Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[oceanbreeze77]

or disprove my hope.

I honestly dont know what I'm going to do if this happens.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Just to clarify CFAs are not owned by the "owner operator". They use the term franchised very loosely. Corporate CFA owns all the locations in their entirety: building, land, equipment, etc. Each CFA location brings in around $4M a year and the "owner operator" is lucky to see $200,000 from that. Not saying that $200,000 isn't a lot. Just that the CFA stores are more lucrative for corporate than the "owner operators".

I believe you...but if you see lines at lunch at the chick in mt. Laurel, NJ...it brings in about $4,000,000 an hour

 

[sullyinMT]

...my reputation proceeds me (but disneycp isn’t aware of it )...

No, I was dead serious. You consistently provide a different perspective that is interesting.

I appreciate that. My life experience (like most of us in the position to be bellyaching about Disney’s operations and punching a keyboard in this time of global crisis) has taught me to give ALMOST everyone the benefit of the doubt. I’ve found most people really do want to do the right thing when presented WHY they should. Even one of our regular physicians here on the board, who is clearly an intelligent human, admitted recently that they played this down in their own head early on. But data and evidence allowed them to adapt and change.
Sometimes status gets thrown around as making some superior than others, and that goes nowhere. Money and education don’t hold a monopoly on doing the right thing. But people need appropriate leadership responses to know what to do, for the most part. That’s where we’ve failed most agregiously, imo. Some leaders come across as smug or overbearing. Some stare off and smile like they don’t know how they got their socks on this morning. And one in particular has acted like MENSA crowned him the all-knowing. For whatever the policy response (or what they intended) has been, from nation to state to county, the messaging response has been FAR worse.

 

[sullyinMT]

All of this Chik-fil-A talk needs to stop. There isn’t one around me for miles, and being from Atlanta, this is my biggest complaint in life. My freedom to get a decent chicken sandwich or some nuggies has been taken from me because my wife wanted to be “where we could make a difference”

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Could you share the article please?

The original article appeared in the Daily Beast, but behind a paywall. Here's a different one that quotes the original.

Officials in Trump's administration say, despite public denial, that the president is actually pushing for a herd-immunity strategy for COVID-19

Marc Lipsitch, an epidemiologist, said in August that herd immunity "is not a strategy or a solution" but "surrender to a preventable virus."

www.businessinsider.com

(The Daily Beast rates as mostly factual on mediabiasfactcheck.com)

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Courts are closed due to covid - case can't progress....

Exactly. Our Town Hall stayed closed way longer than most businesses...wonder why.

(Snark not directed at you.)

 

[Chi84]

The major cities are probably unique in the amount of commuter traffic and business meals that aren’t there. But, in the greater Chicagoland area, how are suburbs like Schaumburg and Elgin now that people who can are working from home more? I’m honestly asking because in my head I imagine a shift in business

Schaumburg has a lot of office buildings and chain restaurants, but I noticed that even a Panera went out there. I'm in Chicago near Rosemont, and I've seen several small neighborhood restaurants close, including one of our favorites, Mia Passione. We "adopted" a small, family-owned restaurant near us (Nonna Silvia's) - we get delivery from them every week or so, add a bottle of wine or two from their list, include a generous tip and add to the delivery charge. It's a small thing, but I hope it helps. They are very appreciative.

I've also noticed some smaller restaurants in Oak Brook that appear to have closed permanently. Can't tell you about Elgin. I suspect that people working from home are usually ordering lunch, and probably from quick service places like Panera, Buona Beef, Portillo's etc. instead of ordering from the family-owned places that are most likely to close. The type of "business meals" that people get downtown are probably just not happening since people are not meeting up.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

See my comment above about fast food places (which I consider coffee shops to be).

Ok. Well what small businesses are you talking about? I used coffee shops as an example of real life small businesses in my town.

I’m really hoping most of the country thinks like me

I can assure you that roughly 50% of the country thinks the opposite of you.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Several people here seem happy (almost eager), to bash the USA. Shame. Sadly, they are the same people who have literally lived their every waking moment on this thread for the last 7 months.

This thread is their ENTIRE life. They lay and wait to justify each other's vitriol by outright ridiculing any form of opposition.

A Disney fan forum is their battle ground to discredit the very country that has provided them with every freedom to have the ability to speak their mind and express their 1st Amendment right without penalty. But don't disagree with them or else you're "lazy". Say what they say, do as they do. Or else!

These people are cowards. Easily manipulated. Easily influenced. Pawns. Nothing more.

Some of us who are critical of the way the US has responded have served a decade or more in the military defending this country and its way of life. Including combat deployments.

This vet, though, doesn't equate loving the country with regarding it as being beyond criticism. As I've said before, we do quite a bit right in the US, but compared to our peers, we do some things very poorly. Our response to COVID-19 is one of those things we haven't gotten right.

Having lived four different countries, my perspective is that we aren't quite the Shining City on a Hill that some of us seem to believe without question.

 

[Tink242424]

People crave certainty and control, and this virus is incompatible with both of those things. With respect to "control," you're on a WDW planning site where people have been trained to map out every detail of their vacations years in advance, so your audience probably doesn't include the "let's give it time and see what happens" crowd. They'll admit to not knowing what will happen, then say "sorry to tell you this, but [insert whatever]" is going to happen.

I support all the current restrictions, including mask-wearing, and don't agree with those advocating herd immunity, but I've still been the subject of (a) through (c) (possibly (d) too and I didn't understand it) because I've suggested that requiring people to wear masks in public is not the cure people want it to be. In Illinois, we have had a mask mandate since the beginning of May and from what I see people are complying with it. Nevertheless, we had a major spike in July and another is taking place now.

From what I have been hearing, the major spread is occurring because people are starting to ignore the advice to stay away from each other and have started gathering in restaurants and homes. The governor has just reinstated a ban on indoor dining, which the restaurants vehemently oppose. Their point is that if people are gathering in public, their behavior can be monitored and regulated - closing the restaurants just leads to people gathering in homes, where they are almost certainly not following COVID precautions. We need to find an effective message - some way to reach these people - if it's at all possible.

I actually agree with your statement a lot. I also think we are having more spread with the masks then people think as this virus is highly contagious. I'm not convinced masks help but even if I think they do they aren't 100% effective and can still have spread within communities.

I think it is REALLY hard to ask people not to socialize for months or years on end with no real end in sight. I get why it is being asked but I also see why people are not complying. Who wants to live their life like that for a long time? Social isolation creates a lot of depression and anxiety as well as you never know when someone you love could contract COVID and die and you may not have been able to see them for months. I don't have a good answer other than to say let everyone make the decision for themselves and then use the other mitigation efforts for when people are in public. And of course I have to state or people will assume - if someone is not feeling sick or is sick they need to isolate and also to let all the other people they have been around know that they are sick. That is the right thing to do.

 

[dreday3]

Schaumburg has a lot of office buildings and chain restaurants, but I noticed that even a Panera went out there. I'm in Chicago near Rosemont, and I've seen several small neighborhood restaurants close, including one of our favorites, Mia Passione. We "adopted" a small, family-owned restaurant near us (Nonna Silvia's) - we get delivery from them every week or so, add a bottle of wine or two from their list, include a generous tip and add to the delivery charge. It's a small thing, but I hope it helps. They are very appreciative.

I've also noticed some smaller restaurants in Oak Brook that appear to have closed permanently. Can't tell you about Elgin. I suspect that people working from home are usually ordering lunch, and probably from quick service places like Panera, Buona Beef, Portillo's etc. instead of ordering from the family-owned places that are most likely to close. The type of "business meals" that people get downtown are probably just not happening since people are not meeting up.

Am I the only one eating Ramen for lunch while I work from home? Sometimes I make a sandwich...

 

[Tink242424]

Another well written article on herd immunity. The more studies.. the more I hear epidemiologists talk about it’s not the way to go, the more I think it shouldn’t even be brought up. It’s a very fine read.

Herding People to Slaughter: The Dangerous Fringe Theory behind the Great Barrington Declaration and Push toward Herd Immunity

Officials at the highest levels are discussing the possibility of caving in on controlling the coronavirus and instead letting it run rampant throughout the United States until we reach “herd immunity,” the point where the virus runs out of people to infect. More than 6,200 scientists, health profes

blog.ucsusa.org

This is really more opinion than science. There is nothing in science that says hundreds of people dying is un-scientific.

This just goes back to people having different perspectives. On the far side is letting everything wide open and let the disease rip through the Earths population and likely in 6 months or less we would be out of the pandemic. Lots of people would die but the pandemic would be over since anyone left will have been naturally immune or they had the virus and recovered. There are a lot of reasons why as humans we shy away from this but it is a viable option (again not a good option but an option nonetheless).

And then there is the full other side of the argument that even 1 virus death is too much and we need to protect everyone from getting sick. Again this would have to have an extreme reaction that most likely no one on Earth would tolerate and it would have a significant amount of deaths too.

So humanity has tried to forge the middle of the road option where the virus is still spreading but hopefully at a level where hospital resources are never overwhelmed and we can hopefully control the number of people who die.

That blog is not science fact it is science opinion.

 

[sullyinMT]

Some of us who are critical of the way the US has responded have served a decade or more in the military defending this country and its way of life. Including combat deployments.

This vet, though, doesn't equate loving the country with regarding it as being beyond criticism. As I've said before, we do quite a bit right in the US, but compared to our peers, we do some things very poorly. Our response to COVID-19 is one of those things we haven't gotten right.

Having lived four different countries, my perspective is that we aren't quite the Shining City on a Hill that some of us seem to believe without question.

Well said. Questioning something doesn’t equal thinking it’s evil. It could very well mean you care enough to see it do better.
There is a real cult mentality in the extremes. People would do well to change off of (insert whatever media outlet here) and go have an uncomfortable but constructive conversation with a neighbor whose candidates’ signs don’t align with yours (in the driveway or garage now that it’s winter up north). Sit down, keep your space, share a beer and reconnect as humans. It’s what we’ve lost most in this. And it might help your neighbor understand why they need to help, not hurt, this nation we all love.

 

[Jwink]

What are our thoughts on DLP shutting down again? Do we think it could/should/will happen at WDW?

 

[Tink242424]

Herd immunity in the absence of a vaccine is complete bunk. It’s a belief held only by those who think nothing we do can modify risk.

Now who is anti-science... If only you had any idea how the human body actually worked. Thanks alot for the chuckle!!

 

[dreday3]

What are our thoughts on DLP shutting down again? Do we think it could/should/will happen at WDW?

Anything could happen.

I don't think it should happen unless it's the very last possible thing that could help. I think it will be more along cases get so high the people just stop going again.

 

[Jwink]

Anything could happen.

I don't think it should happen unless it's the very last possible thing that could help. I think it will be more along cases get so high the people just stop going again.

Yeah Disney has been safer than most places according to my husband... I do think it’s possibly coming if we keep trending up instead of down

 

[Tink242424]

Is that why all of the professionals are deeply worried about using herd immunity as a strategy right now??

Umm, no. It is because of the high death rate.

 

[Touchdown]

Now who is anti-science... If only you had any idea how the human body actually worked. Thanks alot for the chuckle!!

I don’t know everything but after medical school, residency and now 7+ years of practice I bet I know more then you.

 

[Heppenheimer]

This is really more opinion than science. There is nothing in science that says hundreds of people dying is un-scientific.

This just goes back to people having different perspectives. On the far side is letting everything wide open and let the disease rip through the Earths population and likely in 6 months or less we would be out of the pandemic. Lots of people would die but the pandemic would be over since anyone left will have been naturally immune or they had the virus and recovered. There are a lot of reasons why as humans we shy away from this but it is a viable option (again not a good option but an option nonetheless).

And then there is the full other side of the argument that even 1 virus death is too much and we need to protect everyone from getting sick. Again this would have to have an extreme reaction that most likely no one on Earth would tolerate and it would have a significant amount of deaths too.

So humanity has tried to forge the middle of the road option where the virus is still spreading but hopefully at a level where hospital resources are never overwhelmed and we can hopefully control the number of people who die.

That blog is not science fact it is science opinion.

No, this is also opinion, and not even well informed opinion. We have never achieved widespread, lasting herd immunity from any human infectious disease in history without a vaccine. Before the measles and mumps vaccine, the closest we got were very localized, temporary herd immunity from those diseases. But it was never lasting, and it resulted in morbidity and mortality that would be unacceptable today. Allowing the excess, preventable death of several million human beings is not a "viable option".

And the other side of the argument is not "even 1 virus death is too much" and you know it.