Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[hopemax]

Random thought for the night, which will probably cause somebody else to leave the thread because I am obviously crazy...

One thing we are learning is that, while the March assertions that this was a man-made virus, set loose by the Chinese are false, what is happening is showing the viability of this type of virus warfare against so-called "superior nations." The people who most believe this is "China's fault," are also the most eager to just let let it rip through their country's citizens and fight the Government trying to stop it. Talk about doing the enemy's work for them. If there is any validity that the permafrost melting could unleash ancient pathogens, or that climate change will make future zoonotic virus more likely, it seems like an alternative for unfriendlies who lack resources to take on the US or Western Europe in a conventional military manner. At the least it gives Hollywood script writers, Bioterror authors, war gamers in the Defense Department new material (this is not a good thing).

Although, I'm sure that in the case of real military biowarfare it will be immediately recognized for what it is, there will be no associated propaganda warfare cries of "fake news intended to scare people and allow the government to subdue its citizens," and we will come together in harmony and cooperation to defeat the true enemy, and we don't need to stretch those kind of national muscles now.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Random thought for the night, which will probably cause somebody else to leave the thread because I am obviously crazy...

One thing we are learning is that, while the March assertions that this was a man-made virus, set loose by the Chinese are false, what is happening is showing the viability of this type of virus warfare against so-called "superior nations." The people who most believe this is "China's fault," are also the most eager to just let let it rip through their country's citizens and fight the Government trying to stop it. Talk about doing the enemy's work for them. If there is any validity that the permafrost melting could unleash ancient pathogens, or that climate change will make future zoonotic virus more likely, it seems like an alternative for unfriendlies who lack resources to take on the US or Western Europe in a conventional military manner. At the least it gives Hollywood script writers, Bioterror authors, war gamers in the Defense Department new material (this is not a good thing).

Although, I'm sure that in the case of real military biowarfare it will be immediately recognized for what it is, there will be no associated propaganda warfare cries of "fake news intended to scare people and allow the government to subdue its citizens," and we will come together in harmony and cooperation to defeat the true enemy, and we don't need to stretch those kind of national muscles now.

And that's why the last 4 years we have fallen down the totem pole. We are fulfilling the wishes of some of our enemies by destroying our country from the inside.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Its such a confusing time emotionally because I am hopeful and relieved that help is on the way, and it is so great that we have someone who is going to lead us through the rest of this disaster, but at the same time it is so heartbreaking to be going through this current wave of coronavirus. I guess I want to feel completely hopeful, but the gravity of what were going through makes me feel like I can't.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

And that's why the last 4 years we have fallen down the totem pole. We are fulfilling the wishes of some of our enemies by destroying our country from the inside.

“At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected?

I answer: that if it ever reach us, it must spring from amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we, ourselves, must be its authors and finishers. As a nation of free men, we must live through all times, or die by suicide.”

- Great Moments with President Lincoln, Disneyland.

 

[hopemax]

And that's why the last 4 years we have fallen down the totem pole. We are fulfilling the wishes of some of our enemies by destroying our country from the inside.

No one might have planned for any of this to happen, but for the right opportunistic entity, it would be a no-brainer to stir the pot as much as you can and see what happens.

 

[SoFloMagic]

Honestly: are ride photos a “thing” right now?

You can get some pretty crazy empty photos right now. A lot of people are all about that. And not getting your photo because of another guest's actions doesn't seem fair. It's not on the list of top 100 injustices in the world, but I could see it being annoying.

 

[LittleBuford]

After Nov 3, no one will be talking about the virus.

I really hope the people who kept saying this, including here in the forum, feel suitably chastened.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You can get some pretty crazy empty photos right now. A lot of people are all about that. And not getting your photo because of another guest's actions doesn't seem fair. It's not on the list of top 100 injustices in the world, but I could see it being annoying.

Yeah...I can’t get behind this one for now.

I really hope the people who kept saying this, including here in the forum, feel suitably chastened.

Anyone saying this with seriousness is probably still dug in. You don’t leave a cult

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

An interesting legal angle would be if the govt says a 100 day mask mandate, would health insurance companies be able to invalidate health cover for those who don't comply?

Oh no way...that would never happen. There is near nil “consensus” on how to do things correctly from a legal perspective. The laws are loose to allow challenges to pretty much anything.

I mean...not to go policy...but the clean water and air acts have been gutted and someone was talking up asbestos a couple years ago

 

[drizgirl]

An interesting legal angle would be if the govt says a 100 day mask mandate, would health insurance companies be able to invalidate health cover for those who don't comply?

Do they invalidate coverage for people who smoke? Coverage for people who eat bad diets? People who take drugs?

 

[ToTBellHop]

Here in CT, we received our vaccine schedule which assumes only the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines will be used (we are a small state with a bunch of hospitals run by Yale, so temperature requirements aren’t a problem here). All hospital workers vaccinated by late January. Then phase 2 (which they call 1b because “reasons”)—all other frontline workers (e.g. teachers, delivery workers, grocery store workers, etc.), anyone over 65, and anyone under 65 at high risk. For our home edition players, that ends up being about half our state. Phase 1b is through late May here. Healthy adults and kids are in Phase 2 starting June. They are assuming 80% get vaccinated and this would be possible here by 9/1/21. Any additional vaccine approvals (which are expected early next year) would, of course, shift dates forward.

The assumption is that the situation here will dramatically improve as at-risk populations are protected. Will healthy people then show up in the summer? Who knows. Either way, morbidity rates would be more in line with flu, which the ignorant hordes will likely think is “good enough.”

100 days for mask usage isn’t arbitrary even if it is a nice round number. The assumption is that we could provide a 1, 2 punch to the virus—social distancing transitioning into active immunity (whether naturally-acquired or artificially-induced) at a high rate. Most Americans with significant risk from COVID-19 will be vaccinated by 5/1/21. Did enough Americans pay attention in high school biology class to understand?

 

[ToTBellHop]

Do they invalidate coverage for people who smoke? Coverage for people who eat bad diets? People who take drugs?

Yes, actually. I am a state employee and my insurance subsidizes “good behavior.” If I end up on the naughty list (become hypertensive, for example) and do not follow my doctor’s treatment plan, I get dropped from the “Health Enhancement Program” and pay much more.

Now, enforcement for mask usage isn’t possible, but they can certainly mandate a vaccine for coverage. If I don’t get my teeth cleaned at least once a year, as an example, I get dropped. Healthy people cost insurance companies less. I would imagine passive-aggressive measures like this or not allowing you into a plane or into a Pentatonix concert next December without a vaccine are more likely than outright mandates. Americans don’t like to be mandated to do something (but being mandated to NOT do something is usually acceptable...).

 

[drizgirl]

Yes, actually. I am a state employee and my insurance subsidizes “good behavior.” If I end up on the naughty list (become hypertensive, for example) and do not follow my doctor’s treatment plan, I get dropped from the “Health Enhancement Program” and pay much more.

Now, enforcement for mask usage isn’t possible, but they can certainly mandate a vaccine for coverage. If I don’t get my teeth cleaned at least once a year, as an example, I get dropped. Healthy people cost insurance companies less. I would imagine passive-aggressive measures like this or not allowing you into a plane or into a Pentatonix concert next December without a vaccine are more likely than outright mandates. Americans don’t like to be mandated to do something (but being mandated to NOT do something is usually acceptable...).

That's not at all the same as dropping you from the insurance.

 

[DisneyCane]

Here is data that I grabbed this morning for the past 7 day average of cases per 100k population from the CDC. Can we please finally agree that short of severe restrictions there is nothing that a governor or government can do "right" at this point to keep the spread at bay? We have states with governors that supposedly are "doing everything right" like Wolf, Murphy and Cuomo doing worse statistically than states with governors supposedly "doing everything wrong" like Desantis, Abbott and Kemp. California and Florida are equal despite different approaches as are Georgia and Oregon.

A bunch of these states seemed to have the spread at bay up until relatively recently so they were starting at a better point than states like FL yet they are all having issues. If people are going to criticize Desantis and give him nicknames, why don't the governors of these other states get the same criticism?

I won't criticize any of them because the data seems to show that without very strict restrictions the virus is going to do what viruses do and spread. Just closing bars or instituting certain mandates obviously isn't the magic bullet that keeps things under control.

Pennsylvania	53.1​
Missouri	52.7​
Alabama	51.2​
Connecticut	49.1​
Louisiana	48.1​
New Jersey	45.4​
New York	42.8​
Massachusetts	38.3​
New Hampshire	37.5​
California	36.8​
Florida	36.8​
Maryland	35.3​
Texas	34.7​
North Carolina	34.5​
Georgia	32.9​
Oregon	32.9​

 

[Heppenheimer]

I have to ask. Do you honestly believe that Joe Biden (not Joe Biden's staff and handlers) is mentally capable of leading the country through anything? If you can't admit that he is a shell of his former self from a cognitive standpoint you have your head in the sand. He got elected because he was "not Trump," not because a majority of people believe he is going to be a great leader.

Maybe his staff will come up with some good ideas and his speech writers will write some good stuff for him to say but to think he is capable at this point is ridiculous. I disagreed with almost every policy of Barack Obama but he was a good leader and highly competent at setting out plans and executing them so my comment on Biden isn't just political mud. I want the country to do well no matter who is president because just like I don't want to lose a year of my life to COVID measures, I don't want to have a miserable 4 or 8 years just so a candidate I like better will become president.

Other than the stutter he has suffered from since childhood, what evidence do you have of a cognitive decline in Biden?

Honestly, though, I don't expect any bold acts of brilliance from Biden or anyone on his staff. At this point, I only expect competence and honest attempts to undue most of mess Trump has made. I previously voted for and even donated to the Republican party (prior to the rise of the idiotic Tea Party movement, and definitely not since the ascendancy of Trump within the party), so I'm no fan of the left wing of the Democratic party and the kind of societal changes they would like to legislate. At this point, I only want to modicum of competence, and non-interference in the apolitical arms of the federal government.

A president who is honest with the American people about the challenges this pandemic has presented and a willingness to work with our allies on this global problem is at least a start in the right direction. No more gaslighting, no more boasts about how this is almost over, no more empty gestures about the "tremendous job" his people have done (while the Titanic sinks). Just honest messaging.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Yeah, that anything resembling a National Mask Mandate won't make it past 100 days. And it's not even a mandate, but a request. So we know how that will go.

With the added feature of the whining, after the 100 days and when we go back to state-by-state rules, whether people participated or not, "I thought no more masks after 100 days."

And there are already people freaking out that it's a "mandate" even though it's clearly not.

 

[techgeek]

I have to ask. Do you honestly believe that Joe Biden (not Joe Biden's staff and handlers) is mentally capable of leading the country through anything? If you can't admit that he is a shell of his former self from a cognitive standpoint you have your head in the sand.

This line of discussion is drifting dangerously off-topic for this thread and into full-contact politics, but this kind of attitude is exactly the kind of divisiveness that has permeated every single important issue - including Covid - challenging our country.

How would you suggest we solve THAT problem...? Because that problem has clearly become the root of all problems, especially Covid.

 

[Jrb1979]

Here is data that I grabbed this morning for the past 7 day average of cases per 100k population from the CDC. Can we please finally agree that short of severe restrictions there is nothing that a governor or government can do "right" at this point to keep the spread at bay? We have states with governors that supposedly are "doing everything right" like Wolf, Murphy and Cuomo doing worse statistically than states with governors supposedly "doing everything wrong" like Desantis, Abbott and Kemp. California and Florida are equal despite different approaches as are Georgia and Oregon.

A bunch of these states seemed to have the spread at bay up until relatively recently so they were starting at a better point than states like FL yet they are all having issues. If people are going to criticize Desantis and give him nicknames, why don't the governors of these other states get the same criticism?

I won't criticize any of them because the data seems to show that without very strict restrictions the virus is going to do what viruses do and spread. Just closing bars or instituting certain mandates obviously isn't the magic bullet that keeps things under control.

Pennsylvania	53.1​
Missouri	52.7​
Alabama	51.2​
Connecticut	49.1​
Louisiana	48.1​
New Jersey	45.4​
New York	42.8​
Massachusetts	38.3​
New Hampshire	37.5​
California	36.8​
Florida	36.8​
Maryland	35.3​
Texas	34.7​
North Carolina	34.5​
Georgia	32.9​
Oregon	32.9​

First I will say studies in Canada have shown 80% of the the spread is from private homes. Places people don't wear masks. While cases are rising, IMO they would be that much higher with no restrictions in place. I tell you a big reason for the rising cases, there is still too many that feel they should be able to do what they want. Look no further then Thanksgiving and the amount of people traveled even after being advised not too.

 

[Clopin Trouillefou]

Here in CT, we received our vaccine schedule which assumes only the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines will be used (we are a small state with a bunch of hospitals run by Yale, so temperature requirements aren’t a problem here). All hospital workers vaccinated by late January. Then phase 2 (which they call 1b because “reasons”)—all other frontline workers (e.g. teachers, delivery workers, grocery store workers, etc.), anyone over 65, and anyone under 65 at high risk. For our home edition players, that ends up being about half our state. Phase 1b is through late May here. Healthy adults and kids are in Phase 2 starting June. They are assuming 80% get vaccinated and this would be possible here by 9/1/21. Any additional vaccine approvals (which are expected early next year) would, of course, shift dates forward.

The assumption is that the situation here will dramatically improve as at-risk populations are protected. Will healthy people then show up in the summer? Who knows. Either way, morbidity rates would be more in line with flu, which the ignorant hordes will likely think is “good enough.”

100 days for mask usage isn’t arbitrary even if it is a nice round number. The assumption is that we could provide a 1, 2 punch to the virus—social distancing transitioning into active immunity (whether naturally-acquired or artificially-induced) at a high rate. Most Americans with significant risk from COVID-19 will be vaccinated by 5/1/21. Did enough Americans pay attention in high school biology class to understand?

very informative and even reassuring, thanks for this

 

[ToTBellHop]

That's not at all the same as dropping you from the insurance.

If your insurance costs $100 a month and they move you to a $1000/month plan, they’ve effectively dropped you, just without violating federal law. They are only giving you the illusion of choice.