Jungle Cruise Re-Imagining

[Disone]

People who live in Mexico don't experience the U.S. tourist version of Mexico. Thus, it's not a very good presentation of Mexican culture.

Remember, EPCOT's supposed to educate, not reinforce the American-abroad tourist trap experience.

I see your point. You always have good ones but most people at the Epcot Pavilion do not live in Mexico. And therefore they would get the tourist worst of Mexico if/when they go.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

It would be so nice if these people who complained actually followed through on their threats to never come back to the parks again.

“There are worst things in the world than focusing on removing an animatronic”

Honey, it probably took two workers, a drill and a dolly.

I went from making a trip to WDW at least every two years of my life, to not going once while the Tiki Room was Under New Management ... simply because that was my favorite attraction. Then I went once right after it was restored; and haven't returned since (for a variety of reasons). It happens.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Racism doesn’t have to be “hating” other races, and i think that’s where most people get caught up.

Under the guise of fun and games, things can still be racist. Trader Sam and the “exotic/dangerous” themes of the Jungle Cruise are ultimately caricatured versions of native people.

Garfield is a caricatured version of a cat, but that doesn't mean I hate (or discriminate against, or dislike, or believe they are inherently inferior) cats just because I read the comic strip in the newspaper every week.

 

[Giss Neric]

Disney was built on cultural appropriation, historical revisionism & American exceptionalism, none of which are really acceptable in the real 21st Century world. So the fact that a certain (large) segment of the fanbase deliberately refuses to see insensitivity is unsurprising.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Disney was built on cultural appropriation, historical revisionism & American exceptionalism, none of which are really acceptable in the real 21st Century world. So the fact that a certain (large) segment of the fanbase deliberately refuses to see insensitivity is unsurprising.

Or they could do as we do, work and build stuff, and built a Woke Whiney World elsewhere and leave WDW to us fun loving people.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Garfield is a caricatured version of a cat, but that doesn't mean I hate (or discriminate against, or dislike, or believe they are inherently inferior) cats just because I read the comic strip in the newspaper every week.

You understand the difference between a Cat and a Race of People, right?

This is not a great analogy.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

#useyourwords

 

[zakattack99]

Sooooooooo, uh, have the Jungle Cruise skippers been making jokes about the blank space where Trader Sam/Chief Namee once stood?

Not sure what they are doing now that he is gone, most likely just not saying anything or distracting you with their favorite plants.

However I spoke to my MIL yesterday they had been down the Wed-Sat before Easter and said that when they rode Jungle Cruise the skipper completely ignored Sam. Not sure if this was the skippers choice or if he was removed from script early.

 

[larryz]

He was called Trader Sam when I worked WDW's Jungle Cruise in 1976/1977 (And, yes, I can still do my darn spiel from memory)

Did you ever do the monorail joke?

 

[tirian]

Disney was built on cultural appropriation, historical revisionism & American exceptionalism, none of which are really acceptable in the real 21st Century world. So the fact that a certain (large) segment of the fanbase deliberately refuses to see insensitivity is unsurprising.

Nice list of 50¢ words.

The mob that expects cartoons to accurately reflect real life probably doesn’t have a sense of humor anyway.

I don’t mind the idea of updating the (admittedly creaky, outdated) Jungle Cruise, but we also have to acknowledge that this department will only have jobs as long as they keep finding problems—real or imaginary. Targeting live-action cartoons such as the JC, POTC, and Tiki while the culturally-sensitive DAK is down the road is a perfect example of this nonsense.

If Disney’s own leadership can’t distinguish between ***innocent*** (important word!) cartoon caricatures and real-life cultures, they’re politicizing their theme parks. I keep seeing these “refrain from politics” warnings across the forum, but most fans aren’t interested in politicizing WDW. That’s Disney’s fault.

(And I know, someone could argue about what’s an “innocent caricature,” and I would ask if everyone is lampooned equally.)

 

[SorcererMC]

Congrats to Disney for finally sorting out that mocking indigenous cultures has been frowned upon for decades.

 

[Max Duane]

So ignoring the controversy, Disney still announced plans for a whole new plot to the ride involving SEA. Trader Sam was bound to be changed/replaced with a final scene that wraps up the new storyline anyways(that’s just how storytelling in these rides work, they typically have a cohesive beginning and end), so I’m not sure why people are still in denial over this. I’m assuming they’re keeping the Trader Sam name hence the bars? So that implies that Sam will be back, but as an entirely new character and I doubt he’ll be selling heads. A name like “Trader Sam” could mean a lot of things, which gives them a lot of possibilities for reimagining the character.

 

[Horizons1]

You can say the same for the removal of trader Sam, Disney decided they didn’t want to have it in their attraction anymore, “some people may not like it but it doesn’t mean they have to keep it”.

Then why have anything in the park if everything is offensive? Why not level the place so it’s just a slab of concrete. At some point these companies need to stop caving into this nonsense and just say no. Sadly, I don’t think it will ever come to that for Disney so we will continue to see fun elements and details removed from attractions.

 

[WillWrambles]

So ignoring the controversy, Disney still announced plans for a whole new plot to the ride involving SEA. Trader Sam was bound to be changed/replaced with a final scene that wraps up the new storyline anyways(that’s just how storytelling in these rides work, they typically have a cohesive beginning and end), so I’m not sure why people are still in denial over this. I’m assuming they’re keeping the Trader Sam name hence the bars? So that implies that Sam will be back, but as an entirely new character and I doubt he’ll be selling heads. A name like “Trader Sam” could mean a lot of things, which gives them a lot of possibilities for reimagining the character.

I’m going to repeat this idea till the end of time, make him a BUSINESS headhunter, as it gives the skippers a new joke, while keeping the name. “That’s our head salesman, Trader Sam! Though he’s a bit of a headhunter, constantly poaching people... to join our line of work!”

 

[jeanericuser001]

So ignoring the controversy, Disney still announced plans for a whole new plot to the ride involving SEA. Trader Sam was bound to be changed/replaced with a final scene that wraps up the new storyline anyways(that’s just how storytelling in these rides work, they typically have a cohesive beginning and end), so I’m not sure why people are still in denial over this. I’m assuming they’re keeping the Trader Sam name hence the bars? So that implies that Sam will be back, but as an entirely new character and I doubt he’ll be selling heads. A name like “Trader Sam” could mean a lot of things, which gives them a lot of possibilities for reimagining the character.

Damn so tempting to make a dirty joke about this but I had best keep my mouth shut. hehe

 

[castlecake2.0]

Then why have anything in the park if everything is offensive? Why not level the place so it’s just a slab of concrete. At some point these companies need to stop caving into this nonsense and just say no. Sadly, I don’t think it will ever come to that for Disney so we will continue to see fun elements and details removed from attractions.

One animatronic was removed from the attraction, jungle cruise didn’t turn into a concrete slab. Maybe not a single person complained about it. Who says Disney is caving to anyone about this. The company decided that they no longer want to feature that animatronic in its park. Maybe The Walt Disney Company said “ya know, maybe we though this was funny at one time, but now we don’t, let’s change it to something else.” Its their park they can do as they wish. They could have simply left it as is if they wanted to, but they decided it was time for a change.

 

[SteamboatJoe]

What gets me about this kind of stuff is almost everything in a theme park (and movies for that matter) is a stereotype to one degree or another. I mean IASW is nothing but a ride thru stereotypes. At some point they (Disney) are going to realize no matter how hard they push, people will still find things to hate because hating big, American corporations is just a pastime for some people. What then?

Also, the argument that Disney doesn't want these things to represent their company rings hollow when you consider they operate a theme park in China and have no problem owning and streaming stuff like Family Guy and Deadpool.

I will believe their commitment to diversity, inclusion, and social justice is genuine when they start making changes that would actually detract from their bottom line in a significant manner.

EDIT: These changes would be infinitely more palatable if the replacements were equal to or better than the quality of the item removed but they are not. I have absolutely no faith in the final decision makers to get these things right.

 

[Horizons1]

One animatronic was removed from the attraction, jungle cruise didn’t turn into a concrete slab. Maybe not a single person complained about it. Who says Disney is caving to anyone about this. The company decided that they no longer want to feature that animatronic in its park. Maybe The Walt Disney Company said “ya know, maybe we though this was funny at one time, but now we don’t, let’s change it to something else.” Its their park they can do as they wish. They could have simply left it as is if they wanted to, but they decided it was time for a change.

Which is a shame because it did not need to change. It was fine the way it was. I didn’t say they turned JC into a concrete slab. I said since they’re making all these ridiculous PC changes then where do they stop? The only way to not offended anyone is to turn everything into a concrete slab.

 

[castlecake2.0]

Which is a shame because it did not need to change. It was fine the way it was. I didn’t say they turned JC into a concrete slab. I said since they’re making all these ridiculous PC changes then where do they stop? The only way to not offended anyone is to turn everything into a concrete slab.

Well for the jungle cruise, they probably stop after removing references to natives being savages and head hunters. Whether it’s based in history or not, whether it’s a characterization or not, whether thousands of people for or against it complain, the company that owns and operates the attraction decided they no longer wanted those scenes in their boat ride.

 

[Bocabear]

One animatronic was removed from the attraction, jungle cruise didn’t turn into a concrete slab. Maybe not a single person complained about it. Who says Disney is caving to anyone about this. The company decided that they no longer want to feature that animatronic in its park. Maybe The Walt Disney Company said “ya know, maybe we though this was funny at one time, but now we don’t, let’s change it to something else.” Its their park they can do as they wish. They could have simply left it as is if they wanted to, but they decided it was time for a change.

Actually I think all the representatives of native cultures are on the slate to be removed... So it may be this one right now, but expect more changes... And actually the Trader Sam character really didn't have any pronounced ethnicity...He could be of any derivation really...so he is not necessarily an appropriation... Maybe they will remake him more of a world explorer and trader...and not of any indigenous culture...