News Guardians of the Galaxy Cosmic Rewind attraction confirmed for Epcot

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
No-one is denying that Disney made mistakes in the '90s and '00s. But, whether those on this forum like it or not, additions/replacements like Soarin', Mission:Space, and Frozen Ever After are very popular and draw large numbers. This isn't a matter of taste or opinion -- it's just a fact. Surely even the most hardcore EPCOT purist will concede that Guardians of the Galaxy will prove a huge draw.
but is "Huge Draw" the only thing to consider when adding attractions to a beautifully themed, award winning park? I can garantee you that if they were putting in the General Electric Eco-magination Atom Smasher Coaster, it would be every bit as popular... People want rides....experiences... I think the IP is not completely necessary. Look at the popularity of Space Mountain to this day... No IP tied to it, and none necessary....
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
No, you just confirmed I was correct. You didn't experience the attractions in the time and place they were built for.. the mid 80s.

No, I didn't confirm that you were correct, because the point I was disputing was your assumption that I can only have seen these rides as a very young child, which turned out to be an error on your part.
Your opinion of the rides at the time really doesn't matter. The topic was what the general population was doing and why demand for them had waned.

Earlier in this thread, someone who did experience EPCOT multiple times in the '80s conceded that his/her friends found the park a chore rather than a joy. This was during its prime years. I'm not citing this as evidence of my being right -- it's anecdotal, after all -- but rather to show that even someone who was there during the earliest years can have a different perspective from yours. You are not all-knowing, and your views are not authoritative.
Instead of just keep retreating to 'well thats my opinion' when shown something counter to it, you might want to try research and study to improve your opinion.

And you might want to try keeping a civil tongue in your head. For someone who claims to treasure the original values of WDW, you exhibit levels of anger and rudeness that go against everything I associate with Disney.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Because the Great Movie Ride celebrated a concept that newer generations have zero interest in or limited appreciation. It celebrated the idea of the great moments and personalities of the golden age of hollywood.. and into the 40s. It anchored itself around huge personalities like John Wayne, Clark Gable, the admiration for that idealized image of the biggest, important films.

The 'golden age of hollywood' means nothing but a wikipedia entry to most people under 40.. and barely something to the majority under 50.

In the 80s there was a lot of nostalgia for the 1950s. That's when The Wizard of Oz became popular because it started playing every Thanksgiving on TV, and other movies from the 30s and 40s reached Baby Boomers for the first time. It's when movies like Singin' in the Rain and The Searchers were released. That same decade saw the advent and growth of home video and Turner Classic Movies. There was a widespread interest by parents and grandparents to show their children the movies they grew up on, because they finally had the means and access to do so. Disney was still releasing its older titles to theatres including two much hyped ones for Fantasia (1982 digital re-recording and 1990 50th Anniversary). Even old stars like Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly were being used in commercials.

Sadly now with so much media to choose from wherever and whenever you want, there's less of a reason to bother with "old movies".
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
but is "Huge Draw" the only thing to consider when adding attractions to a beautifully themed, award winning park?

No, it's not. And I never said I welcome this particular change to the park. I'm simply saying that no-one can reasonably call what Disney is doing unpopular with most people who attend the parks.
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
The tower has a roof now, so I think that puts to bed the idea that it might be a tower crane.

support for section of track that goes vertcial 90 degrees than stops and falls back down another track? i think those portions of coaster track are usually beefier no?
 

geekza

Well-Known Member
In the 80s there was a lot of nostalgia for the 1950s. That's when The Wizard of Oz became popular because it started playing every Thanksgiving on TV, and other movies from the 30s and 40s reached Baby Boomers for the first time.
I hate to disagree, but as someone who grew up in the 1970's and is a film buff, I can tell you that The Wizard of Oz was first televised in 1956 and became an annual event on television a few years after that. It has been popular for a loooong time prior to the 1980's. Also, classic Hollywood movies were a staple of early television as they were a fairly cheap method of filling time slots with content. Until cable stations like AMC (it used to actually show movies and stand for American Movie Classics) and, later, TCM came along, it wasn't uncommon to find old movies from the 30's, 40's, and up showing on local stations. Baby Boomers had pretty steady access to older movies on television. Once home video became a going concern in the early-1980's, there was certainly a wider availability of older films that could be watched whenever you wanted, but older films have been accessible on TV from very early on.
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
Some good points being made. Good conversation. Here's my brief history of the Disney theme park universe and why I think things are changing the way they are without my opinion. This is a big picture outlook, not an attempt by me to convince you that Horizons was the best dark ride ever built because it was the best dark ride ever built.

DL and its clones are the most popular theme parks on the planet. Full stop. Disney has tried other types of parks. They all make money. They are all a draw. But, for each the other theme parks, surverys, attendance numbers, etc. have never indicated that satisfaction and popularity were the same as DL and its clones.

Disney, over the years has built a four theme park complex in Florida. Each of the other parks has its fans. Each has its detractors. The same is true of MK of course, but the first group is bigger and the second group is smaller. They want the other 3 parks to be equal in popularity, or at least closer, but the question remains, how do you get there?

We've joked about it before (by we, I mostly mean me), but Disney knows it can't go the MK II, MK III, MK IV route in Florida. The popularity of the 3 lesser parks would suffer and the resort as a whole, due to redundancy. Thus, they're clearly trying to attract more people to each of the other parks with different strategies which amount to different ways to get some of that MK feel in the other parks in a calculated way designed to not completely agitate fans of the 3 other draws.

In the case of DAK, the strategy was straightforward. Build a beautiful land and add a couple of rides to a park that didn't have many rides. Base the land on an IP that the suits think is more popular than it is since ticket sales mean everything when you float above popular culture, occasionally dipping your ladle in to sample some of the likes and dislikes of the masses. Nonetheless, the popularity of the land is assured due to its quality. Further, the overall thematic integrity of the park will never be fully compromised since its pretty friggin' simple and people like animals.

With DHS, they're re-doing the whole thing. The golden age of Hollywood, the Hollywood that was and never will be, is going the way of the proverbial dodo. The thought process is that this can be done because surveys have shown that number of people who like that aspect are fewer than the number who just like RnR and ToT and don't care about the broader setting. So, stuff based on a movie...we're good to go. Just have an overall more adult oriented attraction lineup in a different setting than MK, and you're probably A-OK. (full disclosure: I still can't get my head wrapped around the fact the thesis statement ride of the park is going away...of course, the thesis is now a 4 page double spaced middle school paper that itself will soon be so covered with white out that it will be unreadable).

EPCOT....oh my. This one is hard. The people who love the place, really love it. Or loved it, really used to love it. It is so big...certainly, a few things for a broader audience can be stuck in there. What can we get rid of or change....surveys show this is the hardest one of all. It seems like a lot has to change for the broader appeal, but the park has the biggest niche following and if you alienate that niche, attendance may be OK, but things like in park spending really suffer. Maybe if food and wine is 8 months long we'll have time to think about it. A few cartoon rides set in WS countries and a few out of place but mildly thrilling things in FW...characters, more characters....there is always a sub-group of folk who want more Disney in EPCOT. Of course, EPCOT itself is Disney, but I digress. (Full disclosure: As some of you know, I fall into the category of really used to love it, but now I don't care if I go there when in the greater central Florida region. However, when I do go there I do manage to enjoy myself and not be a complete downer. Ask @Monty )

Another thing in the current climate is that the use of intellectual property tied into a movie (don't forget, World of Motion is IP) has gained ascendancy. Its not because its hard to come up with entertaining ideas for rides without a movie tie in (if you meet me in RL, I'll bet you I could come up with 5 ideas in 5 minutes for almost any concept that you throw out there), but because they've decided attractions need this. I'm not saying that rides and attractions based on movies are bad. I do think that the requirement may be bad....

So, where does this leave us? Well for one, it was pointed out to me the other day that you might as well throw out all the old imagineering books. I'm not sure if they're making all the right moves. But, they may be. WDW is still a big, grand place which is one of many things I've always liked about it. How do I feel about it? I dunno. In my case, I think the true test will be what happens after all the kids are out of the house.
 

geekza

Well-Known Member
UoE, yes, but how was SSE gutted? The Irons version is my favorite and I think the peak of SSE (and yes, I've seen every version of SSE except the first, pre-Cronkite version.
I honestly think that the only thing that has really suffered from updates to SSE is the top of the ride. The original space station scene and stars was breathtaking. Once it went away, the ride really lost an effective climax. The less said about the current video screens, the better.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
No, I didn't confirm that you were correct, because the point I was disputing was your assumption that I can only have seen these rides as a very young child, which turned out to be an error on your part.

I challenged if you experienced EPCOT center in the frame of reference we were discussing, and you proved you hadn't. 1996 missed the boat.

Earlier in this thread, someone who did experience EPCOT multiple times in the '80s conceded that his/her friends found the park a chore rather than a joy.

You won't find anyone who will say EVERYONE loved EPCOT's presentation. It was polarizing - everyone knows this. But that's really no different than people who want thrill rides vs POTC. It was a format that was relatively unique, and why 'edu-tainment' was coined. The stark 'no characters' approach was conflicting for many as well.

If you stick to the topic, which was the DECLINE - not if everyone liked it.. the topic of Edu-Tainment didn't kill Futureworld... it was EPCOT couldn't keep up, and the economies of how Disney funded attractions is a big part of it too. The shift away from corporations willing to spend tens of millions a year to sponsor things was a big factor in EPCOT's staleness.


For someone who claims to treasure the original values of WDW, you exhibit levels of anger and rudeness that go against everything I associate with Disney.

If you expect me to coddle your feelings or give you positive reenforcement when you're wrong - It's not going to happen. "its my feelings" or "my opinion" are not safe spaces. If that's rude to you... oh well.
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
Not here. That’s elsewhere in Orlando ;)

well yes i have heard about that but again was trying to guess why there needs to be such a beefy single structural tower ha. as an aside that paticular coaster your refrencing SOUNDS AMMMAZING like possibly the best ride yet over there.
 

Bender123

Well-Known Member
UoE, yes, but how was SSE gutted? The Irons version is my favorite and I think the peak of SSE (and yes, I've seen every version of SSE except the first, pre-Cronkite version.

I always thought that the Irons version was the best composite version of the ride...1st was the worst overall, Cronkite had the best descent and music, Irons was the best overall and current is middle going up and last on the way down.

Yes...I was on the original and it was dry and boring. You are better off just imagining it started with Walter.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
I think it’s reffering to 180top downwards.
Still think the Irons version was brilliant from that aspect. The score, the inspirational dialogue of the descent gave it a particularly epic feel. The sets could have been better but overall I consider that descent the best of them (with the Tomorrow's Child descent a *very* close second). But that's just my humble opinion.

What particularly was gutted in the descent in the '94 version?
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I challenged if you experienced EPCOT center in the frame of reference we were discussing

Nope, you didn't. Look through your posts and quote me the relevant passage if I'm wrong, and I'll gladly apologise.
If you expect me to coddle your feelings or give you positive reenforcement when you're wrong - It's not going to happen. "its my feelings" or "my opinion" are not safe spaces. If that's rude to you... oh well.

It's nothing to do with my feelings, which can certainly withstand the hostility of some random person on the internet who thinks he knows better than everyone else, and everything to do with good manners, which cost nothing and help people have fruitful and civil exchanges. And how is it my feelings that need coddling when you're the one who keeps throwing a hissy fit every time I disagree with you?
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
What particularly was gutted in the descent in the '94 version?
From the 86 to 94 version?

Boys room
Paperless office
Network control
Earth projection
Satellites
Space station
Rear projection side walls
Rear projection overhead screens and barco projectors
Laser and fibre optic system
Descent vortex walls and ceiling

94 to 07

Original cinema
TV lounge
Global neighbourhood
ascent corridor
Earth projection
Star projector
Space station (more)
First laser system
News projection system
Global classroom
Future city
Fibre optic system
Second Laser system
Painted SSE

-off the top of my head
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
I always thought that the Irons version was the best composite version of the ride...1st was the worst overall, Cronkite had the best descent and music, Irons was the best overall and current is middle going up and last on the way down.

Yes...I was on the original and it was dry and boring. You are better off just imagining it started with Walter.

I like the Cronkite version the best due to the grandiose script. "Behold the majesty of the Sistine ceiling." Plus, I just like his voice. I do enjoy the Irons version though. I don't think the first narrator quite had the voice to pull it off.
 

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