Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Heppenheimer]

Hey...I get the desire to return to normalcy. I can’t fault anyone for that...even the loud and boisterous that didn’t really consider the severity of the situation. I get it.

The downplayers and hoaxers though...that’s off the map. I always consider these forums to be the island of misfit toys - “everyone has a place”...my abrasive self included.

But the hoax stuff...being drug along by awful pundits on tv...that’s the line

“You can go now Sir/Madam”

It is what it is. Back to normal programming.

Here's the funny thing I've noticed. This website has a collection of posters whose opinions on all matters COVID are more informed and in-line with the evolving science consensus than Medscape. The comments section of Medscape is supposed to be open only to medical professionals, but because there's essentially no moderation and anyone can claim to be a "doctor", you get comments from hard-core antivaxxers, conspiracy theorists of all sorts, herbalists, naturopaths, people with purely political or economic agendas etc. A real hot garbage dump. I think most real licensed professionals have given up policing the comments section, and just read the articles.

So, who would have thought, I found one of the best, generally most mature on-going debates about COVID, covering the medical, scientific, economic and societal aspects... on a Disney parks fansite.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Sandwiched in between a Build a Bear and the little “boutique” where the high schoolers buy formal dance gowns? Is the dog treat bakery in the other hallway with Hot Topic?

I’m imagining our dead mall with 3 national brand stores, and 2 traditional “anchors” remaining.

Even less. The JC Penny closed, leaving only Ocean State Job Lots (which surprisingly, is a great source of packaged European food brands), a discount shoe store, a gym, an auto supply store and a branch of the DMV. And now, about 200 doses of vaccines given per day. Too bad there's virtually nothing else left in the building for people to do.

 

[sullyinMT]

Pfizer’s 12-15 has been fully-enrolled for weeks. Moderna’s 12-17 is fully-enrolled as of today.

And yet, still no start date for younger kids other than “soon”. I understand it takes awhile. Why haven’t they started, then?

I’d be happy to vaccinate my 10 (soon 11) year old. We’d enroll him in a trial, but they seem to be clustered (rightfully so) near major children’s centers (Seattle, Cincinnati, Columbus, etc).

At some point though, for the medical community, the risk/reward falls off. Perhaps the consensus hope is that enough people 12+ will be vaccinated to make it a moot point.

I did see that Moderna in particular was planning to test different doses for <12. That will essentially be a whole new “ground up” trial, and by its nature take a while. By the time it’s complete, hopefully this is a moot point.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Guess what we're using our local, almost dead mall for? State-run vaccination site!

Ours too...1.5 miles away

Though I didn’t get mine there

 

[sullyinMT]

Even less. The JC Penny closed, leaving only Ocean State Job Lots (which surprisingly, is a great source of packaged European food brands), a discount shoe store, a gym, an auto supply store and a branch of the DMV. And now, about 200 doses of vaccines given per day. Too bad there's virtually nothing else left in the building for people to do.

You could go get a shoulder workout and hope to alleviate the site pain after your shot(s)!

ps - the state fair site I’ve been touting around me has finally been activated this week, run by the county health commissioners and staffed by the two big hospitals.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Do you honestly believe that no politicians outside of Florida have pulled strings to get people to the head of the vaccine line? Let's not pretend this is a Florida issue or a Republican issue. Light got shed on this particular instance by the media but if they dug around enough, I'm sure there are countless similar instances done in every State by members of both parties.

Of course not...I have enough political dealings/experience to not even bother with that silly thought.

What my backroom dealers are undoubtedly doing is recognizing the amount of eyes/political risks involved and trying to tie that off.

That bloated tick down there is doing it because he thinks it’s what “most of America” would want in an election. But he turns into a pumpkin at the state line.

Cows don’t vote.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sandwiched in between a Build a Bear and the little “boutique” where the high schoolers buy formal dance gowns? Is the dog treat bakery in the other hallway with Hot Topic?

I’m imagining our dead mall with 3 national brand stores, and 2 traditional “anchors” remaining.

Even less. The JC Penny closed, leaving only Ocean State Job Lots (which surprisingly, is a great source of packaged European food brands), a discount shoe store, a gym, an auto supply store and a branch of the DMV. And now, about 200 doses of vaccines given per day. Too bad there's virtually nothing else left in the building for people to do.

Ours is in a lord and Taylor...but they could have had the Macy’s too

 

[Touchdown]

Pfizer’s 12-15 has been fully-enrolled for weeks. Moderna’s 12-17 is fully-enrolled as of today.

And yet, still no start date for younger kids other than “soon”. I understand it takes awhile. Why haven’t they started, then? If case numbers continue to fall, it will be even harder to get volunteers (once the virus “isn’t dangerous”) and will take longer to collect data due to a lower infection rate once it is summer (the virus shows seasonality) and school is out.

Because, kids aren’t simply little adults. Their bodies are different and respond in different ways, the further from puberty you go the stranger they get. So you start with studying kids going through puberty and make sure weird side effects not experienced in adults don’t occur. If they do, odds are they will be more severe in younger kids so you stop. If they don’t, you test middle schoolers next and do the same thing, then elementary age, then the tots and infants.

Also, society tends to value child life much more then adults (they are cuter you know) and any permanent harm caused to them is simply not tollerated.

There is a reason “babied” and “kids gloves” are now used to describe over protecting and or proceeding cautiously.

 

[GoofGoof]

Pfizer’s 12-15 has been fully-enrolled for weeks. Moderna’s 12-17 is fully-enrolled as of today.

And yet, still no start date for younger kids other than “soon”. I understand it takes awhile. Why haven’t they started, then? If case numbers continue to fall, it will be even harder to get volunteers (once the virus “isn’t dangerous”) and will take longer to collect data due to a lower infection rate once it is summer (the virus shows seasonality) and school is out.

I had read somewhere that the approach for 5-11 year olds may not be a traditional clinical trial with a placebo group. If the 12-16 trial for Pfizer shows a high level of efficacy even in younger kids they may assume efficacy will be good enough (especially since the risk to children seems to be lower) and focus a trial solely on safety. Makes sure the side effects are not too intense. This cuts down on the time needed since you don’t need to wait for placebo group infections. I assume it would still take 2 months to watch safety plus however long it takes to enroll. They also won’t do 30,000 kids. It will likely be 2 to 5 thousand so could be enrolled in a few months and done in 2 more. It’s conceivable that I’d they started right now the trial could be done by end of June or July if they did it that way. Not saying it will happen, but the original goal was to have all school aged kids vaccinated by the start of the next school year. That’s August down South.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

When something is wrong you call it out no matter whether you live in Florida.. love desantis..etc. wrong is wrong.

...I can think of a few names to sub in there.

The “story” now seems to be that his star is on the rise and being pumped up.

I heard the most spoiled brat ever yesterday say with her straight face: “Florida has done a really good job”

Which is a perfectly reasonable stance if you can’t read, see, hear or comprehend data.

 

[JoeCamel]

Ours is in a lord and Taylor...but they could have had the Macy’s too

Down here it is in the parking garage (dead mall) but moving to the football stadium Monday. They will set up testing in the garage. Oh did I mention the football stadium? Yeah it is where the Buccaneers became the superbowl 55 champions! Yeah that one

 

[Patcheslee]

I wouldn't say it is "ridiculous." It's likely difficulty in getting enough people to sign their kids up for a trial. They need to study a minimum number of people and even the placebo group has to agree as if they are getting the real thing.

The closest juvenile trial is almost a 2hr drive from me. Missing work for a trial combined with a kid missing school due to the appointments, there's no way I would travel that far even if mine qualified.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Because, kids aren’t simply little adults. Their bodies are different and respond in different ways, the further from puberty you go the stranger they get. So you start with studying kids going through puberty and make sure weird side effects not experienced in adults don’t occur. If they do, odds are they will be more severe in younger kids so you stop. If they don’t, you test middle schoolers next and do the same thing, then elementary age, then the tots and infants.

Also, society tends to value child life much more then adults (they are cuter you know) and any permanent harm caused to them is simply not tollerated.

There is a reason “babied” and “kids gloves” are now used to describe over protecting and or proceeding cautiously.

I had read somewhere that the approach for 5-11 year olds may not be a traditional clinical trial with a placebo group. If the 12-16 trial for Pfizer shows a high level of efficacy even in younger kids they may assume efficacy will be good enough (especially since the risk to children seems to be lower) and focus a trial solely on safety. Makes sure the side effects are not too intense. This cuts down on the time needed since you don’t need to wait for placebo group infections. I assume it would still take 2 months to watch safety plus however long it takes to enroll. They also won’t do 30,000 kids. It will likely be 2 to 5 thousand so could be enrolled in a few months and done in 2 more. It’s conceivable that I’d they started right now the trial could be done by end of June or July if they did it that way. Not saying it will happen, but the original goal was to have all school aged kids vaccinated by the start of the next school year. That’s August down South.

All I’m saying is we are constantly reminded that time is of the essence, the virus is mutating and that could render the vaccines useless with enough mutations. If we want to prevent that and ever achieve herd immunity, we can’t leave out 25% of the population, effectively requiring that EVERY adult get a shot (they won’t). It is asinine to accelerate the initial development so substantially and then slow down.

Are we just giving up on herd immunity? It seems so. Fauci literally said high schoolers MIGHT have vaccine a bit into fall (like October) while 11-and-under would wait until at least early 2022. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/antho...dents-vaccinated-early-2022/story?id=76002276

 

[Touchdown]

All I’m saying is we are constantly reminded that time is of the essence, the virus is mutating and that could render the vaccines useless with enough mutations. If we want to prevent that and ever achieve herd immunity, we can’t leave out 25% of the population, effectively requiring that EVERY adult get a shot (they won’t). It is asinine to accelerate the initial development so substantially and then slow down.

Are we just giving up on herd immunity? It seems so. Fauci literally said high schoolers MIGHT have vaccine a bit into fall (like October) while 11-and-under would wait until at least early 2022. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/antho...dents-vaccinated-early-2022/story?id=76002276

I thought the vaccines were too rushed?

Good science takes time it is a remarkable achievement to have successfully made and mass produced half 5* (Moderna, Pfizer, J&J, Novavax, Sputnik V appears to be identical to J&J, I’m sure that’s totally a coincidence ) highly effective vaccines and 2 effective ones (AZ, Sinovac,) trust me the kids vaccines are going forward as quickly as possible.

 

[DisneyCane]

Of course many do the same things, no one is saying that. My point is just go back a hundred pages until now and look how many people here were saying nothing wrong happened. Something wrong did happen so they need to stop the I love Florida and it’s all ok rhetoric. When something is wrong you call it out no matter whether you live in Florida.. love desantis..etc. wrong is wrong.

When the story was first posted here, I called her VIP list out as wrong because it is wrong. I don't feel the same about the targeting of zip codes with a high percentage of people 65+ and a low percentage of vaccinations.

That bloated tick down there is doing it because he thinks it’s what “most of America” would want in an election. But he turns into a pumpkin at the state line.

I guess you missed or ignored my post from the other day which I will post below to illustrate the targeting of underserved communities. Also, the CVS partnership had specific aspects to target Hispanic communities.

I saw this tweet on the FL COVID page and thought it was worth pointing out as a counter to the posts about evil Ron Desantis and the 3000 doses targeted at zip codes that were "too wealthy and too white." None of the articles mentioned anything about the outreach to underserved communities that has been going on since the very beginning of the vaccinations and that Governor Desantis talked about in a press conference very early on.

Over ten times the number of people have been targeted by this outreach as were targeted in those two zip codes yet the media doesn't mention it and neither did anybody in this thread who was posting the articles to show how horrible Desantis is. I guess this type of information doesn't fit the narrative.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">️ To date, the state has administered nearly 45,000 vaccines across 57 places of worship vaccination sites in underserved communities.<br><br>The state continues identify places of worship to support one-day vaccination sites &amp; increase vaccine access to Florida&#39;s seniors. <a href="https://t.co/yWvz1LqgDS">pic.twitter.com/yWvz1LqgDS</a></p>&mdash; FL Division of Emergency Management (@FLSERT) <a href="">February 22, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

All I’m saying is we are constantly reminded that time is of the essence, the virus is mutating and that could render the vaccines useless with enough mutations. If we want to prevent that and ever achieve herd immunity, we can’t leave out 25% of the population, effectively requiring that EVERY adult get a shot (they won’t). It is asinine to accelerate the initial development so substantially and then slow down.

Are we just giving up on herd immunity? It seems so. Fauci literally said high schoolers MIGHT have vaccine a bit into fall (like October) while 11-and-under would wait until at least early 2022. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/antho...dents-vaccinated-early-2022/story?id=76002276

Nobody is “giving up” on “herd immunity”...many just aren’t bothering to understand what it is and how it’s going to happen.

It’s not tearing off your HD mask and making out with your cousin in the parking lot of Winn Dixie...
...it will be created by the vaccine.

The idea that somehow this is a subtropical fever and we will all become “strong enough” to overcome it is just silly.

So they’re not giving up...they’re doing MINIMAL screening for safety and efficacy and trying to crank this out. And if it takes the year...and then we need boosters for strains...then that’s our “here immunity”...which really isn’t even that. But it’s what we need.

That term was misused from the start...like “global warming”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

When the story was first posted here, I called her VIP list out as wrong because it is wrong. I don't feel the same about the targeting of zip codes with a high percentage of people 65+ and a low percentage of vaccinations.

I guess you missed or ignored my post from the other day which I will post below to illustrate the targeting of underserved communities. Also, the CVS partnership had specific aspects to target Hispanic communities.

Yeah...but that doesn’t take the stink off a McMansion development Coctail clinic at D-Bag Estates outside Sarasota.

I see two things I don’t need you for: my doctor or my campaign manager.

 

[danlb_2000]

Even less. The JC Penny closed, leaving only Ocean State Job Lots (which surprisingly, is a great source of packaged European food brands), a discount shoe store, a gym, an auto supply store and a branch of the DMV. And now, about 200 doses of vaccines given per day. Too bad there's virtually nothing else left in the building for people to do.

sounds like a mall near me. Just one anchor left, 2 or 3 retail stores, and one restaurant in the food court.

 

[danlb_2000]

I wouldn't say it is "ridiculous." It's likely difficulty in getting enough people to sign their kids up for a trial. They need to study a minimum number of people and even the placebo group has to agree as if they are getting the real thing.

You also need to get a certain number of symptomatic cases in your control group to complete the trial and that is going to take longer with kids.

 

[correcaminos]

Pfizer’s 12-15 has been fully-enrolled for weeks. Moderna’s 12-17 is fully-enrolled as of today.

And yet, still no start date for younger kids other than “soon”. I understand it takes awhile. Why haven’t they started, then? If case numbers continue to fall, it will be even harder to get volunteers (once the virus “isn’t dangerous”) and will take longer to collect data due to a lower infection rate once it is summer (the virus shows seasonality) and school is out.

From my understanding after considering the Pfizer/BioNTech trial for my teen, was that the teens are getting the same dosage as adults. The children will be different doses as well. So they need to see reactions of slightly smaller people - though to be fair at 12, mine was already bigger than me lol - and go from there. As it is, it was harder for them to get teens for the trial. I'll post more below the next comment as to why.

The closest juvenile trial is almost a 2hr drive from me. Missing work for a trial combined with a kid missing school due to the appointments, there's no way I would travel that far even if mine qualified.

Ours is about 30-45 minutes away as long as traffic isn't awful and even that adds up for us. The trials are time consuming. My first appointment was 3 hours in when a computer glitch sent me home. My second visit I had to start all over again and it took 4 hours not including time to get there and back. Third visit was 2.5 hours or so. Forth visit was maybe 45 minutes (only a blood draw). Add in travel time and for us, crazy school changes from hybrid to distance learning to hybrid etc and I couldn't figure out how to do it with my son. If in hybrid he'd miss his only in person time with the teachers for a week. They were not, at the time, doing weekend or night hours either. Add in a hint of fear of needles and we opted not to enroll my about to turn 13yo.

I think in the grand scheme of modern medical costs...none are that pricey. Drop in the bucket all things considered.

Total truth as sad as it is!