Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[crawale]

But contracting COVID when you’re vaccinated is likely a non-issue. We need to stop acting like getting COVID is the worst thing in the world that can happen to someone. We have protection now to mitigate it. While the vaccines are very effective, they’re not full proof. But this far, they’ve been nearly full proof in preventing hospitalization and death. Isn’t that what matters?

*This is where someone will chime in and say “but vaccinated people can still pass along the virus!” And if that is true, they’ll be passing it along to those who have the vaccine. In that case, see my previous point. If they pass it along to an unvaccinated individual, that individual kind of had it coming. We aren’t going to be antisocial creatures forever just to protect those who refuse a vaccine.

One thing that makes me suspicious of vaccines although I have had both Moderna shots is that in U.K. the space between the two shots is 12 weeks and here in the U.S. the space is 4 weeks. Also the time that you must wait between getting COVID and getting a shot is about three times longer in U.S than in U.K. So which is the science?
Also I totally agree with you. Each person is responsible for themselves and right now to continue all the masking, distancing etc for those who choose not to take the vaccine is ridiculous. When a child does not take the measles vaccine the whole school does not stay home to prevent that child getting measles which when I was a child we all took in our stride.
People who think COVID is an automatic death sentence really should educate themselves and look at which group has the highest mortality. Unfortunately nursing home patients and those with co-morbidity tend to die in greater numbers than the general population. Let those of us who want to wear a mask eternally do so, those who wish never to leave their home do so but let those of us who wish live our lives.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Looks like Canada is on track to hit 50% with at least one dose by end of day Friday. Currently over 44% (54.5% of adult population).

However, this country is taking a different approach to the CDC when it comes to lifting restrictions. Instead of saying "vaccinated people can do x or y", the Federal government is saying "until x% of the population is vaccinated, restrictions will remain in place". Despite the now rapid pace of the vaccine rollout, that does not bode well for anyone hoping the border with the US will reopen anytime before the end of Summer [not that I was planning to go anywhere before Labour Day weekend].

It may be the case that more businesses and activities remain closed this summer compared to 2020, despite the vaccine rollout, in an effort to stop another wave. We'll see what happens. I still don't know when I'll be allowed to get a haircut, for example.

 

[MrMcDuck]

Or possibly see anyone who supports their theories. I've posted about an anti-vax enabling doctor who is seriously nuts. Been key at giving the conspiracy theorists info to support their claims and using it when they storm the schools demanding changes... all from a well known medical professional.

Yeah, large majority of doctors are very good, but a few are anti-vax nuts.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

One thing that makes me suspicious of vaccines although I have had both Moderna shots is that in U.K. the space between the two shots is 12 weeks and here in the U.S. the space is 4 weeks.

UK and Canada are trying to give as many people their first dose as possible before the second. It's a strategy those countries have followed to stop the spread, in Canada's case, with a more limited supply.

Moderna itself says 4 weeks. That's their recommendation and the US has followed it because it has the supply to do so.

 

[correcaminos]

Yeah, large majority of doctors are very good, but a few are anti-vax nuts.

Absolutely! Most are wonderful, but in ever profession there are nut jobs!

 

[Nickp1983]

One slight problem, though... most people only see their doctor once or twice a year (and truly, unless they have a specific complaint to address, most don't need to any more often).

I've been trying to talk to all my patients about the vaccine as I see them for their regular check-ups. Most of them, though, have already decided- they're already vaccinated by the time I see them, or they were just waiting for their age group to become available. A much smaller minority have specific concerns that they wanted allayed, and an even smaller number just refuse no matter what I say.

I suspect the majority of the refuseniks don't regularly see a medical provider.

Well that's sad that people don't have a relationship with their GP. We do. First name basis. I can email her anytime and get a response within a day.

 

[DC0703]

One thing that makes me suspicious of vaccines although I have had both Moderna shots is that in U.K. the space between the two shots is 12 weeks and here in the U.S. the space is 4 weeks. Also the time that you must wait between getting COVID and getting a shot is about three times longer in U.S than in U.K. So which is the science?

There is some newer data out there that spacing out the mRNA vaccines to 11-12 weeks may provide a better immune response in some people. The U.S. is currently sticking with the original data which is more thoroughly researched.

 

[correcaminos]

You said I left it out and then said the "whole quote" is despite having quoted the same thing. You obviously misread my post.

Edit: OK, you've edited the above. Apologies. Let's just agree to disagree.

Saw this... and yes, sorry about that. I really shouldn't be texting and posting at the same time. I know my post sucked. All said it was a ringing endorsement except that part. To normal people the whole thing was "do it" but when crazy people look, they ignore first and last and read between the lines, almost literally.

For the crazies he should have left it out but pandered some to them it seems.

 

[GoofGoof]

One thing that makes me suspicious of vaccines although I have had both Moderna shots is that in U.K. the space between the two shots is 12 weeks and here in the U.S. the space is 4 weeks. Also the time that you must wait between getting COVID and getting a shot is about three times longer in U.S than in U.K. So which is the science?
Also I totally agree with you. Each person is responsible for themselves and right now to continue all the masking, distancing etc for those who choose not to take the vaccine is ridiculous. When a child does not take the measles vaccine the whole school does not stay home to prevent that child getting measles which when I was a child we all took in our stride.
People who think COVID is an automatic death sentence really should educate themselves and look at which group has the highest mortality. Unfortunately nursing home patients and those with co-morbidity tend to die in greater numbers than the general population. Let those of us who want to wear a mask eternally do so, those who wish never to leave their home do so but let those of us who wish live our lives.

The trials that were run for Moderna used 4 weeks between doses. The trials run for Pfizer used 3 weeks. Both companies independently determined the time spread based on advice from their scientists and set the protocols for their trials. There’s no right answer to the time between and both companies have said they don’t believe waiting longer is an issue based on the known science but they can’t recommend that definitively because the trials didn’t test for that. In the UK and Canada the government officials and medical experts there determined that due to a shortage of vaccine doses it was better to delay the 2nd dose and get more people dose 1. That was a public health decision.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Yeah, large majority of doctors are very good, but a few are anti-vax nuts.

True, one of the worst anti-vaxxers out there received a standard medical (osteopathic) education and training before going rogue. He makes most of his money selling worthless mail-order supplements (enabled by that awful law we passed in the 1990s, thankyou very much US Congress!) and he provides the National Vaccine Information Center (should be called "Misinformation") with most of their funding. And he's been a guest on Dr. Oz, which should tell you enough right there.

 

[GoofGoof]

Looks like Canada is on track to hit 50% with at least one dose by end of day Friday. Currently over 44% (54.5% of adult population).

However, this country is taking a different approach to the CDC when it comes to lifting restrictions. Instead of saying "vaccinated people can do x or y", the Federal government is saying "until x% of the population is vaccinated, restrictions will remain in place". Despite the now rapid pace of the vaccine rollout, that does not bode well for anyone hoping the border with the US will reopen anytime before the end of Summer [not that I was planning to go anywhere before Labour Day weekend].

It may be the case that more businesses and activities remain closed this summer compared to 2020, despite the vaccine rollout, in an effort to stop another wave. We'll see what happens. I still don't know when I'll be allowed to get a haircut, for example.

If the target remains 75% you will likely need to wait until kids under 12 are approved before lifting any restrictions unless you get 90%+ of eligible people vaccinated which is in theory possible. Probably not until September or October for the kids under 12.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

True, one of the worst anti-vaxxers out there received a standard medical (osteopathic) education and training before going rogue. He makes most of his money selling worthless mail-order supplements (enabled by that awful law we passed in the 1990s, thankyou very much US Congress!) and he provides the National Vaccine Information Center (should be called "Misinformation") with most of their funding. And he's been a guest on Dr. Oz, which should tell you enough right there.

Which law?

 

[Jrb1979]

If the target remains 75% you will likely need to wait until kids under 12 are approved before lifting any restrictions unless you get 90%+ of eligible people vaccinated which is in theory possible. Probably not until September or October for the kids under 12.

That's what has been said since vaccines came available. Masks and social distancing will be in place til then. In Ontario at least they figure by July we will have a lot of what was open like last summer. The only thing they have said that won't be coming back this summer is concerts and fans at sporting events.

 

[hopemax]

I told my Qanom sister (who last year told me that Christy Tiegen was molesting little girls, that Wayfair was selling kids in giant cabinets, and that Tom Hanks drinks kid blood), why would doctors advise you to get the shot, and also take the shot themselves, if they were bad?

I dont see why doctors would inject themselves with nanobot trackers that also make you infertile and cause you to shed the virus, willingly.

My plan is to just tell people that if I wanted to create a disease to control people. I would do it so you think it’s no big deal, yget sick, seem like you are getting better but then you never do. Then people are on the hook for expensive healthcare for months or years. Then ask them which they’ve heard more stories about. People getting permanently harmed from the vaccine or people who can’t get better? Then if you ever hear about someone with long COVID then reinforce. See, now they’re paying a ton to the deep state...

 

[Animaniac93-98]

If the target remains 75% you will likely need to wait until kids under 12 are approved before lifting any restrictions unless you get 90%+ of eligible people vaccinated which is in theory possible. Probably not until September or October for the kids under 12.

I agree. Kids 12-15 will start getting vaccinated in ON on May 31, which should help.

But if I may rant for a moment....

Your posts illustrates why I think this particular goal, while ambitious and admirable, is not entirely practical or fair.

IMO, come July 5th (the Monday after Canada Day long weekend) most businesses and activities should be allowed except things like concerts and sports with live spectators. Mask mandates, capacity restrictions, contact tracing? Yes to all of the above, but banned outright? No. By that time anyone who wants their first dose will have had one and we'll be well underway to doing second doses. We know far more about the virus now compared to last year and now are administering an antidote. The overly cautious approach to reopening at this point is an overcorrection that does not reflect the current situation.

The thought of having summer 2021 go down the drain is hard to stomach, and I can't imagine what it must be like if you're a business who makes a disproportionate % of your income between June and August.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

That's what has been said since vaccines came available. Masks and social distancing will be in place til then. In Ontario at least they figure by July we will have a lot of what was open like last summer. The only thing they have said that won't be coming back this summer is concerts and fans at sporting events.

I'm hoping this is the case.

Last year I wore a mask while at the gym. I made a point of visiting restaurants on off peak hours, or eat outside. I didn't feel comfortable going to a movie theater, but didn't begrudge those who did.

 

[Jrb1979]

I'm hoping this is the case.

Last year I wore a mask while at the gym. I made a point of visiting restaurants on off peak hours, or eat outside. I didn't feel comfortable going to a movie theater, but didn't begrudge those who did.

With the way they have been talking they want July and August to be almost back to normal. Masks and social distancing may be in place but most things will be open.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Which law?

The name was something along the lines of "Dietary and Supplement Health and Education Act" of 1994. The act limited the FDA's regulatory power over supplements as long as they didn't claim to treat or prevent certain diseases (although that hasn't stopped some manufacturers...). The FDA can only act to ban or remove a supplement if they can prove it causes a certain degree of harm, or contains an already banned substance, putting the burden on the government and not the manufacturer. It was basically a political gift to supplement makers, and you can probably guess the very predictable results.

Goop, for example, would not exist without this act.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

The trials that were run for Moderna used 4 weeks between doses. The trials run for Pfizer used 3 weeks. Both companies independently determined the time spread based on advice from their scientists and set the protocols for their trials. There’s no right answer to the time between and both companies have said they don’t believe waiting longer is an issue based on the known science but they can’t recommend that definitively because the trials didn’t test for that. In the UK and Canada the government officials and medical experts there determined that due to a shortage of vaccine doses it was better to delay the 2nd dose and get more people dose 1. That was a public health decision.

Yep, in order to get these vaccines out ASAP there simply wasn't time to trial different intervals. If there was, they'd have studied second doses at 4 weeks, 8 weeks, 16 weeks, 6 months, etc. That's why we are now getting some data to support longer intervals, which is not unexpected given how many other vaccines have delayed second doses.

Ultimately, the USA follows the existing guidelines because they have sufficient supply and this is the correct choice. Canada and the UK delaying second shots is also the right choice, based on the current conditions. It has been reported that in Canada, new COVID cases amongst those with one shot account for only 2% of cases. One dose (for now) was a calculated risk that appears to be paying off.

 

[GoofGoof]

I agree. Kids 12-15 will start getting vaccinated in ON on May 31, which should help.

But if I may rant for a moment....

Your posts illustrates why I think this particular goal, while ambitious and admirable, is not entirely practical or fair.

IMO, come July 5th (the Monday after Canada Day long weekend) most businesses and activities should be allowed except things like concerts and sports with live spectators. Mask mandates, capacity restrictions, contact tracing? Yes to all of the above, but banned outright? No. By that time anyone who wants their first dose will have had one and we'll be well underway to doing second doses. We know far more about the virus now compared to last year and now are administering an antidote. The overly cautious approach to reopening at this point is an overcorrection that does not reflect the current situation.

The thought of having another summer go down the drain is hard to stomach, and I can't imagine what it must be like if you're a business who makes a disproportionate % of your income between June and August.

I feel for you. It would be difficult to watch another Summer slip away, especially if things start to look really good. I think the CDC here may have jumped the gun by a little bit on what just happened and I would have preferred to wait for some more people to be vaccinated, but you have to set a realistic, achievable target. Based on the progression of vaccinations in Israel they reopened almost their entire economy when over 50% of the population was vaccinated (with masks and distancing) and saw their cases really flatline at 55%. They have likely effectively achieved herd immunity and still only have 60% of the population with 1 shot. Is it necessary to go to 75%? Who knows. Israel did have a high number of natural infections (on par with the US) so if Canada has less natural immune people it’s possible they do need a higher percentage vaccinated. As I said with the US plan, Israel is just a benchmark and there are many different ways to achieve the goal. Everyone doesn’t have to follow their exact plan but it does show that flatlined cases and potentially herd immunity can be achieved at a level below 60% vaccinated.