Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[disneycp]

How many people lost their job due to those evil lockdowns vs lost their job because our government failed to control this virus and has continued to ravage this country for 7+ months?

Just food for thought, I would love to see someone breakdown that question.

My thought on that is that the only way to really “control” a virus is to keep things locked down and have people stay home as much as possible; the second you open things back up, cases are going to spring up again because we’re dealing with a highly contagious virus. You’d probably have to keep that up until a vaccine. But that approach also would have lost a lot of jobs, so it’s not a cure for that.

I think the argument of “if we had just locked down harder for a few more weeks, this would be over with by now” is extremely flawed. At the very least, we would have had to lock down for a lot longer than a few weeks. Now that things are so out of control, I don’t see the point in locking down for “2 more weeks” because, like I said, cases would just go back up at the end when things reopened again

 

[Touchdown]

I didn’t suggest it would be over, but it’s clear Europe (who is far more densely populated then the US) and Canada locked down longer and kept some restrictions in place that allowed them to have a far better summer. While numbers are going up inagain there and they are about to lockdown again, it doesn’t erase what happened this summer and I’m sure officials are hoping a short lockdown will return them to summer levels.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

My thought on that is that the only way to really “control” a virus is to keep things locked down and have people stay home as much as possible; the second you open things back up, cases are going to spring up again because we’re dealing with a highly contagious virus. You’d probably have to keep that up until a vaccine. But that approach also would have lost a lot of jobs, so it’s not a cure for that.

I think the argument of “if we had just locked down harder for a few more weeks, this would be over with by now” is extremely flawed. At the very least, we would have had to lock down for a lot longer than a few weeks. Now that things are so out of control, I don’t see the point in locking down for “2 more weeks” because, like I said, cases would just go back up at the end when things reopened again

I don’t remember anyone here saying it if we locked down longer and harder “ it would be over by now “. I have heard we could have controlled it more.. less deaths..been in a better situation now.. but not that it would be over. Unless I missed those posts.

 

[disneycp]

I don’t remember anyone here saying it would be over by now if we locked down longer and harder “ it would be over by now “. I have heard we could have controlled it more.. less deaths..been in a better situation now.. but not that it would be over. Unless I missed those posts.

I actually know this off the top of my head luckily! One of the first posts I ever made here was in response to SWR saying, and I quote:

“But if the average human misses out on 6 months (which is all it would have taken) on a 90 Year lifespan...I don’t know that’s a bad trade?“

Now only he can speak to what he meant by that, but it seems to read like “this only would have taken 6 months of lockdowns and then we’d be done with it.”

I’m sure there’s other examples because I’ve seen this argument used a hundred times but I’ll let you do some research of your own

 

[Chi84]

Yes, I agree (and said so already) that the CDC may very well change their recommendation and the WHO sets their age older already.

As far as I know the major theme park companies (Disney, Universal, Sea World, Busch Gardens, Six Flags) all have the same policy around age for masks as well as the major airlines. In the Orlando market I know LEGOLAND has no mask requirement. All those companies are falling back on CDC and public health official guidelines and it’s my opinion that if/when the CDC revises their guidelines than most if not all of these companies will update their policies. Is it possible that Disney or others will change the policy before the CDC moves on it, yes sure, but IMHO its not very likely.

You said all this already too. Sometimes people disagree with you no matter how right you think you are. It's possible that some are just a bit more optimistic than others. That's okay too. There's room for a little optimism in this thread - masks will always be there for those who want to wear them. Why argue over whether what one person doesn't know is more likely than what another person doesn't know?

 

[ImperfectPixie]

You said all this already too. Sometimes people disagree with you no matter how right you think you are. It's possible that some are just a bit more optimistic than others. That's okay too. There's room for a little optimism in this thread - masks will always be there for those who want to wear them. Why argue over whether what one person doesn't know is more likely than what another person doesn't know?

Because we're in a pandemic. Because science is the only way we're going to see the end of this. Because too many are grasping onto fringe conspiracy theories because they fit what they "wish" could be instead of reality. Because misinformation has been flooding the world since the day the virus infected the first patient.

Keeping cases low so that businesses can remain as open as possible and people can keep working should be EVERYONE'S goal. The only way to accomplish that is to 1) wear a mask, 2) social distance, 3) wash your hands, 4) avoid large gatherings, especially indoors.

This has to be a team effort...and far too many people only care about their own wants and opinions and it's going to cause us all to suffer more and longer.

 

[disneycp]

I didn’t suggest it would be over, but it’s clear Europe (who is far more densely populated then the US) and Canada locked down longer and kept some restrictions in place that allowed them to have a far better summer. While numbers are going up inagain there and they are about to lockdown again, it doesn’t erase what happened this summer and I’m sure officials are hoping a short lockdown will return them to summer levels.

Sorry, I didn’t think you implied things would be over, it’s just an argument I’m used to seeing when discussing questions like yours.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I actually know this off the top of my head luckily! One of the first posts I ever made here was in response to SWR saying, and I quote:

“But if the average human misses out on 6 months (which is all it would have taken) on a 90 Year lifespan...I don’t know that’s a bad trade?“

Now only he can speak to what he meant by that, but it seems to read like “this only would have taken 6 months of lockdowns and then we’d be done with it.”

I’m sure there’s other examples because I’ve seen this argument used a hundred times but I’ll let you do some research of your own

I guess you can read that to the point of what you think he meant. It can be read a few ways I get it. But with it being so vague I’ll stick by what I said.

 

[MaryJaneP]

You said all this already too. Sometimes people disagree with you no matter how right you think you are. It's possible that some are just a bit more optimistic than others. That's okay too. There's room for a little optimism in this thread - masks will always be there for those who want to wear them. Why argue over whether what one person doesn't know is more likely than what another person doesn't know?

"Masks will always be there for those who want to wear them" highlights one of the problems. Masks are probably more effectively worn by those who do not want to wear them and by those who are or may be infectious. Maybe everyone should wear a mask, from age 2 to infinity and beyond.

 

[Kevin_W]

There are a few articles on why it’s happening from thinking they had it under control and opening more to a few other things. But this paragraph from one of the articles seems to be in almost every article I read.

Europe clamped down hard on the pandemic this spring, and the payoff was a summer that was more normal than many people had expected,” wrote my colleague Michael Birnbaum. “But by the end of August, infections were again on the rise, with more cases concentrated among younger people — who perhaps considered the virus a more remote threat. Now it is spreading to their parents and grandparents, and medical systems are beginning to feel the strain.”

Sounds like I’ve heard this before.

Right, but the other part of the question is: what are India and Brazil doing right?

 

[GoofGoof]

You said all this already too. Sometimes people disagree with you no matter how right you think you are. It's possible that some are just a bit more optimistic than others. That's okay too. There's room for a little optimism in this thread - masks will always be there for those who want to wear them. Why argue over whether what one person doesn't know is more likely than what another person doesn't know?

I don’t know where you are coming from. It seems like you may be the one who has an issue with people having a different opinion. I never said I was right about anything, it’s my opinion on what I think Disney will or won’t do in the future. I offered an explanation on what I’m basing my opinion on and you somehow got from that the idea that I was saying I think I am right. You are free to have whatever opinion you want and base it on optimism or whatever you want to base it on. If you don’t care to discuss things or hear from someone with a different opinion just don’t respond or use the ignore feature.

 

[GoofGoof]

I’m in Florida but I know a lot of people at Disneyland/Universal in California.

Yes, in some states bars and restaurants aren’t fully open and obviously DLR but the vast majority of the millions of people unemployed today are from the pandemic not from lockdowns.

 

[Chi84]

"Masks will always be there for those who want to wear them" highlights one of the problems. Masks are probably more effectively worn by those who do not want to wear them and by those who are or may be infectious. Maybe everyone should wear a mask, from age 2 to infinity and beyond.

Forever and ever amen. I wasn't suggesting that people not wear masks right now or where they are required - just the opposite. But the day will come when Disney modifies or abandons the mask requirement. No one knows when that day may come. At that point, people who are so committed to masks can wear them, everyone, "from age 2 to infinity and beyond." No one is going to take the masks away.

 

[bdearl41]

My thought on that is that the only way to really “control” a virus is to keep things locked down and have people stay home as much as possible; the second you open things back up, cases are going to spring up again because we’re dealing with a highly contagious virus. You’d probably have to keep that up until a vaccine. But that approach also would have lost a lot of jobs, so it’s not a cure for that.

I think the argument of “if we had just locked down harder for a few more weeks, this would be over with by now” is extremely flawed. At the very least, we would have had to lock down for a lot longer than a few weeks. Now that things are so out of control, I don’t see the point in locking down for “2 more weeks” because, like I said, cases would just go back up at the end when things reopened again

Europe is proving your point correct. History tells us pandemics run their course and that there is not much you can do about it.

 

[GoofGoof]

Sorry, I didn’t think you implied things would be over, it’s just an argument I’m used to seeing when discussing questions like yours.

I think it’s a bit of a straw man argument. Just because someone posted that doesn’t mean at some point doesn’t mean that’s what people are saying.

I also think you have to look at the economic impact overall. The early lockdowns obviously shut down large parts of the economy, probably over 40%. But they were brief (in the macro economic sense) and never intended to be a permanent solution. The fact of the matter is not doing enough to keep the virus more in check had a negative impact on the economy too. It’s not a perfect analogy, but look at Europe or in a more extreme example S Korea or New Zealand. They did a much better job holding down the virus and their economies were all much more open and in much better shape than the US economy this summer. There is definitely a negative economic impact from not controlling the virus.

 

[MaryJaneP]

Forever and ever amen. I wasn't suggesting that people not wear masks right now or where they are required - just the opposite. But the day will come when Disney modifies or abandons the mask requirement. No one knows when that day may come. At that point, people who are so committed to masks can wear them, everyone, "from age 2 to infinity and beyond." No one is going to take the masks away.

"No one is going to take the masks away" does not seem to address the primary purpose masks are thought to serve.

Should Jason Turner have worn a mask last night? Should he have complied with the MLB Security request that he isolate after 2 positive covid tests? Should his teammates wear masks while he does not? Do masks hinder the spread?

 

[Miss Bella]

People have a right to earn a living and provide for their families.

Exactly! No lockdowns.

 

[danlb_2000]

My thought on that is that the only way to really “control” a virus is to keep things locked down and have people stay home as much as possible; the second you open things back up, cases are going to spring up again because we’re dealing with a highly contagious virus...

The blue line is where a lot of stuff re-opened in NJ and cases did not start going up when that happened.

 

[GoofGoof]

Europe is proving your point correct. History tells us pandemics run their course and that there is not much you can do about it.

Europe experienced a 4-5 month period prior to the start of their second wave where much of their economy was open, more than in the US over the same time. It’s proof that although the virus doesn’t go away, with effective control of it it’s possible to get most of your economy back and running between waves. Then you pull back and start the process over. Somehow in the US we got the idea that the plan has to be linear. We implement a response and the virus goes away for good, if it doesn’t go away than the response wasn’t worth doing.

 

[Chi84]

"No one is going to take the masks away" does not seem to address the primary purpose masks are thought to serve.

Should Jason Turner have worn a mask last night? Should he have complied with the MLB Security request that he isolate after 2 positive covid tests? Should his teammates wear masks while he does not? Do masks hinder the spread?

Yes, they do all that. That's why I didn't say mask requirements should be limited or abandoned right now. But when you say masks should be worn by everyone age 2 and above to infinity, it implies an ongoing need for masks in the future that I don't believe will exist. Right now: wear masks; in the future: wait and see. That's all I'm saying.