Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[havoc315]

I haven’t seen many people saying that. Most of the people who were critical of his move have said they don‘t think we should remove restrictions based on vaccine rate at all or that they want some level of vaccination which is much higher. You are making my point though. How you and I feel about those people is irrelevant. We don’t need you to get vaccinated, we need them to. If a firm target encourages people to come in and get the shot then it‘s a win.

I agree 100%. I'm all for a firm target. I have no problem with that.
But I've seen a lot of people saying that's not a sufficient incentive, because we may never hit the target, etc. And that the only incentive they would accept is if they can drop all restrictions the moment they get vaccinated. (and when asked about enforcement of such a system, they basically say it should be purely voluntary, which of course defeats the purpose of it being an incentive).

In this case I feel like we need to listen to what the hesitant people are saying.

As I said, you have a few different groups of "hesitant."
There are those who are legitimately hesitant due to concern about safety and side effects. (within that group, you have people legitimately concerned, and people just using it as an excuse).

But it's important to realize that there is a significant portion of the population (between 10%-30%) who won't do it because of conspiracy nonsense. They distrust government/scientists/mainstream media -- And they have Tucker Carlson, the highest rated show on Fox News, telling them that the Covid vaccine is a government conspiracy and they shouldn't get it. And the more the government or mainstream media or scientists try to educate them, they see that as proof of the conspiracy.

I had a colleague tell me, an otherwise educated person, "I'm not going to get the vaccine and let the Chinese Communists track me!"

The only way to get this crowd on board with vaccination is either get the right-wing media to play a different song, and/or use such a strong carrot/stick (like a strict vaccine passport requiring vaccination to keep your job).

Education is great and needed, but if someone feels the vaccine isn’t safe it’s going to be really hard to convince them otherwise. If someone is just indifferent to getting vaccinated because they don’t see enough upside for them personally I feel like that’s an opportunity to flip someone by offering that incentive.

The incentive has been offered since the start.
If the incentive of, "it protects your life and the life of your friends and family" isn't strong enough..

We have also always had the incentive of, "when enough people get vaccinated "....

So the people who have refused to get the vaccination despite those incentives, I don't think their mind is suddenly get changed by placing an exact number on the "enough people."

"Nope, I refuse to get vaccinated to protect my life.. I refuse to get vaccinated to protect my parents and grandparents... I refuse to get vaccinated so that we can eventually get to herd immunity and return to normal.... Wait a second, now you're saying there is exactly a 50% target?!?! SIGN ME UP FOR A VACCINE!"

Again, I've got nothing against setting a firm target. But I don't think it will significantly move the crowd that is "hesitant." At best, it will motivate those who were planning to get the vaccine anyway, to speed it up a little bit.

 

[Chi84]

Vaccinated people continuing to engaging in public mitigation is because civil society and public health requires common action and unless you want the police standing on the corner checking your vaccine papers continue to enjoy public privacy and anonymity.

Better use of their time than chasing after and fining vaccinated people for not wearing masks. Actually, we don't have enough police to do either so it is, as Joey would say, a "moo point."

 

[Patcheslee]

There is no stinking way I'd send my kid to school without a mask.

On a positive note: mask wearing makes DD12 brush her teeth EXTRA well. We'd always said her breath smelled like milk and didn't believe us. Then poof mask required = "OMG you were right, I smell like milk!" Lol

 

[MisterPenguin]

I'm in NJ where vaccination rate is in the top 8 states in the country. Up until two weeks ago, people were still hunting for appointments for vaccines. The demand was intense with (anecdotally) seemingly everyone complaining about trying to find an appointment. It's a lot easier now, but in most places, it's still by appointment. So, we're using the doses that are being shipped, we can't vaccinate faster than that.

No-appointment-needed is just starting to become the norm in NJ...

All 6 N.J. COVID vaccine mega-sites offering walk-in shots starting today

Anyone 16 and older living, working or studying in New Jersey is eligible for COVID-19 vaccines.

www.nj.com

 

[FormerMember]

My favorites, though, are the covid deniers who still say it's all made up or overblown, yet they still ran out to get the vaccine at the first opportunity without any mandates or requirements. Those people are part of the problem.

Don't you mean, they "were" part of the problem?

But it's important to realize that there is a significant portion of the population (between 10%-30%)

Wait, you think there are 90 million people who think China is tracking us with the vaccines? Do you have source for that?

 

[Heppenheimer]

I don't think the "I'm not afraid of getting COVID" is reasonable at all. It's been proven over and over that being young and healthy is no guarantee of a good outcome, and we still don't know the long-term health effects yet.

We know more and more by the week... and the outlook isn't pretty. There was a recent article (can't find it a the moment, but I'll post it when I do) which found a 59% increase in all-cause mortality in people who had tested positive for and recovered from COVID vs. age and morbidity matched controls. The scariest part was that the increased mortality had no correlation to the severity of the COVID illness.

Everyone here seems to be pro-vaccine, so I'm not going to rehash all the arguments in favor of getting it for everyone eligible, but if you know someone on the fence, CNN (of all sources) wrote a good summary for lay people. And they actually resisted their worst instincts to talk down to people who don't share their politics du jour:

Covid-19 vaccine myths: These reasons for not getting a shot don't hold up. In fact, they'll set the US back

No, you can't get Covid-19 from the vaccine. Yes, doctors say young people need to get vaxxed (for several reasons). Here are 9 of the top myths fueling vaccine hesitancy, and why failing to get a shot could ruin other people's vaccinations.

www.cnn.com

 

[lazyboy97o]

Better use of their time than chasing after and fining vaccinated people for not wearing masks. Actually, we don't have enough police to do either so it is, as Joey would say, a "moo point."

I didn’t say anything about chasing after people not wearing masks. I don’t know of any places in the US that are aggressively policing masks. I’m talking about personal actions. Continue to wear a mask because it still sets an example. And then when this is past us still wear a mask and distance when you are experiencing respiratory symptoms.

 

[SorcererMC]

There was a recent article (can't find it a the moment, but I'll post it when I do) which found a 59% increase in all-cause mortality in people who had tested positive for and recovered from COVID vs. age and morbidity matched controls. The scariest part was that the increased mortality had no correlation to the severity of the COVID illness.

This?

Among COVID-19 survivors, an increased risk of death, serious illness

Researchers showed that COVID-19 survivors -- including those not sick enough to be hospitalized -- have an increased risk of death in the six months following diagnosis with the virus. They also have catalogued the numerous diseases associated with COVID-19, providing a big-picture overview of...

www.sciencedaily.com

ETA: Study published in Nature.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I didn’t say anything about chasing after people not wearing masks. I don’t know of any places in the US that are aggressively policing masks. I’m talking about personal actions. Continue to wear a mask because it still sets an example. And then when this is past us still wear a mask and distance when you are experiencing respiratory symptoms.

Yes please. And let's make it easier for people to avoid the office/school when they're sick. Especially now that so many have had experience with going virtual.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This?

Among COVID-19 survivors, an increased risk of death, serious illness

Researchers showed that COVID-19 survivors -- including those not sick enough to be hospitalized -- have an increased risk of death in the six months following diagnosis with the virus. They also have catalogued the numerous diseases associated with COVID-19, providing a big-picture overview of...

www.sciencedaily.com

I was told by experts here that only old people get it. So we should reinstate not so scary Halloween party.

they assured me that was true even after all the actual experts researched it...with data and lab coats and equipment and such...and said it was completely wrong.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Better use of their time than chasing after and fining vaccinated people for not wearing masks. Actually, we don't have enough police to do either so it is, as Joey would say, a "moo point."

so I’m gonna go ahead and do my daily thing:

so we should trust people to do what’s best...and yet assume they won’t and will do what they feel like?

 

[ImperfectPixie]

so I’m gonna go ahead and do my daily thing:

so we should trust people to do what’s best...and yet assume they won’t and will do what they feel like?

I think that throughout the pandemic, it's been proven to us that we have to take that approach.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Yes, that's the entire point of all of this. When spread is low, back to normal.

A better way to put it would be when spread can't propagate. Remember, this all started with less than 15 cases in the US.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

A better way to put it would be when spread can't propagate. Remember, this all started with less than 15 cases in the US.

It was amazing and terrifying to watch.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

A better way to put it would be when spread can't propagate. Remember, this all started with less than 15 cases in the US.

We weren't 50% vaccinated then.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It was amazing and terrifying to watch.

And yet even still a large amount of free thinkers believe it was all a deep state engineered conspiracy to make money for states and hospitals off it.

the most significant day in modern history happened last year. You can guess which day I’m talking about. Modern society...with 8 billion people and weaponized “information”...has to be stewarded by the best people. Too dangerous otherwise.
The order of things is “top down”...not “bottoms up”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We weren't 50% vaccinated then.

my quick math tells me we’re 50% short then

 

[Heppenheimer]

This?

Among COVID-19 survivors, an increased risk of death, serious illness

Researchers showed that COVID-19 survivors -- including those not sick enough to be hospitalized -- have an increased risk of death in the six months following diagnosis with the virus. They also have catalogued the numerous diseases associated with COVID-19, providing a big-picture overview of...

www.sciencedaily.com

ETA: Study published in Nature.

Yes, that's it, thanks.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think that throughout the pandemic, it's been proven to us that we have to take that approach.

Exactly...you plan to guard against it.

 

[DisneyCane]

A better way to put it would be when spread can't propagate. Remember, this all started with less than 15 cases in the US.

It probably started with only one case anywhere. Unfortunately for the world, "patient zero" was contagious enough to start a pandemic. For the US, I don't think anybody actually knows how many infected people there were in the country by the time we figured out to start testing and trying to find people who were infected. There could have been only a handful or there could have been hundreds spread all over the country. I doubt we'll ever know for sure.