Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

Actually listening to engineering heads at Porsche, Audi and Peugeot all electric vehicles are being referred to as interim measures. The long term future outlook is for liquid hydrogen fueled vehicles. Working hydrogen fueled hybrid and non hybrid working prototypes are already being tested with racing prototypes to begin appearing in 2021. Also a reference was made to some commercial vehicles in England being routinely used already with no issues. Imagine vehicle exhaust being mere water vapor.

The electric vehicles of today are an interim measure. More of a novelty. As battery technology increases that‘s when they could become more mainstream. Imagine if your electric car got 1,000 miles on a charge and/or you could quick charge the battery to full in several minutes. That’s a game changer. If the cost of those batteries comes down too that makes the cars cheaper and cheaper. Outside of CA there’s a lot of range anxiety with electric cars so mostly used as commuter cars where people have a place to plug in at their office or they work close enough that they can charge each night. With better, cheaper batteries it’s possible to use electric cars as everyday vehicles.

Hydrogen has some promise but a lot of logistical challenges. It’s possible it becomes more mainstream and possible it never does.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Joe is going to stop subsidizing oil and gas so that will for sure drive up the prices. Who knows, maybe we will need to import more, will will for sure stop being an energy exporter.

It will be interesting to see what happens when oil begins to climb and all the industry that rely on oil and gas to survive will do. Even regular folks who need to heat their homes or drive their cars may be affected.

This will be interesting to watch for sure. As always, it will be hard to tell truth from myth.

Joe also promised the farmers to increase and subsidize Ethanol that will impact fuel but also food.

 

[Kevin_W]

The electric vehicles of today are an interim measure. More of a novelty. As battery technology increases that‘s when they could become more mainstream. Imagine if your electric car got 1,000 miles on a charge and/or you could quick charge the battery to full in several minutes. That’s a game changer. If the cost of those batteries comes down too that makes the cars cheaper and cheaper. Outside of CA there’s a lot of range anxiety with electric cars so mostly used as commuter cars where people have a place to plug in at their office or they work close enough that they can charge each night. With better, cheaper batteries it’s possible to use electric cars as everyday vehicles.

Hydrogen has some promise but a lot of logistical challenges. It’s possible it becomes more mainstream and possible it never does.

As an electric car driver for 2.5 years, I'd amend your post to "Outside of CA there’s a lot of misplaced range anxiety with electric cars". For 95% of my driving, it's far more convenient than an ICE car, and for the other 5% it's not a big deal at all.

Range is already pretty good(300-400 miles rated range on new models, comparable to a tank of gas in an average ICE), in in coming years will just improve. Price needs to get better, but it's already competitive with low-end luxury cars. A little more price improvement will put them in competition with the Accords of the world.

We'll see what hydrogen brings - Toyota has been betting on it for a long time but hasn't made much progress. There are definitely challenges to handling such a small, light molecule. Tesla is already phasing cobalt out of their batteries, so hopefully progress continues on that front.

 

[GoofGoof]

Joe is going to stop subsidizing oil and gas so that will for sure drive up the prices. Who knows, maybe we will need to import more, will will for sure stop being an energy exporter.

It will be interesting to see what happens when oil begins to climb and all the industry that rely on oil and gas to survive will do. Even regular folks who need to heat their homes or drive their cars may be affected.

This will be interesting to watch for sure. As always, it will be hard to tell truth from myth.

The election is over. The nonsense about what Joe is going to do was an attempt to create fear and get people in Western PA to vote against him. It didn’t work Renewable power has nothing to do with the price of oil anyway.

Fracking caused oil prices to drop to the point that many of the fracking sites are no longer profitable. Once you take facilities off line then the supply drops and the price rises. The problem is you can’t just flip a switch and turn sites on and off so many companies will operate at a loss hoping for a price recovery. It’s not sustainable long term. Regular, basic economics can and should prevail. Simple supply and demand will decide what happens to the price.

 

[GimpYancIent]

As an electric car driver for 2.5 years, I'd amend your post to "Outside of CA there’s a lot of misplaced range anxiety with electric cars". For 95% of my driving, it's far more convenient than an ICE car, and for the other 5% it's not a big deal at all.

Range is already pretty good(300-400 miles rated range on new models, comparable to a tank of gas in an average ICE), in in coming years will just improve. Price needs to get better, but it's already competitive with low-end luxury cars. A little more price improvement will put them in competition with the Accords of the world.

We'll see what hydrogen brings - Toyota has been betting on it for a long time but hasn't made much progress. There are definitely challenges to handling such a small, light molecule. Tesla is already phasing cobalt out of their batteries, so hopefully progress continues on that front.

It is not so much range as recharge time. Fully electric charge time limits any extended road trip. Hybrids use fuel in conjunction with electric making refuel / recharge not an issue. Hydrogen would be clean used as either a Hybrid configuration or pure Hydrogen refueling will be as is now with gasoline or diesel fueled vehicles. I wonder if Test Track in EPCOT could be modified to showcase Hydrogen powered vehicles?

 

[DisneyCane]

Actually listening to engineering heads at Porsche, Audi and Peugeot all electric vehicles are being referred to as interim measures. The long term future outlook is for liquid hydrogen fueled vehicles. Working hydrogen fueled hybrid and non hybrid working prototypes are already being tested with racing prototypes to begin appearing in 2021. Also a reference was made to some commercial vehicles in England being routinely used already with no issues. Imagine vehicle exhaust being mere water vapor.

While the exhaust from the vehicle is only water vapor, there are other emissions from producing, storing and transporting the hydrogen. Yes, some can be produced from renewable energy but it is less efficient than just taking that energy and charging batteries with it. Earth doesn't have anywhere that you can drill for hydrogen.

The electric vehicles of today are an interim measure. More of a novelty. As battery technology increases that‘s when they could become more mainstream. Imagine if your electric car got 1,000 miles on a charge and/or you could quick charge the battery to full in several minutes. That’s a game changer. If the cost of those batteries comes down too that makes the cars cheaper and cheaper. Outside of CA there’s a lot of range anxiety with electric cars so mostly used as commuter cars where people have a place to plug in at their office or they work close enough that they can charge each night. With better, cheaper batteries it’s possible to use electric cars as everyday vehicles.

Hydrogen has some promise but a lot of logistical challenges. It’s possible it becomes more mainstream and possible it never does.

Battery cost needs to come down for electric vehicles to become more mainstream. The range anxiety isn't really an issue with 250+ mile range and rapid charging becoming more available. Having 1,000 mile range (which is hardly ever needed) will just add cost and weight so improvements in battery technology will be used to reduce the cost of the battery packs by reducing the number of cells needed to get 250-350 mile range.

I wouldn't buy an electric vehicle if liked cross country driving but 250 miles will get you to WDW from just about anywhere in FL and you can charge it up upon arrival (in the parking lot).

I'm not sure how this thread ended up discussing hydrogen and battery powered electric cars but I figure it is less likely to get a condescending insult from @Sirwalterraleigh on this topic so I might as well reply.

 

[Heppenheimer]

It is not so much range as recharge time. Fully electric charge time limits any extended road trip. Hybrids use fuel in conjunction with electric making refuel / recharge not an issue. Hydrogen would be clean used as either a Hybrid configuration or pure Hydrogen refueling will be as is now with gasoline or diesel fueled vehicles. I wonder if Test Track in EPCOT could be modified to showcase Hydrogen powered vehicles?

Maybe swap out the diesel fleet of the Tomorrowland Speedway, since this would presumably involve less re-engineering of the overall attraction. Those vehicles must need to be replaced at some point.

To keep us on topic, how about hydrogen-cell powered cooling units for distribution of the Pfizer vaccine, assuming it passes the regulatory hurdles?

 

[sullyinMT]

The range isn’t so much a deterrent for our household as it is recharge time. If we were going to say SLC for a regional swim tournament and needed to stop halfway for a charge or a fill-up, ICE still wins in that situation as it doesn’t involve hours and ensuring that wherever we stop for lunch has a charge station.
The big game changer beyond charge times for rural America, if it pans out, is the all electric F150 coming online in a couple model years. That thing looks like a small diesel electric train on paper, and could theoretically take quite a few “heavy duty” consumer trucks off the roads.

 

[GoofGoof]

While the exhaust from the vehicle is only water vapor, there are other emissions from producing, storing and transporting the hydrogen. Yes, some can be produced from renewable energy but it is less efficient than just taking that energy and charging batteries with it. Earth doesn't have anywhere that you can drill for hydrogen.



Battery cost needs to come down for electric vehicles to become more mainstream. The range anxiety isn't really an issue with 250+ mile range and rapid charging becoming more available. Having 1,000 mile range (which is hardly ever needed) will just add cost and weight so improvements in battery technology will be used to reduce the cost of the battery packs by reducing the number of cells needed to get 250-350 mile range.

I wouldn't buy an electric vehicle if liked cross country driving but 250 miles will get you to WDW from just about anywhere in FL and you can charge it up upon arrival (in the parking lot).

I'm not sure how this thread ended up discussing hydrogen and battery powered electric cars but I figure it is less likely to get a condescending insult from @Sirwalterraleigh on this topic so I might as well reply.

The battery technology will improve over time so cheaper, lighter and more power stored with faster recharge time. If you could either charge way less frequently or more importantly charge quickly that makes electric vehicles more likely to catch on in every day life. People are creatures of habit. I know I can stop just about anywhere and fill up my gas tank in 5 mins, when electric vehicles get to that point then they have every possibility to put gasoline engines out of business. As the technology improves the cost comes down too.

 

[sullyinMT]

Maybe swap out the diesel fleet of the Tomorrowland Speedway, since this would presumably involve less re-engineering of the overall attraction. Those vehicles must need to be replaced at some point.

To keep us on topic, how about hydrogen-cell powered cooling units for distribution of the Pfizer vaccine, assuming it passes the regulatory hurdles?

Tomorrowland could seriously use a vehicle technology update. Sitting in the shadow of Tron it will be a real earsore and the smell ...
So much nostalgia with letting the littles drive, but the tech does need to catch up.

 

[Parker in NYC]

This election is over (maybe) but there will be mid terms in 2022 and another Presidential election in 2024. We will see what Joe actually does but if he does what the scare tactics said he would do, it will be used against him and his party in those elections.

It doesn't matter what really causes the oil price to rise or drop. If Joe bans fracking on federal land and then oil goes up to $120 per barrel for completely unrelated reasons, it will be an easy sell that he is the reason that gas now costs $4 a gallon. The overwhelming majority of voters don't understand the nuances of any issue.

Maybe. Wow, how surprising.

 

[DisneyCane]

The range isn’t so much a deterrent for our household as it is recharge time. If we were going to say SLC for a regional swim tournament and needed to stop halfway for a charge or a fill-up, ICE still wins in that situation as it doesn’t involve hours and ensuring that wherever we stop for lunch has a charge station.
The big game changer beyond charge times for rural America, if it pans out, is the all electric F150 coming online in a couple model years. That thing looks like a small diesel electric train on paper, and could theoretically take quite a few “heavy duty” consumer trucks off the roads.

Although it is ridiculously expensive, the upcoming electric Hummer will beat the F150 by at least a year and looks like quite the truck! If it was $40k cheaper I might be able to consider it.

 

[GoofGoof]

Since this is supposed to be the Covid thread I created a new one to talk about the energy future which to me is a lot more pleasant and hopeful a topic. It’s in the politics section so don’t hold back

Energy Future

I wanted to add this thread to keep the energy talk out of the Covid thread. I think it’s a good topic and obviously gets into politics so moved it here. Feel free to talk about anything energy related. We were specifically talking about renewable power, electric cars and fracking in the...

forums.wdwmagic.com

 

[Kevin_W]

The range isn’t so much a deterrent for our household as it is recharge time. If we were going to say SLC for a regional swim tournament and needed to stop halfway for a charge or a fill-up, ICE still wins in that situation as it doesn’t involve hours and ensuring that wherever we stop for lunch has a charge station.
The big game changer beyond charge times for rural America, if it pans out, is the all electric F150 coming online in a couple model years. That thing looks like a small diesel electric train on paper, and could theoretically take quite a few “heavy duty” consumer trucks off the roads.

Recharging a Tesla doesn't take hours either. ~15 minutes to get to 50% and ~45 minutes to get to 90% charge. Longer than an ICE, certainly, but depending on the trip maybe not by much. EV's today are still not the car for the couple percent of people routinely driving more than 2-300 miles a day. For people like me (1-2 road trip out of state in a year), they work great. My trip was Columbus to Nashville. We left and drove to Lexington, charged the car while we were eating in Lexington, then drove the rest of the way. No significant time added.

 

[GoofGoof]

Getting back to Covid...I saw a news report today that roughly 1 in 30 people in El Paso currently has Covid. That means for every Thanksgiving dinner with 30+ people there is statistically 1 person present with Covid. That’s a pretty morbid thought. I know the numbers aren’t that bad everywhere, but it highlights how bad community spread is in some places. Their percent positive was over 20% so really not good

 

[Heppenheimer]

Getting back to Covid...I saw a news report today that roughly 1 in 30 people in El Paso currently has Covid. That means for every Thanksgiving dinner with 30+ people there is statistically 1 person present with Covid. That’s a pretty morbid thought. I know the numbers aren’t that bad everywhere, but it highlights how bad community spread is in some places. Their percent positive was over 20% so really not good

Not that it was ever a real possibility, but that might put a the dent in the suggestions to move Disneyland to Texas that became popular on a different thread.

 

[techgeek]

Getting back to Covid...I saw a news report today that roughly 1 in 30 people in El Paso currently has Covid. That means for every Thanksgiving dinner with 30+ people there is statistically 1 person present with Covid. That’s a pretty morbid thought. I know the numbers aren’t that bad everywhere, but it highlights how bad community spread is in some places. Their percent positive was over 20% so really not good

Just taking a glance at a national cases heat map, all of a sudden a thanksgiving at WDW (or even better, Disneyland!) looks pretty good compared to staying at home for much of the country.

 

[GoofGoof]

welllllllll Florida Universities do conduct fuel cell research (PS what are the requirements to post in political threads? aka the new energy one?)

The only requirement is that you agree with anything I say It’s in the politics sub-forum so feel free to talk about politics with less restraint than here.

Back to COVID... with the idea that "a vaccine is out so covid is finished" I'm wondering how many people are going to change their thanksgiving plans to group events?

I was hoping the opposite. That the prospect of an effective vaccine being readily available in 6 months or less would cause people to buckle down and ride it out. We were talking about waiting until everyone gets vaccinated and then re-creating Thanksgiving and/or Christmas and/or New Year’s Eve in July or something. I might even setup a Christmas tree for it and do a count down to midnight. What a great celebration it could be.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Just taking a glance at a national cases heat map, all of a sudden a thanksgiving at WDW (or even better, Disneyland!) looks pretty good compared to staying at home for much of the country.

View attachment 511909

Looks like SW Utah and Northern Alaska are the places to be!

Odd that they put the circle directly in the middle of the island of Hawaii, since virtually nobody lives on that portion of the island.

 

[DisneyTransport]

The only requirement is that you agree with anything I say It’s in the politics sub-forum so feel free to talk about politics with less restraint than here.

It says I "have insufficient privileges to reply here"... so is there some sort of WDWmagic ritual or sacrifice I need to perform to gain access?

I was hoping the opposite. That the prospect of an effective vaccine being readily available in 6 months or less would cause people to buckle down and ride it out. We were talking about waiting until everyone gets vaccinated and then re-creating Thanksgiving and/or Christmas and/or New Year’s Eve in July or something. I might even setup a Christmas tree for it and do a count down to midnight. What a great celebration it could be.

I wish that was the general consensus!