Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[KBLovedDisney]

Watched someone's livestream a couple of days ago and they were watching a cavalcade.

No social distancing. I know that Disney put safety precautions out there, but the people just crowded next to each other like before the pandemic and the park was definitely very busy.

Anyone else in person witnessing this, or was this just a bad one time circumstance?

 

[havoc315]

Exactly. Psychologically, by opening up to more groups as quickly as possible, you do a few things:

1) get the people who actually want the shot in quickly, so they stop calling the vaccine call-lines demanding a timeline and taking up the call center person's time;
2) ensure demand stays elevated and people don't walk away due to frustration at delays (and demand, in turn, fuels further interest--just look at the jealous Facebook comments in response to "I got my FauciOuchi!" posts);
3) add individuals of all walks of life who then share their experience with others, creating a band-wagon effect which is rather difficult to create if you only focus on the very old or very ill.

Also, we can debate this until the sheep come home, but the single strongest predictor of covid-19 outcome is age. Obsessing over which comorbidity has a strong enough PAC the ensure they make the list is futile and you always **** another group off that wasn't included. The best policy is KISS: "Keep it simple, stupid."

All true. I think it's mostly they want to make sure demand is constantly greater than supply (for now), so that there are absolutely no wasted doses. That was happening in the early days when only health care workers were eligible. You had times of, "we have several doses left over and can't find anyone to give them to!"

They want every appointment in the next 45 days filled at all times. So to make sure that happens, they want demand greater than the supply (but without a total free-for-all of making everyone eligible at once).

By almost making it a race, a competition, it's encouraging people to get an appointment as soon as possible.

 

[sullyinMT]

All true. I think it's mostly they want to make sure demand is constantly greater than supply (for now), so that there are absolutely no wasted doses. That was happening in the early days when only health care workers were eligible. You had times of, "we have several doses left over and can't find anyone to give them to!"

They want every appointment in the next 45 days filled at all times. So to make sure that happens, they want demand greater than the supply (but without a total free-for-all of making everyone eligible at once).

By almost making it a race, a competition, it's encouraging people to get an appointment as soon as possible.

Especially now that the retail pharmacy direct shipment program has begun. By making more groups eligible, it takes a lot of burden off of pharmacy staff to try and validate narrow eligibility requirements. It’s the main driver, I think, of the simple age-group verification for many states.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Watched someone's livestream a couple of days ago and they were watching a cavalcade.

No social distancing. I know that Disney put safety precautions out there, but the people just crowded next to each other like before the pandemic and the park was definitely very busy.

Anyone else in person witnessing this, or was this just a bad one time circumstance?

As I said a few pages ago.. I have not personally witnessed this but my wife is a travel agent and the reports coming back to her from clients say that social distancing is rare. Sometimes it’s not bad but other times it’s impossible. Although they saw cast members telling people with masks pulled down to put them up they haven’t witnessed anyone trying to keep people social distanced. Last 3 families, over the last month have said the same thing. They felt so uncomfortable that they actually left the park early a few days.
So if anyone is a bit uncomfortable, better to wait it out.

 

[DisneyCane]

All true. I think it's mostly they want to make sure demand is constantly greater than supply (for now), so that there are absolutely no wasted doses. That was happening in the early days when only health care workers were eligible. You had times of, "we have several doses left over and can't find anyone to give them to!"

They want every appointment in the next 45 days filled at all times. So to make sure that happens, they want demand greater than the supply (but without a total free-for-all of making everyone eligible at once).

By almost making it a race, a competition, it's encouraging people to get an appointment as soon as possible.

If there is one thing "they" aren't doing, it is constraining supply to make sure there is enough demand. "They" are shipping out every dose that gets manufactured and the states are making appointments available as soon as they know they will have doses. The only difference is some states are reserving the second dose and some are just injecting as many first doses as possible and trusting the doses will arrive in time and quantity for the second dose.

 

[DisneyCane]

As I said a few pages ago.. I have not personally witnessed this but my wife is a travel agent and the reports coming back to her from clients say that social distancing is rare. Sometimes it’s not bad but other times it’s impossible. Although they saw cast members telling people with masks pulled down to put them up they haven’t witnessed anyone trying to keep people social distanced. Last 3 families, over the last month have said the same thing. They felt so uncomfortable that they actually left the park early a few days.
So if anyone is a bit uncomfortable, better to wait it out.

Are these reports outdoors around the parks or are people not respecting the social distancing in queues?

 

[Think Tink]

Are these reports outdoors around the parks or are people not respecting the social distancing in queues?

When I was there at the end of January it was more outdoors around the parks. The queues were fine to me. Most people were following rules. At MK near Jungle Cruise and Magic Carpets of Aladdin was the most crowded area with little distancing but that was probably due to a slightly narrower walkway, or at least that's how it felt. Animal Kingdom was fantastic, I had no issue the who time.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Are these reports outdoors around the parks or are people not respecting the social distancing in queues?

They encountered it both places. My wife was asking detailed questions and has talking to the Disney agents from WDW about it. It’s better in the queues, a bit more space but they said people were basically walking up on them in and around the parks. They actually had to tell a few people in some of the lines to back up a bit and said they were getting a few faces.
I get people just want to be back into the swing of things but they need to realize other people on vacation are looking for their space so they can have a good time also. If you can’t stay away, don’t go. Disney sure isn’t stopping it.

 

[havoc315]

If there is one thing "they" aren't doing, it is constraining supply to make sure there is enough demand. "They" are shipping out every dose that gets manufactured and the states are making appointments available as soon as they know they will have doses. The only difference is some states are reserving the second dose and some are just injecting as many first doses as possible and trusting the doses will arrive in time and quantity for the second dose.

Correct. And the states that were "saving doses" now have a steady flow of both 1st and 2nd doses, so they are actually distributing their full allotment each week. While some states that went without saving doses are having days and weeks there its "second dose only" week.

 

[havoc315]

I think the carrot approach is the right one for now, especially since you can't really start pushing anything compulsory until the vaccines have full approval. Not sure how long that takes.

Agreed. The main "stick" will become international travel and cruises, both of which are looking to require vaccination. But those things only affect a portion of the population. I wonder what portion of the population never or almost never travels internationally... I'm guessing it's most Americans who rarely/never leave the country.

 

[sullyinMT]

Are these reports outdoors around the parks or are people not respecting the social distancing in queues?

In my experience, as recent as Thanksgiving week, all lines even snack carts/QS were excellent. A few times in switchbacks things get confusing and we caught ourselves or another group in “no man’s land” inadvertently. Shops and cavalcades (especially along Main Street), things did go sideways a little. Not horrific in our opinion, but not as clearly defined as elsewhere in the parks.

 

[DCBaker]

"Teachers and police 50 and older will soon be eligible to receive the COVID-19 vaccine in Florida, Gov. Ron DeSantis said Tuesday.

The vaccine has only been available to those 65 and above, but Florida is nearing the time to expand the eligibility, he said, although he didn’t give an exact date.

DeSantis attributed the move to the next phase to the “tens of thousands” of additional doses Florida will receive from the federal government at four federally supported sites in the state. The sites are in Orange, Miami-Dade, Duval and Hillsborough counties.

“Because we have these extra doses – of course, we’re going to continue to make all of those sites open for our seniors – but the federally supported sites, as long as it works out to where the doses would be allowed for this, we want that to be open not just to seniors but to sworn law enforcement and classroom teachers,” DeSantis said. “So we’ll start probably 50 and up for the police and the teachers.”

He added that his administration is polling law enforcement agencies to determine the number of police officers 50 and older who will want to get the vaccine."

DeSantis: Police, teachers 50 and older could soon get COVID-19 vaccine in Florida

Teachers and police officers 50 and older will soon be eligible to receive the COVID-19 vaccine in Florida, Gov. Ron DeSantis said Tuesday. The vaccine has only been available to those 65 and older…

www.orlandosentinel.com

 

[Incomudro]

There is quite a big risk in ending mask mandates too early. There is absolutely zero harm in being cautious and removing them too late. And no, personal annoyance doesn't count as harm. Just like not being able to dine indoors at Applebee's is not oppression.

The only reason most of us allowed these stupid masks to be forced on our faces was because we were concerned that the rate of covid19 infections would compound at a rate that was too quick for the hospitals and other health care systems to keep up with.
That they would be overwhelmed, bodies would pile up, nurses, doctors, and other healthcare workers would be knocked out of commission, further compounding the problem.
That is not going to happen now.
Enough already.

 

[Chi84]

The only reason most of us allowed these stupid masks to be forced on our faces was because we were concerned that the rate of covid19 infections would compound at a rate that was too quick for the hospitals and other health care systems to keep up with.
That they would be overwhelmed, bodies would pile up, nurses, doctors, and other healthcare workers would be knocked out of commission, further compounding the problem.
That is not going to happen now.
Enough already.

I’m amazed at how some people here took to those masks. I never received clarification, but it looked like a couple even suggested replacing annual flu shots with masks. I honestly have no objection to them as long as they’re optional. (I mean optional after the COVID restrictions are lifted.)

 

[DisneyCane]

"Teachers and police 50 and older will soon be eligible to receive the COVID-19 vaccine in Florida, Gov. Ron DeSantis said Tuesday.

The vaccine has only been available to those 65 and above, but Florida is nearing the time to expand the eligibility, he said, although he didn’t give an exact date.

DeSantis attributed the move to the next phase to the “tens of thousands” of additional doses Florida will receive from the federal government at four federally supported sites in the state. The sites are in Orange, Miami-Dade, Duval and Hillsborough counties.

“Because we have these extra doses – of course, we’re going to continue to make all of those sites open for our seniors – but the federally supported sites, as long as it works out to where the doses would be allowed for this, we want that to be open not just to seniors but to sworn law enforcement and classroom teachers,” DeSantis said. “So we’ll start probably 50 and up for the police and the teachers.”

He added that his administration is polling law enforcement agencies to determine the number of police officers 50 and older who will want to get the vaccine."

DeSantis: Police, teachers 50 and older could soon get COVID-19 vaccine in Florida

Teachers and police officers 50 and older will soon be eligible to receive the COVID-19 vaccine in Florida, Gov. Ron DeSantis said Tuesday. The vaccine has only been available to those 65 and older…

www.orlandosentinel.com

Another important paragraph from that article:

"DeSantis’ remarks came at a press conference at a Hialeah pharmacy, where he announced the state has partnered with CVS statewide at 15 locations for underserved communities while also partnering in Miami-Dade County with the chain’s Navarro Discount Pharmacy and CVS Pharmacy y más locations, which cater to Hispanic consumers."

There is a clear effort by the Desantis administration to reach out to minority communities to get them vaccinated, it just doesn't get covered much.

 

[havoc315]

The only reason most of us allowed these stupid masks to be forced on our faces was because we were concerned that the rate of covid19 infections would compound at a rate that was too quick for the hospitals and other health care systems to keep up with.
That they would be overwhelmed, bodies would pile up, nurses, doctors, and other healthcare workers would be knocked out of commission, further compounding the problem.
That is not going to happen now.
Enough already.

Maybe in your experience and community. In my community, almost everyone has been diligent about mask use at all times, from the very start. If someone is seen walking around without a mask, they are effectively shamed by the community.

So there are plenty of people and communities who see masking as a minor inconvenience for the greater public safety. All the people I know who already got vaccines are still diligent about wearing their masks.

 

[havoc315]

I’m amazed at how some people here took to those masks. I never received clarification, but it looked like a couple even suggested replacing annual flu shots with masks. I honestly have no objection to them as long as they’re optional. (I mean optional after the COVID restrictions are lifted.)

Mask wearing offers limited protection to the wearer — most of the protection comes from others wearing.

Thus mandatory mask wearing would be good public policy, in certain instances. for example, when on crowded public transportation during flu season.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

As data comes in, that timeline is likely to change for vaccine recipients. In increments of 3 months (or whatever), as data allows. We just don't know yet, and that's ok.

Dr. F was making the rounds talking about this...there wasn’t enough study on interaction early or during the vax trials...but now they’re catching up. He seemed to hint that the cdc revised guidelines may advocate “opening up” a lot more...at least for those with the vaccine. Some light maybe peaking through

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Regarding sick policies for workplaces and schools, how does an employer or teacher distinguish a sneeze or sniffles as the cold/flu/Covid versus simply seasonal allergies? How does an employer create a sick leave policy that is both fair and enforceable? If it’s too rigid, employees may end up coming to work sick. If it’s too lenient (as it is where I currently work), the bad employees will walk all over it and the management will do nothing. Meanwhile, the good employees consistently get stuck picking up the absent employees’ slack.

Teachers and school administrators can't distinguish, but we shouldn't get hung up on that. My oldest, a 7th grader, had to come home from school just before Halloween due to being nauseated from what was probably hypoglycemia. Working in an OR, getting out to pick him up was an inconvenience to more that just me, but I can't fault the school for being hyper cautious. Their policy is 24 hours symptom free without medications, or a negative test result. So, he could have technically returned to school the next day after lunch. We kept him home for the whole day, and he was able to sign in to his classes and make up the work while also enjoying some time on the couch.

I don't disagree that we probably all have at least one coworker who would abuse a lax policy. But I'd take that over bringing home a bad bug and spreading it to my family and patients. I'd also argue that current policies largely are/were too strict, and that's how we ended up with a societal norm of "being tough and pushing through." We've been taught ad nauseum that we're bad coworkers or possibly even bad people if we "stiff" the office a day's work for some minor cold. Especially with the newfound ability to collaborate from home, a lot of industries could even allow work in the dining room without taking PTO. All the while protecting others. Of course, companies may also need to review the policy of one PTO "bank" for vacations/personal days and "sick" time.

Worker “slack” is obviously a real issue (it always is)...

But any concern to pushing “opening” to address that is beyond silly. Incase that’s where this is going.

 

[sullyinMT]

Dr. F was making the rounds talking about this...there wasn’t enough study on interaction early or during the vax trials...but now they’re catching up. He seemed to hint that the cdc revised guidelines may advocate “opening up” a lot more...at least for those with the vaccine. Some light maybe peaking through

ThErE hE GoEs AgAiN! He CaN't MaKe Up HiS mInD!