid here. What is your payscale for off the street for lifeguards where they have 'no issue'?

Oh, to answer this one, I live in the Dallas Fort worth area. Most cities and tons of other businesses have pools, from the giga-hotels (Great Wolf Lodge etc) to the smallest of cities. Lifeguard pay rates range from minimum wage to over $20 (City of Irving). $11 seems to be the point where kids start to trickle in. $8 is a tough sell, but can get you kids that have no cars and walk to work. You are still looking at reduced hours until you get to $13hr. At $12, you can open about 60% of your traditional hours.

So entities like...

Arlington TX $15-16hr
Great Wolf Lodge $12 (but a sweet indoor environment)
City of Irving $20 (granted that is a lifeguard II)
...and many more in this range have first dibs on staff, and the rest of the entities get to bidding.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Uhaul took full advantage of consumer demand to relocate when rates were also sky high during covid while many were laid off throughout the nation. To rent a Uhaul truck to move from San Francisco to Dallas a few months ago which is a cheaper cost of living was $4K. It would not be surprising that some that were laid off left Central FL.

Well one thing is for sure Uhauls from Central florida is San Francisco is a lot cheaper. The best thing is, all you need when you get to San Francisco is a few personal belongings and a tent..

 

[Disstevefan1]

Supply and demand --if Disney has a labor shortage and they want quality people they will have to pay more. But then again Disney is beholden to their stock holders and if they can get away with less staff it means a bigger bottom line. Get used to over flowing trash cansView attachment 564877

Thanks to Bob Chapek

 

[Disstevefan1]

With all the government money being thrown around to "help" people out, some have found they make more money on unemployment with the extra temporary benefits. That will probably end in another month or two and then people will either go back to work or unemployment will jump significantly. I think Disney is hiring "new" people back but at a lower salary than what some were making before the pandemic. "It's the economics, stupid." I don't know what Disney got, if anything thru the pandemic, but they certainly got a considerable savings with the 2017 tax cuts (35% down to 21%-not that they were paying that much). Companies who got these tax breaks said they would apply the money to improving their businesses, raising salaries, benefits and hire more people. It doesn't sound like that is happening. So far it's mostly been stock buy-backs with the exception of Walmart who allegedly DID increase their employees salaries.

How could ending unemployment with the extra temporary benefits cause a significant jump in unemployment? The folks currently getting the extra temporary unemployment benefits are considered unemployed, yes? Therefore, after the extra temporary unemployment benefits are gone, these folks were and still are unemployed, so the numbers at worst will stay the same and we all hope that folks who were literally making more to stay home (I would do the same, its simple math) will then go back to work, probably for more than the were getting before the pandemic.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Uhaul took full advantage of consumer demand to relocate when rates were also sky high during covid while many were laid off throughout the nation. To rent a Uhaul truck to move from San Francisco to Dallas a few months ago which is a cheaper cost of living was $4K. It would not be surprising that some that were laid off left Central FL.

I know everyone knows this but, Uhaul historically charged more for trucks traveling in a more desirable direction. 40 years ago, folks escaping NY paid more for trucks going from NY to FL than those taking the same tuck from FL to NY.

 

[John park hopper]

There was a time when people looked down on handouts and would work at any job --how times have changed

 

[Disneyhead'71]

The unemployment rate in Orange county is 5.6%. That is only one percentage point higher than it was pre-pandemic. I know all you more conservative types REALLY REALLY want to blame lazy takers sitting around taking hand outs, but that simply is not what is happening here.

 

[jloucks]

Our country does not have a labor shortage even though it seems that way. We have an incentive shortage. More money to stay at home and for the savvy they do side jobs under the table to earn more income while staying at home.

Yep, there is also the opportunity cost issue around poor worker compensation. Closest to home is the cost of childcare. If a stay at mom\dad goes into the workforce at poverty wages, they cannot afford childcare and rent.

There are a LOT of stay at home parents that would be just fine working if they could afford childcare. A huge untapped resource. ...but not at $12hr.

I think the rise of Etsy is a great example to what you are referring. These are workers, that would work, if paid more. Instead, they are forced to stay home and do side hustles. Not that they don't like their side hustles, I am just saying this is yet another untapped resource. ...but not at $12hr.

 

[WannaGoNow]

How could ending unemployment with the extra temporary benefits cause a significant jump in unemployment? The folks currently getting the extra temporary unemployment benefits are considered unemployed, yes? Therefore, after the extra temporary unemployment benefits are gone, these folks were and still are unemployed, so the numbers at worst will stay the same and we all hope that folks who were literally making more to stay home (I would do the same, its simple math) will then go back to work, probably for more than the were getting before the pandemic.

The unemployment rate is based on people actively looking for work. If people stop looking, then they have left the labor market and are not counted. If they decide to jump back into the job hunt, then the number goes up.

But literally no one is being paid to stay home. It’s an unemployment enhancement, which means the people receiving it are still not receiving the benefits of full employment such as health insurance and retirement savings plans. My salary is only a portion of my total compensation.

This also supposes salaries are the only inducement to work or otherwise people would loll about on sofas eating bonbons and watching daytime TV. That’s not true. Most people need to feel productive to have a sense of fulfillment and to be content. The issue is during the pandemic many people - out of necessity - found ways to be productive that don’t include menial labor for a subsistence wage, especially in industries such as restaurants where workers are required to be in close contact with a public that may or may not be vaccinated (with the Delta variant gaining strength), and especially when childcare options are still difficult to come by both due to COVID and because it’s now summer and schools are out.

The nature of work and how many people fund their lifestyles have been dramatically affected by the pandemic. Employers need to adapt, not the other way around.

 

[jloucks]

Work ethic is in the toilet

I would not say it is as bad as that. There is a minority making the majority look bad. I hire a lot of millennials and they do pressure that they get a reasonable work life balance. Being an X'er and a latch key kid, I never fully understood this, and still don't, but I do regret missing a lot of my kids lives because work was always more important. It doesn't have to be that way, and I know this too late for me. But I can make sure my millennials don't make the same mistake. Lol, and they are more than willing to let me.

The next most common "bad" behavior is calling in sick a ton more than us X'ers ever did. I could go years and never call in sick. The millennials seem to rarely make 90 days. But, again, is this really a problem? I mean, my gut says it is, but my brain says it is probably ok.

Now, you may be talking about some other work ethic issues, but again my organization hires a LOT of people into many different disciplines and apart from those two issues, everything else is just a small minority of folks.

Theft - tiny fraction
Violence - tiny fraction
Lazy - millennials do seem to be a little bit more...chill... but not "in the toilet bad"
Sexual Harassment - millennials are way better than we ever were. Our generation(s) were monsters. Oh, wait, maybe it was just a minority making the majority look bad? =P
Propensity to only do what tasks they like to do - Now this, this problem, is a constant struggle with several of my millennials. Now, what they do do is excellent, high tier stuff, but sheesh, getting them to do stuff they don't enjoy can be a challenge at times.

People skills are way down

Not my experience, except when it comes to the opinion that bosses do not get the respect the deserve. I do agree that millennials do not respect their X'er and boomer bosses like maybe we think they should (or like we respected our bosses). But apart from that, their treatment of customers is as good as it has ever been, and their treatment of peers is as snarky and dram-rich as it has always been. I would argue that X'ers were snarkier with each other than millennials are.

Entitlement is way up

Entitled to what? Work-life balance? Living wages? Equal rights? Clean Environment? Affordable *insert whatever you want here*?

Sure, I mean, the millennials are sick of our $#!7 and are acting accordingly. So yea, they are more "entitled" in that regard.

I am not talking about welfare. I probably agree with you, mostly, on this topic.

I am also not talking about unemployment that pays more than staff would make at work. This was a pretty crappy situation for me, calling staff back to work after the initial covid furloughs and thus giving them a pay cut from unemployment. That was not cool. They were not happy with me. At all. Very salty. ...and a bit entitled, yes.

Buoyed by movements that condition people to blame others rather than look at self-responsibility

I do agree with you here on the general premise of blame is a problematic tendency. Warranted or not is another topic.

But be warned, they are sick of what we are doing and have done. Change, big change, is coming. It is already happening. I don't know if it will be for the better or worse, but it is coming. My biggest fear is that at the rate we are printing money, we are going to have a rude awakening soon.

That, and the stratification of wealth. History shows this ALWAYS ends badly. And yet, here we go, marching right into the same dilemma.

 

[Disstevefan1]

The unemployment rate is based on people actively looking for work. If people stop looking, then they have left the labor market and are not counted. If they decide to jump back into the job hunt, then the number goes up.

But literally no one is being paid to stay home. It’s an unemployment enhancement, which means the people receiving it are still not receiving the benefits of full employment such as health insurance and retirement savings plans. My salary is only a portion of my total compensation.

This also supposes salaries are the only inducement to work or otherwise people would loll about on sofas eating bonbons and watching daytime TV. That’s not true. Most people need to feel productive to have a sense of fulfillment and to be content. The issue is during the pandemic many people - out of necessity - found ways to be productive that don’t include menial labor for a subsistence wage, especially in industries such as restaurants where workers are required to be in close contact with a public that may or may not be vaccinated (with the Delta variant gaining strength), and especially when childcare options are still difficult to come by both due to COVID and because it’s now summer and schools are out.

The nature of work and how many people fund their lifestyles have been dramatically affected by the pandemic. Employers need to adapt, not the other way around.

Ah, yes, I forgot folks who eventually stop collecting unemployment are no longer counted as unemployed.

That sure does skew the numbers.

For folks who start to look again I am guessing the only way they get counted again as unemployed, is they eventually file for unemployment again?

To file for unemployment again, I think you need to actually have to both prove you have worked X numbers of weeks before the latest job loss and to show proof you were looking for a new job to continue to get unemployment money again, but I think some states do not require proof of job search anymore?

Also, there are more folks than you think that simply do not have health care, working or not...

So it seems to me, for unemployment numbers to go up after the unemployment enhancements are gone, presuming these folks were no longer counted as unemployed, is for these folks to actually get a job, lose the job and file for unemployment again to be once again counted as unemployed?