Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[lazyboy97o]

OK. So if the car was only driven within the producing state they wouldn't have jurisdiction.

Then future governor of Georgia Lester Maddox lost his case to keep his Pickrick Restaurant segregated despite limiting service to Georgians and only buying from suppliers in Georgia. Interpretation of interstate commerce is very broad.

 

[DisneyNittany]

Didn't some earlier posts say that 100% is impossible? And now, those same posters are heralding that 100% is achievable. Quite a flip flop.

If there is no incentive to get the vaccine beyond not personally expiring or not being very ill with the infection, why get a vaccine to see anyone else. If your refusal to get vaccinated, which is your right, does not affect others, why get vaccinated to see your grandparents? To not kill them? To assuage your ability to sleep without worry? So many questions.

Not affect others ≠ not infringing on their rights.

I got the vaccine because A) I'm pro-vaccine and B) it allows me to visit my grandparents knowing we have a very small chance of giving it to one another now.

That does not mean that I want to force you to get the vaccine so that my grandparents can feel safe. You not getting vaccinated technically affects my grandparents. You not getting vaccinated does NOT encroach upon my grandparents.

I can still fight for the rights of people I disagree with while simultaneously promoting my beliefs. We always talk about "that's the problem with this country/society", but this is actually the problem with our country/society. Even if I hate you to your core, I still believe in and will fight for your rights, because they are my rights too.

 

[SamusAranX]

Then future governor of Georgia Lester Maddox lost his case to keep his Pickrick Restaurant segregated despite limiting service to Georgians and only buying from suppliers in Georgia. Interpretation of interstate commerce is very broad.

Wheat farmers who only grow wheat on their plot of land and only sell locally or use it for their personal use, are subject to interstate commerce

 

[_caleb]

The point is, you want to feel safe, so you are more than fine with your government barring people who don't think/act like you or do what you want from participating in society.

I'm sorry that I just don't feel like I'm important enough to force other people to do the same to so that I, personally, can feel safe.

That does not mean that I want to force you to get the vaccine so that my grandparents can feel safe.

The vaccine does more than make people feel safe, it actually makes us safer.

 

[correcaminos]

What, pregnancy is no longer one of them. The only other one was getting monoclonal antibody treatment for Covid would delay your shot by 3 months, but that’s been taken off the market due to the varients so that will not be a problem come December.

It has not been taken off the market. Not sure where you got that. One specific one is not good enough alone so it has to be given in conjunction with another.

US government stops distribution of Eli Lilly Covid-19 antibody treatment due to spread of coronavirus variants | CNN

The US government in coordination with Eli Lilly said it will no longer distribute the Covid-19 monoclonal antibody therapy bamlanivimab for use on its own. The halt is due to the "sustained increase" in coronavirus variants in the United States.

www.cnn.com

Also they are still trying to see how well certain patients with specific issues are reacting and if it is effective. I know some with specific immune suppressing drugs are not making antibodies.

 

[disneygeek90]

We crippled our economy, drove the wage gap even farther apart, forced small businesses to close while large corporations were free to fully operate, inhumanely locked people in and caused a significant increase in depression, suicide, domestic assault/killings, etc. over ~2% of the population (actually lower, since all ~330M people weren't tested in the US) dying from the virus (which was significantly tilted to a particular demo), but now we don't care about those 5%? Why?

Because those 5% weakly infected will absolutely not cause 550k deaths.

 

[disneygeek90]

And when you allow that much spread to take place still, and a variant pops up that’s worse and defies the vaccine, so you’re back at square one... now what?

We need to be patient. We need to get as many people vaccinated as possible, and truly see the spread drop significantly.

Right now the risk is still too high for all of your vaccination work going out the window if a new variant pops up that doesn’t play nice.

If a variant turns up that is highly resistant against the vaccines then we start reverting. Until we see that take place I don't think it's necessary quite yet.

 

[Disney Analyst]

If a variant turns up that is highly resistant against the vaccines then we start reverting. Until we see that take place I don't think it's necessary quite yet.

A variant only comes to be by allowing too much spread. So then you end up in an cycle.

Again, we all want everything to go back to normal, but we need to have patience.

 

[DisneyNittany]

Because those 5% weakly infected will absolutely not cause 550k deaths.

What is the acceptable number of deaths? I guess I'm not sure where we draw the line.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

What is the acceptable number of deaths? I guess I'm not sure where we draw the line.

Less than a 1,000 per day I’m sure of that.

 

[danlb_2000]

Yikes

Read beyond the headline...

"Out of the 1.2 million people who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 in Washington, epidemiologists have reported evidence of 102 breakthrough cases in 18 counties since Feb. 1, representing less than 0.01% of all fully vaccinated individuals in the northwestern U.S. state. Most cases were patients who experienced only mild symptoms, if any, according to a press release from the Washington State Department of Health."

"However, at least eight people with breakthrough cases have been hospitalized. The Washington State Department of Health is also investigating two potential breakthrough cases where the individuals died. Both patients were over 80 years old and suffered from underlying health issues."

 

[GoofGoof]

Since this seems to be the topic the last 23 pages: yes, you can become infected after full vaccination.

More real life evidence that the vaccines are highly effective:

Out of the 1.2 million people who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 in Washington, epidemiologists have reported evidence of 102 breakthrough cases in 18 counties since Feb. 1, representing less than 0.01% of all fully vaccinated individuals in the northwestern U.S. state. Most cases were patients who experienced only mild symptoms, if any, according to a press release from the Washington State Department of Health.

In the same time period from Feb 1 the unvaccinated population had 47,000+ positive cases in 6.4M people or 0.7% infected. That’s an equivalent vaccinate efficacy of around 98%. Good news that the vaccines continue to show such a high level of effectiveness in the real world.

 

[fgmnt]

Read beyond the headline...

"Out of the 1.2 million people who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 in Washington, epidemiologists have reported evidence of 102 breakthrough cases in 18 counties since Feb. 1, representing less than 0.01% of all fully vaccinated individuals in the northwestern U.S. state. Most cases were patients who experienced only mild symptoms, if any, according to a press release from the Washington State Department of Health."

"However, at least eight people with breakthrough cases have been hospitalized. The Washington State Department of Health is also investigating two potential breakthrough cases where the individuals died. Both patients were over 80 years old and suffered from underlying health issues."

no one on this thread reads articles, but the effort is appreciated

 

[MaryJaneP]

Didn't the Republican Senator from Wyoming, Mr. Alan Simpson, once say "Hatred corrodes the container it is carried in"?

Hard to imagine JVP aligning with the anti-vax and anti-mask hordes, especially in a stadium that holds over 100,000 people. If the 95% (or RL 90%) numbers are right, even if all ticket-holders were vaccinated, there would still be 5,000 or so people not protected. And one of them goes to visit their grandparents in the same place others are staying. Problem?

 

[Disney Analyst]

More real life evidence that the vaccines are highly effective:

Out of the 1.2 million people who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 in Washington, epidemiologists have reported evidence of 102 breakthrough cases in 18 counties since Feb. 1, representing less than 0.01% of all fully vaccinated individuals in the northwestern U.S. state. Most cases were patients who experienced only mild symptoms, if any, according to a press release from the Washington State Department of Health.

In the same time period from Feb 1 the unvaccinated population had 47,000+ positive cases in 6.4M people or 0.7% infected. That’s an equivalent vaccinate efficacy of around 98%. Good news that the vaccines continue to show such a high level of effectiveness in the real world.

I hope no one thinks I am saying the vaccine isn’t effective.

I am just trying to ensure we don’t have misinformation on here. The vaccine is incredibly effective, I would take it now if it was offered.

 

[havoc315]

It is COMPLETELY different. It is illegal to kill somebody if you make a decision to do so or make a decision to do something that can be reasonably expected to result in their death.

False. "Reckless" homicide is illegal. If I decide to randomly fire a bunch of shots into the air above a crowd and 1 of those bullets comes down and kills someone.... that's a crime.

If I drive 80 mph when the speed limit is 55 mph, that's illegal, even if the road was pretty clear and I didn't expect it to kill anyone.

Not taking a COVID vaccine can not be reasonably expected to cause somebody's death, especially once the other people have the opportunity to take said vaccine which is almost 100% effective in preventing death.

The 100% effective against death is actually a misnomer. For example, in real world use in Israel, there is reporting the vaccine is 94.5% effective against death:

Coronavirus vaccine 99% effective in preventing serious disease, death

On Sunday, 500,000 more children return to school • Malls, gyms open up as infection declines

www.jpost.com

Another study has suggested "nearly 99%" against death.

Israeli data shows Pfizer vaccine nearly 99 percent effective at preventing COVID-19 death 2 weeks after 2nd dose

More good news came out of Israel on Saturday when the country's health ministry released another round of data on the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine, further affirming its effectiveness. The latest numbers, which were compiled through Feb. 13 and compare the vaccinated and unvaccinated...

www.yahoo.com

Not to mention, as long as the virus circulates widely, there is growing risk of new variants that are potentially more dangerous. For example, the South Africa variant can already evade the AZ vaccine and other vaccines are less effective against it.

So yes... if you do not take a Covid vaccine, you can reasonably expect to put others in danger. Just as driving 80 mph is illegal.

 

[havoc315]

Yes, that's how the governments works. They aren't in the business of protecting rights.

However, if you decided to NOT get vaccinated, you are NOT infringing on any of my rights. None. It's not a hard concept.

Yes, you are infringing on the rights of others when you create a public health hazard.

But I'll make it simple..... Let's all internalize our choices. Pay for our choices. I choose to do something dangerous, it's my choice -- as long as I'm willing to pay for the consequences.

So, choosing not to get vaccinated will lead to increased public health costs, Medicare costs, etc, to pay for those needing care for Covid.
So make it nice and simple -- If you choose not to get vaccinated, you have to pay an extra tax. May be a few hundred dollars, may be a few thousand dollars, all dependent on the real public costs of continuing the Covid epidemic.

Because why should someone who got vaccinated (or couldn't get vaccinated for legitimate reasons) pay for the people who didn't get vaccinated?

 

[GoofGoof]

Read beyond the headline...

"Out of the 1.2 million people who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 in Washington, epidemiologists have reported evidence of 102 breakthrough cases in 18 counties since Feb. 1, representing less than 0.01% of all fully vaccinated individuals in the northwestern U.S. state. Most cases were patients who experienced only mild symptoms, if any, according to a press release from the Washington State Department of Health."

"However, at least eight people with breakthrough cases have been hospitalized. The Washington State Department of Health is also investigating two potential breakthrough cases where the individuals died. Both patients were over 80 years old and suffered from underlying health issues."

On the death front, putting aside the age and health of the 2 people who died that is 2 out of 1.2M vaccinated. If we could have somehow magically vaccinated all 331M Americans by Feb 1 that is roughly 275X the vaccinations so keeping the deaths at the same rate that’s the national equivalent of 550 deaths since Feb 1. Back in the real world 103,438 Americans have died since February 1 from Covid. 99.5% efficacy equivalent vs death.

 

[GoofGoof]

I hope no one thinks I am saying the vaccine isn’t effective.

I am just trying to ensure we don’t have misinformation on here. The vaccine is incredibly effective, I would take it now if it was offered.

I didn’t think you were saying that. I was thinking you posted that to show how effective they are, not the other way around. We knew even Pfizer and Moderna were only in the 90s for efficacy so it would be really odd to not see some infections in the vaccine group. The new Pfizer study on adolescents showed 100% efficacy but I‘m not sure that’s going to hold in real life when you expand beyond a few thousand people. Someone will still get sick, just not many people.

 

[havoc315]

On the death front, putting aside the age and health of the 2 people who died that is 2 out of 1.2M vaccinated. If we could have somehow magically vaccinated all 331M Americans by Feb 1 that is roughly 275X the vaccinations so keeping the deaths at the same rate that’s the national equivalent of 550 deaths since Feb 1. Back in the real world 103,438 Americans have died since February 1 from Covid. 99.5% efficacy equivalent vs death.

Two statements can both be true:
The vaccines are EXTREMELY SAFE and EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE.... They will massively reduce levels of infection and death..

They still are not a 100% impervious protective suit of armor. All the more reason that mitigation must continue until we have both mass vaccination AND extremely low case counts. Yes, likely another couple months or a bit longer.