Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[danlb_2000]

Part of it may be people seeking a negative test so they feel better about traveling for the holiday so the negatives are more

The leveling off is in the number of cases not the positivity rate.

 

[GoofGoof]

Yes, science changes, this is from March, blah, blah, blah. My point in posting is that this is the "most respected expert" speaking very confidently and definitely and essentially dismissing the effectiveness.

This one study doesn't prove or disprove anything other than what sized droplets are filtered by various materials. Evidence of case numbers from places with mask mandates would argue that they aren't very effective. Through Florida's summer spike, the worst performing counties had mask mandates.

The only way to really have scientific proof would be two similar places with similar population density and demographics and starting point for cases per day where they all have the exact same measures in place except everybody in one place wears cloth face coverings and nobody does in the other and see what the data shows.

I ask again, if they work so well (and this study says they work REALLY well), then why can't I be in a full stadium or arena as long as everybody wears one? Or, why do I have to quarantine for 14 days if I enter PA if I have to wear a mask (even outdoors) the whole time I'm there anyway?

Haha. Fauci in March...classic. We need more studies to see if masks are effective...but any further research is invalid because of what Fauci said in March.

Who ever said masks were all you needed? You and a few others here love to beat that straw man to death any time masks come up. Masks alone are not enough, but nobody ever said they were since the beginning of this. It’s levels of protection. That’s why cars have seat belts and air bags and anti-lock breaks. If one provided absolute protection then why have the other stuff.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

A reminder that the numbers are going to be VERY off for the next week or so due to the Holiday. They will be deceptively low.

 

[danlb_2000]

Yes, science changes, this is from March, blah, blah, blah. My point in posting is that this is the "most respected expert" speaking very confidently and definitely and essentially dismissing the effectiveness.

This one study doesn't prove or disprove anything other than what sized droplets are filtered by various materials. Evidence of case numbers from places with mask mandates would argue that they aren't very effective. Through Florida's summer spike, the worst performing counties had mask mandates.

The only way to really have scientific proof would be two similar places with similar population density and demographics and starting point for cases per day where they all have the exact same measures in place except everybody in one place wears cloth face coverings and nobody does in the other and see what the data shows.

I ask again, if they work so well (and this study says they work REALLY well), then why can't I be in a full stadium or arena as long as everybody wears one? Or, why do I have to quarantine for 14 days if I enter PA if I have to wear a mask (even outdoors) the whole time I'm there anyway?

In the stadium, even with a mask, sitting right next to someone who is infected for several hours would be risky, not to mention that it's very common to eat and drink in your seat at a stadium.

 

[danlb_2000]

Yes, science changes, this is from March, blah, blah, blah. My point in posting is that this is the "most respected expert" speaking very confidently and definitely and essentially dismissing the effectiveness.

This one study doesn't prove or disprove anything other than what sized droplets are filtered by various materials. Evidence of case numbers from places with mask mandates would argue that they aren't very effective. Through Florida's summer spike, the worst performing counties had mask mandates.

The only way to really have scientific proof would be two similar places with similar population density and demographics and starting point for cases per day where they all have the exact same measures in place except everybody in one place wears cloth face coverings and nobody does in the other and see what the data shows.

I ask again, if they work so well (and this study says they work REALLY well), then why can't I be in a full stadium or arena as long as everybody wears one? Or, why do I have to quarantine for 14 days if I enter PA if I have to wear a mask (even outdoors) the whole time I'm there anyway?

He says right up front, the only people who should be wearing masks are those who are infected. Then we learned that there where A LOT of people who didn't know they were infected, so if you don't know, it makes sense to wear a mask.

 

[matt9112]

It will be an interesting study for sure. I think ultimately what needs to be examined is why the US (a country with vast resources and medical facilities) faired so poorly compared to the rest of the world. When the dust settles I think there will be conclusions drawn and I don’t think it will paint the American response in a pretty light although not for the reasons you are suggesting. Not for too many restrictions or too much government overreach but for an overall failure to have a consistent plan and also from the prospective of the individual citizens lacking the will power and desire to do what it takes to get through this and sacrifice for the greater good. There will be plenty of time to study that. For right now we just need to hold the course, get people to comply with recommendations and survive long enough for an effective vaccine to (God willing) bail us out.

I would argue its loosely related to our goverment structure and vastly more independent nature than some other places. Even as much weaker bodies after the civil war our states still have vastly more power on average and thus control than most European states/provinces The inevitable result is we are a patch work...far less centralized. I mean California and say Florida legally feel like two different nations. This has positives like perserving culture and individual rights far longer however the downside is the opposite of say the CCP. On the other end of the spectrum a centralized all controlling goverment can simply enact things instantly across the board because there is no discussion...no argument. Covid is simply a crisis within these confines. Where your nation falls on centralized governance likely has a direct impact on the level of response.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Yes, science changes, this is from March, blah, blah, blah. My point in posting is that this is the "most respected expert" speaking very confidently and definitely and essentially dismissing the effectiveness.

This one study doesn't prove or disprove anything other than what sized droplets are filtered by various materials. Evidence of case numbers from places with mask mandates would argue that they aren't very effective. Through Florida's summer spike, the worst performing counties had mask mandates.

The only way to really have scientific proof would be two similar places with similar population density and demographics and starting point for cases per day where they all have the exact same measures in place except everybody in one place wears cloth face coverings and nobody does in the other and see what the data shows.

I ask again, if they work so well (and this study says they work REALLY well), then why can't I be in a full stadium or arena as long as everybody wears one? Or, why do I have to quarantine for 14 days if I enter PA if I have to wear a mask (even outdoors) the whole time I'm there anyway?

Let’s see... believe what almost every expert on this virus says about masks and almost every study of thousands about masks...or a internet poster on a Disney board. I’ll take my chances on Fauci and the others.

 

[GoofGoof]

Let’s see... believe what almost every expert on this virus says about masks and almost every study of thousands about masks...or a internet poster on a Disney board. I’ll take my chances on Fauci and the others.

Fauci said something about masks in March...no takesies backsies

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Yes, science changes, this is from March, blah, blah, blah. My point in posting is that this is the "most respected expert" speaking very confidently and definitely and essentially dismissing the effectiveness.

This one study doesn't prove or disprove anything other than what sized droplets are filtered by various materials. Evidence of case numbers from places with mask mandates would argue that they aren't very effective. Through Florida's summer spike, the worst performing counties had mask mandates.

The only way to really have scientific proof would be two similar places with similar population density and demographics and starting point for cases per day where they all have the exact same measures in place except everybody in one place wears cloth face coverings and nobody does in the other and see what the data shows.

I ask again, if they work so well (and this study says they work REALLY well), then why can't I be in a full stadium or arena as long as everybody wears one? Or, why do I have to quarantine for 14 days if I enter PA if I have to wear a mask (even outdoors) the whole time I'm there anyway?

Have you seen the studies showing the before and after in places that implemented mask mandates vs. places that didn't? Here's one from the CDC showing weekly cases dropping 6% in counties in KS that implemented mask mandates. That may seem small until you see that cases doubled in the same time frame in the counties in KS that didn't require masks. In that light, a 6% decrease vs. a 100% increase is a huge difference.

Trends in County-Level COVID-19 Incidence in Counties With ...

This report describes COVID-19 incidence in Kansas counties with and without mask mandates.

www.cdc.gov

 

[BrianLo]

This is honestly just embarrassing at this stage. Like trying to argue the world is flat because they previously said so.

Ignorance is a powerful shield when one has an agenda.

 

[GoofGoof]

Have you seen the studies showing the before and after in places that implemented mask mandates vs. places that didn't? Here's one from the CDC showing weekly cases dropping 6% in counties in KS that implemented mask mandates. That may seem small until you see that cases doubled in the same time frame in the counties in KS that didn't require masks. In that light, a 6% decrease vs. a 100% increase is a huge difference.

Trends in County-Level COVID-19 Incidence in Counties With ...

This report describes COVID-19 incidence in Kansas counties with and without mask mandates.

www.cdc.gov

Those studies are invalid because CA is a blue state and they have lots of cases For math fans out there even though CA has the second most cases there are only 9 states with less cases per capita cases. Almost all of the top 25 states with highest cases per capita have limited or no mask mandates. I think there is a lot of circumstantial evidences to point to their effectiveness when looking at cases that way, but I don’t think that tells the whole story. Many people are also infected at home when they wouldn’t likely be wearing a mask or while dining or drinking at the bar without a mask so even with a full mask mandate that was followed moat of the time by most people we would still have cases...less overall cases, but still spread.

 

[hopemax]

So I just rescheduled my visit to my Dad's. I was supposed to fly into MCO on 12/2 and fly home on 12/15. But with the current state of things, decided I didn't want to risk getting potentially sick and therefore stuck in FL and not make it home for Christmas (or my birthday, which is is earlier in Christmas week). Next attempt is 1/6.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Yes, science changes, this is from March, blah, blah, blah. My point in posting is

Your point is that you just invalidated your point by showing a blatant ignorance of the scientific method.

 

[Jrb1979]

Your point is that you just invalidated your point by showing a blatant ignorance of the scientific method.

Don't you know science should know back in March everything about this virus.

 

[Disney Experience]

Let’s see... believe what almost every expert on this virus says about masks and almost every study of thousands about masks...or a internet poster on a Disney board. I’ll take my chances on Fauci and the others.

I agree, but in doing so I am relying on others to abridge and summarize that information, and I always love hearing differing opinions. I have not personally read all masks studies out there, but I think even laymen can see some value in it.

A mask obviously reduces aerosols, both in volume and velocity outgoing from the wearer. The droplet size/cross-section that a mask interferes with varies with the type of mask. A mask also is a visual reminder to socially distance. Early on I think Fauci was trying to preserve N-95 inventory in the USA for situations that were known then to be of greater need/risk. Having surgery performed without a mask means that the patient whose normal 'skin defense' is compromised due to the incision would be exposed to more bacteria and virus from the health worker's breaths. Plus they didn't think covid was as easily spread as it seems to be now shown.

I am vaccinated against Covid-19 with the Pfizer vaccine (Both shots in September), but I still wear a mask in indoor spaces where strangers gather. I may personally believe that the chances of me getting or passing on Covid-19 is small, but I still wear a mask where required. Studies have not yet proven that a vaccinated person cannot be a short term asymptomatic carrier[But animal studies point to it]. Also, how would anyone know I am vaccinated vs an avid no masker.[Some organization such as the IATA are working on digital vaccination records]

Of course a mask can be a negative to one's health too. I was at the local car dealership getting my car repaired. I waited in the customer lounge along with my wife and two other customers. I had my mask on, I started to want to sneeze. I then sneezed with my mask on into my elbow. Now if one looks at why the body sneezes it does so in order to get something it doesn't want out. So sneezing into my mask [without replacing it with a new one], and then wearing it, will increase the chance that whatever my body was ejecting getting back in. That is not in one's personal interest, but is in other people's interest.

Same reason I volunteered in 2005 to go to North Victory Camp in Iraq to help support the soldiers there, literally had mortar round land 50 yards from me. The work that brought me there may have helped save lives, even if it risked mine a little . Volunteering for phase 3 vaccine trials, may help save lives, and risk mine a little. But all of these choices increase one's own risk. But those were my own individual choices, not mandated by the government. I do not think wearing a mask risks one's own life much for the majority of people.

Wearing a mask may make a healthy person feel that its a little harder to breath, their glasses steam up, they cannot communicate as easily with others in a non-verbal manner, cause minor skin infections due to contact with the skin, but it is something one can do to support the community where it is desired. How much should be left up to individual responsibility vs community coercion in a country founded on individual freedom within limits is something that people can disagree on.

When young adults wear masks in public indoor spaces it communicates to me that they care about the more vulnerable in their community, and I like seeing that. For months I have let people know of the covid vaccine trials and how to volunteer if they wanted to, many had no idea that a vaccine was in the works, that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Now we are weeks away from emergency use authorization and the light is brighter. Bring on the light and a return to a more normal life.

 

[Touchdown]

I agree, but in doing so I am relying on others to abridge and summarize that information, and I always love hearing differing opinions. I have not personally read all masks studies out there, but I think even laymen can see some value in it.

A mask obviously reduces aerosols, both in volume and velocity outgoing from the wearer. The droplet size/cross-section that a mask interferes with varies with the type of mask. A mask also is a visual reminder to socially distance. Early on I think Fauci was trying to preserve N-95 inventory in the USA for situations that were known then to be of greater need/risk. Having surgery performed without a mask means that the patient whose normal 'skin defense' is compromised due to the incision would be exposed to more bacteria and virus from the health worker's breaths. Plus they didn't think covid was as easily spread as it seems to be now shown.

I am vaccinated against Covid-19 with the Pfizer vaccine (Both shots in September), but I still wear a mask in indoor spaces where strangers gather. I may personally believe that the chances of me getting or passing on Covid-19 is small, but I still wear a mask where required. Studies have not yet proven that a vaccinated person cannot be a short term asymptomatic carrier[But animal studies point to it]. Also, how would anyone know I am vaccinated vs an avid no masker.[Some organization such as the IATA are working on digital vaccination records]

Of course a mask can be a negative to one's health too. I was at the local car dealership getting my car repaired. I waited in the customer lounge along with my wife and two other customers. I had my mask on, I started to want to sneeze. I then sneezed with my mask on into my elbow. Now if one looks at why the body sneezes it does so in order to get something it doesn't want out. So sneezing into my mask [without replacing it with a new one], and then wearing it, will increase the chance that whatever my body was ejecting getting back in. That is not in one's personal interest, but is in other people's interest.

Same reason I volunteered in 2005 to go to North Victory Camp in Iraq to help support the soldiers there, literally had mortar round land 50 yards from me. The work that brought me there may have helped save lives, even if it risked mine a little . Volunteering for phase 3 vaccine trials, may help save lives, and risk mine a little. But all of these choices increase one's own risk. But those were my own individual choices, not mandated by the government. I do not think wearing a mask risks one's own life much for the majority of people.

Wearing a mask may make a healthy person feel that its a little harder to breath, their glasses steam up, they cannot communicate as easily with others in a non-verbal manner, cause minor skin infections due to contact with the skin, but it is something one can do to support the community where it is desired. How much should be left up to individual responsibility vs community coercion in a country founded on individual freedom within limits is something that people can disagree on.

When young adults wear masks in public indoor spaces it communicates to me that they care about the more vulnerable in their community, and I like seeing that. For months I have let people know of the covid vaccine trials and how to volunteer if they wanted to, many had no idea that a vaccine was in the works, that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Now we are weeks away from emergency use authorization and the light is brighter. Bring on the light and a return to a more normal life.

You have a 50% shot of being vaccinated you mean, you could have unknowingly gotten the placebo.

 

[DCBaker]

Numbers are out - there were 97 new reported deaths.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Numbers are out - there were 97 new reported deaths.

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Hopefully 7-8% is the plateau and it will go down from here. But FLORIDA.

 

[GoofGoof]

Numbers are out - there were 97 new reported deaths.

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Slow and steady. Not great but not exploding either. Could be the calm before the storm. Everyone stay safe on Thanksgiving and over the weekend.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Slow and steady. Not great but not exploding either. Could be the calm before the storm. Everyone stay safe on Thanksgiving and over the weekend.

you too!