Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[ImperfectPixie]

To expand on this...

Current state, anti-vaxxers are making life mildly suck for everyone. I'd rather have life REALLY suck for the anti-vaxxers and life get back to normal for everyone else.

I'm kinda right there with you.

The anti-mask/anti-vaxx/"ma freedoms" crowd has caused us enough problems. Time to send them into the corner with a dunce cap for a time-out.

The one part I don't agree with is that we could get back to normal for everyone else if too many people are choosing not to vaccinate because those people will continue to spread the virus and increase it's chances of mutating.

 

[Figgy1]

In fact, continue to have them wear them in the future (during the cold/flu season), because for the first time in 9 years neither one has been sick or brought back any common colds at all.

I plan on wearing one in public next winter and will continue to wipe down my grocery cart. Less colds warm face is win and grocery carts are gross

 

[CaptainAmerica]

So these people are OK with wearing masks and living with capacity limits and limited group gatherings for a while longer? If they get the vaccine then we all get to return to normal. If we don’t get enough people vaccinated that never happens.

They live in places where they're either not subject to those restrictions or everyone ignores them. And they don't travel so they're not dealing with airline rules or Disney rules or anything else.

I'm sitting here ed off that there's no valet parking or resort refillable mugs at Aulani right now, but the rural anti-vax crowd has no incentive to get their shots so that I can get my daily housekeeping back.

 

[GoofGoof]

To expand on this...

Current state, anti-vaxxers are making life mildly suck for everyone. I'd rather have life REALLY suck for the anti-vaxxers and life get back to normal for everyone else.

Yeah, I can’t disagree. I’m desperately trying to not feel that way. I’d rather we all just get the vaccine and get out of this together, but that’s seeming more and more naive. Vaccine passports could work but it just continues the toxic environment we‘ve lived in for a while now. It would be nice if people could see the benefit to society and the economy and just get vaccinated. I am not giving up yet on the carrot approach, but you guys are wearing me down and if vaccines slow too much I will end up switching over to the passport side. Not ready to break out the stick yet, but it’s getting close. My vaccine percent target plan is probably a last ditch effort to get people to do the right thing without threatening them.

 

[FormerMember]

So these people are OK with wearing masks and living with capacity limits and limited group gatherings for a while longer? If they get the vaccine then we all get to return to normal. If we don’t get enough people vaccinated that never happens.

Who says? In NJ no one said that. It's a hopeful guess.

I haven't heard anyone say anything more then vague word salad, that if "enough" people get vaccinated we can maybe go back to something like normal.

 

[GoofGoof]

Who says? In NJ no one said that. It's a hopeful guess.

I haven't heard anyone say anything more then vague word salad, that if "enough" people get vaccinated we can maybe go back to something like normal.

I believe whole heartedly in the vaccines and he science and know that if we get enough people vaccinated we get to return to normal, but I get that others don’t think that way. That’s why we need a firm target of vaccinated percentage like Orange County just implemented. We get to say 70% of eligible people vaccinated and we drop all restrictions.

I‘m trying to see this from the other side. You seem closer to understanding that mindset than me so would a firm target really change people’s minds or would they sill hold out?

 

[DisneyCane]

That’s the problem. These people are not looking at all of the facts. They are looking at the risks from Covid for themselves and saying I’m young and healthy so unlikely to have a bad negative outcome. Then they look at the vaccine and should see there is even a smaller actual known risk to getting the vaccine, but then they are assigning a value to a possible future risk of the vaccine. Crazy stuff like “how do we know that 10 years from now the vaccine won’t cause something bad”. There is 100% zero science behind this. The vaccine is out of your body in days not years and what’s left are anti-bodies and T cells. The same anti-bodies and T cells produced with natural infection. So in 10 years if those cells create an issue (not really likely) then anyone naturally infected would have the exact same risk as someone vaccinated. So no, not a reasonable take when the risk of the vaccine is in reality much lower than the risk of a natural infection even though both are low.

Unfortunately, some people buy into crazy stuff and I don't know how to convince them they have entered the twilight zone. Like my friend who I relayed the story about the other day. He's a relatively intelligent and normally pretty reasonable person. Somehow, he was convinced that the mRNA vaccines modify your DNA and no matter what I say, I can't convince him that they don't. What's worse is he and his wife were scheduled to get J&J before the pause. Now that he's had more time to think because of the pause, he's concerned that they aren't telling the truth about that one either so he's holding off for now.

I can't truly describe what it is like to try and have a conversation like that. This is a friend I've had for almost 30 years and who generally respects my opinions on scientific things. For some reason, on COVID vaccine science, he trusts his brother in law who has no scientific background over me.

 

[Chi84]

Yeah, I can’t disagree. I’m desperately trying to not feel that way. I’d rather we all just get the vaccine and get out of this together, but that’s seeming more and more naive. Vaccine passports could work but it just continues the toxic environment we‘ve lived in for a while now. It would be nice if people could see the benefit to society and the economy and just get vaccinated. I am not giving up yet on the carrot approach, but you guys are wearing me down and if vaccines slow too much I will end up switching over to the passport side. Not ready to break out the stick yet, but it’s getting close. My vaccine percent target plan is probably a last ditch effort to get people to do the right thing without threatening them.

Chicago is developing some type of vax pass that is not supposed to be a vaccine passport but sounds like one.

Chicago to roll out 'Vax Pass' so vaccinated can attend summer concerts

Chicago plans to roll out a "Vax Pass" that vaccinated residents will be able to use to gain access to summer concerts, according to top city health officials.

abcnews.go.com

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Chicago is developing some type of vax pass that is not supposed to be a vaccine passport but sounds like one.

Chicago to roll out 'Vax Pass' so vaccinated can attend summer concerts

Chicago plans to roll out a "Vax Pass" that vaccinated residents will be able to use to gain access to summer concerts, according to top city health officials.

abcnews.go.com

I don't like this being run by the government.

 

[SorcererMC]

Chicago is developing some type of vax pass that is not supposed to be a vaccine passport but sounds like one.

Chicago to roll out 'Vax Pass' so vaccinated can attend summer concerts

Chicago plans to roll out a "Vax Pass" that vaccinated residents will be able to use to gain access to summer concerts, according to top city health officials.

abcnews.go.com

Yeah, basically there will be vaccine passports but no one wants to call it that.

 

[Chi84]

I don't like this being run by the government.

We don’t mind the government so much here.

 

[FormerMember]

I believe whole heartedly in the vaccines and he science and know that if we get enough people vaccinated we get to return to normal, but I get that others don’t think that way. That’s why we need a firm target of vaccinated percentage like Orange County just implemented. We get to say 70% of eligible people vaccinated and we drop all restrictions.

I‘m trying to see this from the other side. You seem closer to understanding that mindset than me so would a firm target really change people’s minds or would they sill hold out?

You'll never get them all. Would a firm target help for the real fence sitters? I believe it would. I also believe it would be worth just coming out and saying, get vaccinated and YOU are no longer restricted in anyway. Now, I know there is a fear that would lead to chaos and anarchy. I just don't see it that way. I think, like anything there is a cost benefit analysis that needs to be done. And IMO the benefit would outweigh the costs. Those anarchist types, nothing is changing their minds. But for the others. I think it would be just the push we need.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The difference is that vaccine opposition is binary. It's either yes or no.

Mask opposition is a spectrum.

A. Anti-mask in all circumstances
B. Anti-mask for kids in school <----- Science is here
C. Anti-mask outdoors<----- Science is here
D. Anti-mask for people who are vaccinated <----- Science is here
E. Pro-mask in all circumstances <----- Federal Government is here

The problem is, people in E. like to caricature people in B, C, and D as if they're in A. People in A and E are just as anti-science as each other.


This is correct. It is also considered a dangerous, anti-science position by our public health apparatus.

I get some vaccine hesitancy. However it’s been debunked in most cases. Only health/biology concerns have any validity to start.

there are no legitimate mask objections. It’s bratinski, selfish nonsense if you are healthy enough to engage the public in a non-medically controlled environment.

 

[FormerMember]

First, thank you for getting vaccinated even if you believe your personal risk is low.

No need for that. These vaccines are essentially a miracle. I just wish they were being treated as such.

 

[danlb_2000]

Yeah, basically there will be vaccine passports but no one wants to call it that.

They should just call it Happy Fun Pass.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't think the "I'm not afraid of getting COVID" is reasonable at all. It's been proven over and over that being young and healthy is no guarantee of a good outcome, and we still don't know the long-term health effects yet.

it’s a problem because the echo chambers these frankly dolts go to keep beating these broken drums.

and why? Same reason people always are manipulated: to make money by allowing others to sell you product subliminally using their platforms.

we’ve proven we can’t handle it...at least in the US. We always believed we had the WW2 attitude buried in us...but not lining up to help in a plague pretty much ended that belief for me. We’re Rome after Constantine in many ways.

 

[SorcererMC]

They should just call it Happy Fun Pass.

Do not taunt Happy Fun Pass.

 

[jmp85]

In FL if you are vaccinated in a County other than where you live, the data is reported based on residence. If you get vaccinated in another State it won't get reported.

It is possibly why the goals are lower than polls suggest would be the percentage taking the vaccine. Broward is using 65% of adults and I think Orange is 60%. They likely assume that a higher percentage will be vaccinated than is reported.

I was vaccinated in Alabama, so DC Baker needs to manually add one to his daily post

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Correct. The folks I know, and this is obviously anecdotal, since I am not a pollster or anything....

They aren't anti-vax. In fact, they are pro vax. Kids all vaxxed up, they are all vaxxed up. No problems at all. What I always hear is...

"I'm not afraid of getting Covid, and nothing changes for me after the vaccine, so why bother?" Or some variant of that. These people aren't going viral fighting in grocery stores about masks. They are regular people who follow all the "rules". They just aren't interested in an experimental medicine that changes nothing for them. IMO, a very reasonable take.

that’s:

100% reasonable
100% understandable
100% selfish
100% lacks any concept of general welfare/community.

So that’s an issue, my dear.
But I’m just talking to the man in the mirror...I’m asking him to make a change.

 

[LaughingGravy]

I'm tired of this whole pandemic. Probably so are you, reading this. (Ya think?) But, it's going to keep lingering on the more people refuse to be vaccinated IF they don't have a legitimate medical issue that prevents them from doing so.
As far as the case of "it's still experimental", at this point with this many people vaccinated and the results, it really isn't. We're way beyond clinical trial numbers.
Re: vaccine passports and all of that creating two classes of people, Yep. It will. Those who are medically excused, thus an exempt passport, part of the passported/vaccinated class, and those that aren't, if it is rolled out that way.
Just like employers have the "right" to test people for drug use and have the option to not hire or fire based on the results, which seems to be allowed, I think this will be the case for Covid-19 vaccinations, since it can easily affect others as well as those who they encounter such as family members at home in a possibly deadly way.

My favorites, though, are the covid deniers who still say it's all made up or overblown, yet they still ran out to get the vaccine at the first opportunity without any mandates or requirements. Those people are part of the problem.