Why AP Holders are waiting in line for hours to pay $20....

[SuddenStorm]

Rude or not rude, it doesn't negate the fact that AP's do clog up the parks which I believe is a reason alone to end the AP program.

If they got rid of the AP program, they'd just lower the price of day tickets, offer more promotions and discounts, and do whatever else it took to keep the parks full. It's a given that if there were less people in the park, the guest experience would be better- but if AP's weren't "clogging the park", than there'd be a different group of attendees filling up the park.

With attractions that have Fastpass, the stand by line is stopped every 5 or so minutes to allow the Fastpass line to enter. This causes longer stand by lines. Like I mentioned earlier, when FP was added to both TSMM and the Matterhorn, they both saw wait times double.

Yes, the stand by time is increased, but if you use fastpass, you have the opportunity to wait far less. You might wait a bit longer for one ride, but if you have a fastpass, you'll be waiting far less time for another.

We also see that happen with HMH.

HMH's popularity is also due to the fact that it's a limited, seasonal overlay during the busiest time of the year. Hyperspace Mountain has the same surge in wait times. Haunted Mansion has had FP year round for a while now, and the stand by time is usually fairly reasonable. Is it longer than it'd be without Fastpass? Sure, but it also usually has a return time that's within an hour, so getting a Fastpass and practically walking on the ride is rarely an issue.

There's also an argument to be made that FP harms the artists' original designs as the interior queues for both Indiana Jones Adventure and Space Mountain.

I actually agree with this one. I hate being forced to walk through the beautiful interior of Indy (I care less about the queue for Space Mountain), and this is an issue I expect to be addressed in any attractions designed going forward. It's also a shame that with Fastpass, you skip Roger Rabbit's line entirely.

Another argument can also be made that FPs cause more clutter elsewhere in the park. While you virtually stand in line with your FP ticket, you are able to roam the park (filling walkways) or get on another attractions (longer lines elsewhere).

Seems like a bit of a win for the guest. Being able to wait in two lines at once, shop and experience little diversion while queuing seems like a plus to me? I'd rather spend time in a busy Disneyland (who's small walkways ALWAYS feel packed), than be stuck standing in line for the Matterhorn.

We can speculate all we want, but Disney continues to adjust and tailor the AP program to help control when crowds go- which seems to show that they love the program. I think most people like the AP program, and I expect further refinement before Star Wars opens.

Same goes with Fastpass. It continues to get enhanced, and is utilized in every Disney park now (I'm pretty sure), so someone somewhere seems to think that it's a plus. Remember- Disney didn't have Fastpass for about 40 years, I think they know it's impact on crowds and wait times, but continue to implement it anyway.

I did 40 attractions my last visit. Rope drop to close, and that definitely wouldn't have been possible had I been forced to wait stand by for everything. Anyone that chooses to wait in a long stand by line, instead of utilizing a fastpass only has them-self to blame.

 

[TROR]

If they got rid of the AP program, they'd just lower the price of day tickets, offer more promotions and discounts, and do whatever else it took to keep the parks full. It's a given that if there were less people in the park, the guest experience would be better- but if AP's weren't "clogging the park", than there'd be a different group of attendees filling up the park.

These are good things, Storm. I'm much happier knowing that the parks are full of people who might be experiencing it for the first time and never will get to again than knowing they're full of spoiled 20 year olds who go every week for the newest collectible they'll post on Instagram.

 

[SuddenStorm]

These are good things, Storm. I'm much happier knowing that the parks are full of people who might be experiencing it for the first time and never will get to again than knowing they're full of spoiled 20 year olds who go every week for the newest collectible they'll post on Instagram.

Disneyland has always been a local park with national appeal, and anyone that wants to go to Disneyland still has that option available to them today. But, as a local park, Disneyland relies on repeat visitors to bring guests. Even if they removed the AP program, it would still mostly be locals and repeat visitors going. The same people who are currently AP's.

As for the second part of your comment, you can't be serious?

I'd be very hesitant referring to people who spend quite a bit of money on something they're passionate about- Disneyland and Disney- "spoiled 20 year olds who go every week for the newest collectible they'll post on Instagram." since you don't agree with the way they enjoy the parks.

I'm not sure anyone on this forum has the right to criticize the way Disney fans enjoy the parks- there are people who would say

"I'm much happier knowing that the parks are full of people who might be experiencing it for the first time and never will get to again than knowing they're full of spoiled 20 year olds who complain about every little thing that happens at the park on an online forum."

I mean, good grief. What a miserable and toxic outlook on the people who attend Disneyland. I'm not someone who's interested in the newest limited food item or AP exclusive merchandise, but I'm not gonna disparage others for finding joy in it.

Everyone has the right to enjoy the park in their own way as long as they're not harming anyone else. It's really not our place to expect Disney to block out a subset of the fanbase purely because we think that others deserve it more than they do.

But for the sake of conversation, what do you consider a normal amount of times to visit Disneyland a year?

 

[Disney Irish]

These are good things, Storm. I'm much happier knowing that the parks are full of people who might be experiencing it for the first time and never will get to again than knowing they're full of spoiled 20 year olds who go every week for the newest collectible they'll post on Instagram.

Just so you know, those same guests that you call "spoiled 20 year olds". The same ones that spend $20 on the latest collectable are the ones that have been keeping P&R afloat....

Time and time again the DLR has been the resort that keeps P&R in the black. And its a direct result of those same "spoiled 20 year olds" APs that go week in and week out and spends money on those collectables. Disney knows this, and is the reason why they won't just end the AP outright.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Another round of AP complaints...

Guys and gals, no matter how much you may dislike APs, they are paying money to be there, just like other guests. If you have issues with how people tour the parks, please refrain from going. Those who complain about entitled APs and wish for them to disappear are also entitled. Disneyland is an American icon, and it is also a Southern California icon, and has been since its opening. It has a very unique status among locals, and if that’s too much for you to handle, stay home. If you don’t like crowds, head to your living room and catch up on some Netflix originals. If you’re looking for a typical vacation experience, stay away from the DLR.

Let people be.

 

[Jedi Stitch]

I don't know if Disneyland still has the great deal of the refillable cup they had back in circa 1989 or so. I went to Disneyland with my family when I was 14 or so. I had very small funds for myself. Disney had a refillable hard plastic cup with snap on lid and covered straw that came with a belt loop clip. you could big on the rides and was refillable at any drink cart back when they had soda fountain style carts. it was $2 then for the cup. Sound like the AP crowd are smart to buy a very cool collector bucket that also gives them refill for a buck option. At least with this one I can see a carry strap. in '16 all the BB8 buckets did not come with one.

 

[DanielBB8]

“If they got rid of the AP program, they'd just lower the price of day tickets, offer more promotions and discounts, and do whatever else it took to keep the parks full.“

Which is why they’ll never do it. While it might seem like Disney will come out ahead, it isn’t assured. Disney doesn’t discount. They are a premium product. With APs, they’re getting money ahead of time. They rather sell multi-day tickets instead of day passes. Keeping the parks crowded is how Disney is encouraged to keep building and making more money. There’s no profiting through discounting.

 

[Curious Constance]

Generally speaking, people are people and people can be rude. I was an AP for most my life, and never once considered it to be a source of entitlement. Most share a similar sentiment. There are always gonna be rude guests, whether they be AP holder's or not. I think the idea that AP's are horrible in the parks is blown out of proportion online. Most go and are unnoticed, but a few bad eggs ruin it for the rest of them.



This is something I've tried to debunk in the past, but I'll try again now.

The "it increases standby wait times" is only looking at once piece of a much bigger puzzle, since Fastpass in no way effects the capacity of the attraction. The same number of people are able to get on, some who wait as little as 5 minutes, and others who choose to wait 45. If fastpass limited the amount of people who were able to ride, there'd be a problem.

Let's say Space Mountain and Splash Mountain both have 100 minute waits (which isn't unusual). If someone has to wait in the 100 minute standby line for Space Mountain, if they have a Fastpass for Splash Mountain, they can skip that 100 minute line- which equates to about 50 minutes of waiting per ride. It essentially doubles the efficiency of your queue time.

Or, you can Fastpass every popular ride, limiting your stand by lines to the rides that don't have it- allowing you to do more in the day, and spend less time waiting in line.

So even if you end up waiting longer to ride something stand by, if you're using the Fastpass system you can still very easily come out ahead.

I'd hope that everyone on this forum utilizes Fastpass whenever possible, since it's a free service- everyone has the opportunity to benefit from it.

If everyone used Fastpass, the Fastpass tickets would run out very early in the day. Thereby making it impossible to get fastpasses much of the time. Then you'd have n choice but to do standby.

 

[TROR]

Disneyland has always been a local park with national appeal, and anyone that wants to go to Disneyland still has that option available to them today. But, as a local park, Disneyland relies on repeat visitors to bring guests. Even if they removed the AP program, it would still mostly be locals and repeat visitors going. The same people who are currently AP's.

Of course it would be. But they'd be guests, not residents.

As for the second part of your comment, you can't be serious?

I'd be very hesitant referring to people who spend quite a bit of money on something they're passionate about- Disneyland and Disney- "spoiled 20 year olds who go every week for the newest collectible they'll post on Instagram." since you don't agree with the way they enjoy the parks.

I'm not sure anyone on this forum has the right to criticize the way Disney fans enjoy the parks- there are people who would say

"I'm much happier knowing that the parks are full of people who might be experiencing it for the first time and never will get to again than knowing they're full of spoiled 20 year olds who complain about every little thing that happens at the park on an online forum."

I mean, good grief. What a miserable and toxic outlook on the people who attend Disneyland. I'm not someone who's interested in the newest limited food item or AP exclusive merchandise, but I'm not gonna disparage others for finding joy in it.

Everyone has the right to enjoy the park in their own way as long as they're not harming anyone else. It's really not our place to expect Disney to block out a subset of the fanbase purely because we think that others deserve it more than they do.

Only thing toxic here is the way millennial AP holders treat the parks as a hangout spot rather than a piece of art.

But for the sake of conversation, what do you consider a normal amount of times to visit Disneyland a year?

Once every other year.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

I must be the anti-AP AP'er since:
-I never use FP
-I never buy merch
-I keep my phone in my pocket

 

[Phroobar]

I must be the anti-AP AP'er since:
-I never use FP
-I never buy merch
-I keep my phone in my pocket

This is why we love you.

 

[TROR]

Oh boy! Time to go to Disneyland and wait for an hour to get my new sticker sheet!

 

[Rich T]

Oh boy! Time to go to Disneyland and wait for an hour to get my new sticker sheet!

 

[Deleted member 107043]

With Fastpass, they increase wait times as proven by the recent addition of them to TSMM and Matterhorn.

Right, but where would all those people go that are waiting in line virtually? I'm guessing they'd be in a standby line somewhere, thus waits would likely be just as long or longer.

The real solution is either lower the park's capacity limit or go back to a tiered system like coupon books that puts restrictions on which rides are accessible based on ticket bundles guests purchase with their admission.

 

[DanielBB8]

The real solution is either lower the park's capacity limit or go back to a tiered system like coupon books that puts restrictions on which rides are accessible based on ticket bundles guests purchase with their admission.

No, the real solution is putting on VR and have a virtual day at the parks while everyone else is enjoying themselves at the real parks. Living in dreamland works for many here. Back at the day when ticket books were the reality, Disney was at risk of a corporate takeover. Maybe Comcast can takeover Disney with these “solutions”.

 

[SuddenStorm]

The real solution is either lower the park's capacity limit or go back to a tiered system like coupon books that puts restrictions on which rides are accessible based on ticket bundles guests purchase with their admission.

I think the one day everything buys all admission lowered the individual value of each attraction- now, when people go, they expect to be able to do everything, without having to prioritize based on individual cost.

I'd be curious to see how a coupon book system could be reimplemented, what it's price points would be, and what the public response is- since I doubt many would be receptive.

Disney is trying to market the resort as a place to spend 3, 4, or 5 days- I doubt people who are spending hundreds, if not thousands, on hotel accommodations and food would be receptive to having to pay for the attractions, something that have been included in admission price for over 30 years.

But on your first point- I think to flip it, instead of lowering the park's capacity- they need to raise it. Lands like Galaxy's Edge, which will be slammed for the first few years, will eventually not be the big new thing- but the land and attractions will be able to entertain tens of thousands more people an hour. More rides like Pirates, the Haunted Mansion, and the Peoplemover- high capacity attractions that absorb thousands of guests at a time need to be constructed without taking away currently existing attractions.

 

[SuddenStorm]

“If they got rid of the AP program, they'd just lower the price of day tickets, offer more promotions and discounts, and do whatever else it took to keep the parks full.“

Which is why they’ll never do it. While it might seem like Disney will come out ahead, it isn’t assured. Disney doesn’t discount. They are a premium product. With APs, they’re getting money ahead of time. They rather sell multi-day tickets instead of day passes. Keeping the parks crowded is how Disney is encouraged to keep building and making more money. There’s no profiting through discounting.

I understand your point, but Disneyland very much does discount. They have this year, they did last year, they had tons of discounts in the 2000's when attendance was struggling. They're a premium product, but they still need to keep the crowds coming.

Ticket and admission prices make up a very small portion of the park's revenue- with food and merchandise picking up the slack. It's really just a gateway to help them control the crowds- which is why we've seen the introduction of tier based pricing for day tickets, as well as multiple tiers of AP's that have been revised multiple times.

When the park is super busy, they raise ticket prices. If, in 10 years, they're struggling to get people to come, they'll drop them. It's basic economics.

 

[DanielBB8]

I understand your point, but Disneyland very much does discount. They have this year, they did last year, they had tons of discounts in the 2000's when attendance was struggling. They're a premium product, but they still need to keep the crowds coming.

Ticket and admission prices make up a very small portion of the park's revenue- with food and merchandise picking up the slack. It's really just a gateway to help them control the crowds- which is why we've seen the introduction of tier based pricing for day tickets, as well as multiple tiers of AP's that have been revised multiple times.

When the park is super busy, they raise ticket prices. If, in 10 years, they're struggling to get people to come, they'll drop them. It's basic economics.

Yes, they discount multi-day tickets, but they don’t discount one day passes, which is why all Disneyland tickets begin well above $100. The APs are well above the industry average and the per day prices are lower if you go more often.

Disney isn’t struggling to get people to go with APs. Only selling day tickets will get them in this situation because people just don’t want to pay $97 to $135 with surge pricing. Day passes is a small percentage of how people pay to enter the parks.

Disney already dropped the prices for locals with the 2 or 3 day SoCal tickets.

“If they got rid of the AP program, they'd just lower the price of day tickets“

Won’t happen. The least you’ll pay is $159. “While the regular price for a one-day ticket on Sunday, Jan. 7 was $124, with the Southern California locals pass, visitors would pay $159 for two days at their choice of Disneyland or Disney California Adventure”

 

[Deleted member 107043]

But on your first point- I think to flip it, instead of lowering the park's capacity- they need to raise it. Lands like Galaxy's Edge, which will be slammed for the first few years, will eventually not be the big new thing- but the land and attractions will be able to entertain tens of thousands more people an hour. More rides like Pirates, the Haunted Mansion, and the Peoplemover- high capacity attractions that absorb thousands of guests at a time need to be constructed without taking away currently existing attractions.

Not a bad idea, but to do this would mean significant capital investment, the replacement of many popular clssic attractions, and take many years to complete before visitors would see relief from overcrowding. Disney could literally solve the issue tomorrow if it really wanted to by restructuring its admission program and/or strictly limiting the number of people admitted each day. It's not a complicated problem to solve.

 

[DanielBB8]

Maxpass would have the same effect of charging per ride and limiting attendance to each attraction. And the day pass is no guarantee you can go on any attraction. This discussion is about solving your problem, not Disneyland’s problem, which is actually capacity with parking and the public areas. They are making strides in solving them.