A Spirited Dirty Dozen ...

[ford91exploder]

Why is that a problem?

Because I can get a suite at the Hilton for the price of a parking lot view regular room at the Poly.

 

[ford91exploder]

Isn't he comparing like to like? holiday weekends inflate the prices at Disney and in major cities. He also checked a regular weekend for comparison.



$200/night for a high demand location, high demand weekend for a clean/nicely decorated hotel room doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me. I mean, sure, WDW hotels are overpriced, but they are overpriced the same way in demand hotels are anywhere.

Maybe others have different experiences, but a clean (i.e. not roach motel type) basic chain hotel that's "somewhere" (like in a non-downtown area of a city, as opposed to the side of the road places in the middle of nowhere) but not really in demand is probably going to run you $99 a night in general. A similar quality place in somewhere with actual demand that tourists make efforts to travel to being $150-200 a night seems about where I would expect.

Now people can say they are "not worth it" for what you get. I'm not disagreeing, but that's a different argument that the prices are somehow out of whack with the rest of the hospitality industry, which I do not think it the case.

Trouble is Disney's pricing is FAR out of whack with other comparable properties, A parking lot view room at the poly is the same price as a suite at Hilton/Marriott. Yes location but Hilton/Marriott have far better amenities provided to the guest.

Staying in a suite in the Hilton if I want a limo to take me somewhere the front desk will get it for me. At Disney the desk will simply laugh.

 

[AEfx]

Don't be so shallow and pedantic. There was once a good balance. Obviously no one is saying Disney should charge $60 night for a resort room. But when you consider the high cost of a park ticket (especially park hopper) plus high priced food, and then throw in an extremely overpriced resort room Thays ready 30% off but still $300 per night, you find yourself feeling choked with the cost and just want some type of a break.

I think what else is affecting folks is how quickly prices have increased. Ten years ago, those Value resorts *did* go for $60 a night. Rack rate was like $79. I remember paying $54/57 with my AP to stay at Pop on multiple occasions.

Admission has gone up incredibly. Food has gone up Incredibly. Both have nearly doubled in a lot of cases.

Yes, some will say prices on everything have gone up in life - in some cases true, but you are hard pressed to find anything that has gone up with such vigor and yet the quality and offerings have such steadily declined.

 

[Bairstow]

I think what else is affecting folks is how quickly prices have increased. Ten years ago, those Value resorts *did* go for $60 a night. Rack rate was like $79. I remember paying $54/57 with my AP to stay at Pop on multiple occasions.

Admission has gone up incredibly. Food has gone up Incredibly. Both have nearly doubled in a lot of cases.

Yes, some will say prices on everything have gone up in life - in some cases true, but you are hard pressed to find anything that has gone up with such vigor and yet the quality and offerings have such steadily declined.

And still attendance and occupancy continues to climb.

 

[jpeden]

Isn't he comparing like to like? holiday weekends inflate the prices at Disney and in major cities. He also checked a regular weekend for comparison.



$200/night for a high demand location, high demand weekend for a clean/nicely decorated hotel room doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me. I mean, sure, WDW hotels are overpriced, but they are overpriced the same way in demand hotels are anywhere.

Maybe others have different experiences, but a clean (i.e. not roach motel type) basic chain hotel that's "somewhere" (like in a non-downtown area of a city, as opposed to the side of the road places in the middle of nowhere) but not really in demand is probably going to run you $99 a night in general. A similar quality place in somewhere with actual demand that tourists make efforts to travel to being $150-200 a night seems about where I would expect.

Now people can say they are "not worth it" for what you get. I'm not disagreeing, but that's a different argument that the prices are somehow out of whack with the rest of the hospitality industry, which I do not think it the case.

As much as I think Disney hotel rates are a racket (which is why I've started renting DVC points) this post is very accurate. Even the Days Inn in Downtown Charleston SC can run $200+ a night (and trust me, this place is a motel no doubt) during their high season. I understand people saying you can get a suite at the Hyatt for the price of a Poly standard view, but the Hyatt doesn't have a monorail that puts you at the enterance of the most visited theme park in the world in less than 10 minutes.

So, are they overpriced? Absolutely. Is there a reason? Absolutely.

 

[SorcererMC]

And still attendance and occupancy continues to climb.

Which is indicative of a tourist boom, not necessarily an increase in quality (which seems to be the crux of the issue).

 

[jpeden]

Ditto!
Quite frankly I can't even remember the last time wdw1974 even shared information with us which was actually useful or even accurate. It's gotta be at least 5 years and that is being generous.
Just go away!

You haven't even been on this site for 5 years, yet you can say it's been 5 years since one of the most well respected insiders on this web page hast shared something useful or accurate? Math is hard.

 

[SorcererMC]

So, are they overpriced? Absolutely. Is there a reason? Absolutely.

The reason is that the hotel industry prices competitively according to price transparency - anyone can look up any price for any fixed period of time. Published prices and rack rates serve as reference points for the consumer, and are only one indicator of the market.

 

[Mike S]

Ditto!
Quite frankly I can't even remember the last time wdw1974 even shared information with us which was actually useful or even accurate. It's gotta be at least 5 years and that is being generous.
Just go away!

Really?

Well, if current plans (and they are subject to change, but accurate as of this posting and that is all I can ever offer) follow through, sometime in either 2017 or 2018 you will get to experience a true GotG E-Ticket at The Corpse of The Disney-MGM Studios. Fast construction timeline you say. Or the Spirit is smoking on some bad Kissimmee weed you say?

Nope. Welcome to The Guardians of the Galaxy Tower of Terror. Yes. Really. Yes, Disney wants to destroy (or make over depending on how you look at it) one of its high points of creative product in the last 25 years to tie it to a BRAND that it can't even use to advertise and promote, in Florida that is.

Facts are such pesky little things...

 

[flynnibus]

Soo...do you want Disney to charge interstate motel/hotel prices for their 'value' accommodations? Or increase the quality of these accommodations (other than normal renovations) while keeping the price the same? Or something else?

My preference would be somewhere in between. My personal preference for a room style is more in-line with what Disney coins as their moderates... in terms of room features, etc. If Disney wants to have a product in a motel level of room below that level... I'm not going to have a fit about it. But the pricing of the values impacts the pricing on the moderates for obvious reasons. So I can't flush them from the equation entirely.

If Disney were charging more like $130-$180/200 for their moderates... I think that would be a better balance of my willingness to pay for what product they are offering. I think their Values should be more like $90-$120. But their actual prices are more like $120-210.. and moderates are more like $220-$300 hence the disconnect in the pricing.

I am fine with most of the amenity levels at the value and moderates with the exception of transportation... I just don't want to be paying an ultra premium when the product does not match the price.

When I have to stay in NYC and pay redonkulous prices... it doesn't mean I'm willing to pay those prices, I'm pretty much forced to and do so begrudgingly. I don't want to be UPSET by my vacation... that kind of sets things off on the wrong foot.

 

[jpeden]

The reason is that the hotel industry prices competitively according to price transparency - anyone can look up any price for any fixed period of time. Published prices and rack rates serve as reference points for the consumer, and are only one indicator of the market.

Fair enough. And I think Disney needs to step up their game no doubt. For example, last year when we had an issue after returning from MVMCP, I was told I couldn't speak to the night manager at the Poly because there was no night manager. I literally had to call the WDW Guest Relations line at 1AM to find out I was being lied to. She explained that the night manager handled multiple hotels, but would have him brought over from the Yacht Club immediately if I wanted. At that point we just wanted Togo to bed and had to fight with the desk manager the next morning to have the issue corrected. I shouldn't have to do that paying $300+ a night. I expect good customer service and you just don't get it at Disney hotels anymore.

 

[WDW1974]

Spirited Haunting Week Musings:

I see folks getting excited for Disney's new holiday offerings. I think it's great that they are importing Once Upon a Time from TDL -- where I haven't seen it, but haven't heard anything but good things on it -- and adding Jingle Bells, Jingle Bam at The Sometime in 2018 or maybe 2019 or even 2020 Will Have a Third Name Theme Park. I look forward to seeing them both at some point. But this isn't the type of thing you get all weepy about and start thinking that Georgie K really cares about you or your experience at WDW AKA The Timeshare Kingdom of the World.

It was a given that something was coming to the dead park because Disney is desperate to have people visit that large construction site and with the tech added for the new Star Wars show, this makes the most sense. Even if the show is great, though, it isn't likely to make anyone forget the Ozzie and Sharon Lightacular.

As to OUAT replacing CTD, I find it amusing to read posts bemoaning its loss. I have loved the show and touted it here for years, but bloggers and Lifestylers and podcasters and, to some extent, Disney itself have sorta ignored the show or played it down. I've often heard it referred to as 'a pre-show for Wishes' in the fan community. While CtM wasn't stale and beyond tired like Wishes is, this is most definitely an upgrade and Disney should be applauded for doing so. I don't know whether this had anything at all to do with the fact MK will lack a night parade for likely years to come. But that isn't the end of the world. For decades, neither DL NOR the MK had night parades except during summer and holiday periods. People lived and enjoyed.

Caught my first 'The MAGIC is Endless' commercial last night and ... are male nipples suddenly out at Disney? Manboobs too offensive to the folks in the Heartland with 78 guns and lower IQs? I have to ask because in addition to continuing to misrepresent DHS as being a vital full-day park loaded with SW product and showing the first Hispanic Disney Princess (is she Jane the Virgin? which is a great show, BTW) and people shopping at Disney Springs Outlet Mall (sans the outlet prices) there is a scene of Stormalong Bay at BC/YC and it looks like every male in the pool has a water shirt or tee on. This is all new footage for a new and pricey campaign, so nothing is accidental. This is like Stacey Aswad's all well-rehearsed ad-libs. I have seen what swims (and floats) in Disney Resort pools and there is plenty of male nips on display.

A good friend is visiting SDL as I type this (and was at TDR and UNI-Osaka last week ... he is true fanboi royalty having visited every Disney and UNI park in the world, unlike anyone else I know either in the fan community or in the business -- really!) and lots of interesting anecdotes. Going to see if he is willing to pop in here when back stateside next month, but he seems quite high on the Disney product in both places (he, like me, has been to TDR before ... but UNI and SDL are new to him). The one thing he loved, which I believe @WDWFigment loved as well has been those Adventure Trails. And he agrees with the consensus feeling in the business that Pirates is now the world's top attractions (above MM in HKDL and FJ at three UNI resorts). RR has been one of his big disappointments. Gee, a raft ride with minimal theming with a blink-and-you-miss-it view of a large AA. What could possibly go wrong?

Speaking of raft rides, did y'all see the tragedy at the park in Australia? Four people dead in a raft ride that is in dozens of parks over the world. I HATE the whole concept of raft rides, even nice ones like at DCA and IOA. They exist to get you soaked, ruin your clothes and belongings and make sure you reek for the rest of your day. But safety has to be considered and every so often there is an incident like this which gives me pause about how safe these things really are. I recently went on Knott's Bigfoot Rapids (now sans Bigfoot prints in the concrete queue because ...well ... lawyers and people who like to sue) for the first time in 25 years of visits because it was 98 degrees and sunny, I was wearing clothes that could be soaked and dry quickly and had someone who offered to hold my phone and wallet etc. I got fairly wet, but I just don't get the enjoyment in these. And I think it is sad that Disney has taken them and moved them into its parks, now even a castle park (after failing in HKDL).

Speaking of HKDL, looks like after cutting out haunted houses last year they have slammed it out of the park with their temp holiday offerings this go around. I don't feel that any park has impressed me more than HKDL for having a Halloween event that is neither a gorefest nor a kiddie and arrested development adult foamhead lover event. It nails that sweet spot in the middle between killers sawing off limbs or zombies chewing on entrails and waiting in a queue to meet Frollo or get cheap candy.

Speaking of Halloween, interesting that at UNI-Japan, HHNs is included with admission and starts at noon (and ends at park closing, which has been 9 p.m.). Also interesting that both American UNI parks will have HHNs the first weekend in November. Such a greedy move, very Disney-caliber. Halloween isn't a November event any more than it is a Labor Day weekend one. Holidays have their time and Halloween ends next Monday night.

Like a lot of fans, one thing I loved as a kid were Disney maps. I love all maps to be honest, but WDW maps were important in this process. I won't talk about how they used to be guidebooks and full of many pages or how crappy and cheap the maps are now at WDW and DLR parks now (every international park uses higher quality paper and writers).

So, naturally I pre-ordered the new Disney Maps book on Amazon months ago. It came last week and ... and ... and ... well, it has some nice art in it. No doubt. But I have seen a good 90% of what is in it and I even own a lot of the items in it (the giant fun maps of DL, MK and EPCOT Center ... the first Euro Disney one, which I bought at EPCOT's France pavilion in 1993 etc.) I was hoping for more art and unique art on the international parks and sadly disappointed. Other than one 2008 SDL rendering when they were clearly in blue sky as it doesn't really show anything, there was nothing really in there of value. And they need some editors at D23 because the TDL map they state is from 1981 (two years before the park debuted) is likely closer to 1991 based on attractions shown and open.

Also bothered me that a good 6-8 pages are devoted to the maps from the two interactive games at the MK. Sure, they are nice. But every fan and his eBay buying momma own these from visiting or buying. I think people might have enjoyed more unique stuff and even maps of parks that were fully designed, like Disney's America, and never built.

How is Agents of SHIELD still on TV? Really ...

Don't be shocked if my pal Chappie makes some changes in the near future. He feels a strong need to show he knows his business (he still doesn't ... but you'd be given years to learn your job too, right?) and means it.

The amount of restaurants at WDW with dinner menus and pricing starting at the end of breakfast really is absurd. BTW, heard that Trail's End, once a favorite of mine, is doing away with lunch and closing at noon before reopening for dinner at 4:30.

Don't tell me how great the buses are at WDW and how you never have a car. I recently used MDE and flew in from the west coast and was largely a prisoner and ... and ... the buses are neither quick nor efficient.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

You know how years ago, Mars Needs Moms killed Zemeckis's mocap unit at Disney and his plans for a Yellow Submarine remake? They were also making a giant monster movie over there, "Calling All Robots". Bunch of artwork and a story reel have emerged.



http://astoundingbeyondbelief.tumblr.com/tagged/calling-all-robots

Real shame. Kaiju films are a genre I'd love to see feature animation do more in.

Honestly, they bit it so hard with Mars Needs Moms and A Christmas Carol that no studio in their right mind would hand them any more money. Hideous, hideous movies that cost tons of money to make and flopped hardcore. Maybe they would have done better with Submarine and Robots, but their track record lost them any kind of support, and it's hard to blame Disney for that when any rational Hollywood exec would have done the same thing.

 

[Andrew C]

Don't be so shallow and pedantic. There was once a good balance. Obviously no one is saying Disney should charge $60 night for a resort room. But when you consider the high cost of a park ticket (especially park hopper) plus high priced food, and then throw in an extremely overpriced resort room Thays ready 30% off but still $300 per night, you find yourself feeling choked with the cost and just want some type of a break.

Disney isn't just pulling rates out of their butt. They charge based on what people are willing to pay. All hotels look to find the right balance between rate and occupancy level. Push the rate too high and you risk losing on occupancy. Sometimes giving up a bit of occupancy to higher rates is worth it. But lose too much on occupancy and you will eventually have to decrease rates.

Disney resorts are at unique advantage of being able to offer incentives for staying on site. Because they own the resort. Stay at their hotels and you may get some extra benefits. Some think it's worth it and some don't.

It's no different that staying at a golf resort or beach resort. You may end up paying a higher rate than a non-resort down the street but the benefits of staying at the resort are likely to include free and/or discounted resort amenities and activities. Again, people determine if the incentives are worth it for them.

 

[Andrew C]

My preference would be somewhere in between. My personal preference for a room style is more in-line with what Disney coins as their moderates... in terms of room features, etc. If Disney wants to have a product in a motel level of room below that level... I'm not going to have a fit about it. But the pricing of the values impacts the pricing on the moderates for obvious reasons. So I can't flush them from the equation entirely.

If Disney were charging more like $130-$180/200 for their moderates... I think that would be a better balance of my willingness to pay for what product they are offering. I think their Values should be more like $90-$120. But their actual prices are more like $120-210.. and moderates are more like $220-$300 hence the disconnect in the pricing.

I am fine with most of the amenity levels at the value and moderates with the exception of transportation... I just don't want to be paying an ultra premium when the product does not match the price.

When I have to stay in NYC and pay redonkulous prices... it doesn't mean I'm willing to pay those prices, I'm pretty much forced to and do so begrudgingly. I don't want to be UPSET by my vacation... that kind of sets things off on the wrong foot.

Thanks for the reply. Your points are definitely reasonable from my perspective.

 

[WDW1974]

Well in a recent article about the Disneyland Paris Nature villages (or whatever it is called) it said they would use magicbands in that development but only magicbands nothing else like FP+, etc.

Using bands with chips in them isn't new or revolutionary. People were doing it before Disney. Well before. I have no idea whether the above is accurate, but wouldn't doubt it. While WDI helped design the place and I believe Disney has a 50/50 interest in it, they will not operate the venture adjacent to DLP.

 

[Hakunamatata]

So with the earlier complaints of Disney's hotel prices, I decided to do some checking. I went online to search for Friday and Saturday night hotel options on both Presidents' Day weekend (one of Disney's busiest) and the weekend after 2/24-2/26 (relatively slow weekend). 2 nights, family of 4. Basic room.

I searched Disney, Universal and downtown hotels in the following cities: New York, Chicago, Nashville, Dallas and Kansas City. I chose a reasonable comp for Value, Moderate and Deluxe (you can quibble with my choices, but all were representative of the overall Expedia star categories and price points). I used Disney's site for its hotels, Uni's for theirs, and Expedia for theirs. I didn't include parking or resort fees, but that would mostly have helped Disney.

Here's what's interesting... Disney is competitive with these 5 American cities. Uni was slightly higher than Disney on these weekends, but not out of the ballpark. Simply put, look at these locations during the last two weekends of February. Where do you want to be? Sure Kansas City is cheaper, but would you rather be there or at WDW? Here's the comparison:

View attachment 171708

Hey buddy. I live in KC (actually on the KS side but still in the metro area) so dont be bad mouthin KC.......I agree id rather be in WDW.

 

[WDW1974]

This came as a surprise to them?
Did they not have any market research as to whether people would miss the Tower?

I wonder whether their decision was based on actual guest visits to the attraction and/or utilization of theoretical capacity.

Research?!?!?!

Hah. I forgot how funny this place can be.

The research was Bob Iger desperately wants Marvel IP in 'his' parks. The research was that Bob 'Chappie' Chapek loves Marvel from his days selling toy Thor hammers and Iron Man masks and wanted to look good to The Weatherman. The research was that WDI could rip Tower apart and redo it for the fraction of the cost, and time, of a new build.

There's your stinking research.

Well you're half right.
Ten years ago, whoever would have predicted that Captain America 3 would stomp a movie called "Batman vs Superman"?

I don't really care. I thought the first Captain America film was quite good. The second largely crappy CGI-filled garbage and never saw the third. Saw Batman vs. Superman on a plane and found it OK, not very good, but not nearly as bad as many led me to believe. But again, I don't want to engage in a huge discussion on why Marvel is super kewl and why I should love it. It may be popular, but still is a godawful fit for Disney, even as they ready the Iron Man Experience in HKDL. ... But I do love the GotG!

 

[WDW1974]

yet inclusive booze isn't even an option on DCL... and is a paid upgrade on most lines. The narrow minded thinking never ceases to amaze me when people shutdown on things they've not even researched, let alone experienced.

If people think they won't like something, then they generally don't care about what some accurate cons/issues could be. I love all kinds of vacations and travel ... but I find cruising to be the absolute most relaxing thing out there. And vacations, I think, should be relaxing escapes if possible.

 

[WDW1974]

THANK YOU.

I said the very same thing over in the dedicated thread in the DL forum, and I got mocked. Some of them really just don't get it and don't care.

No problem, Princess.

And I promise I will drop into the DL board to see the insanity the old Laughing Place gang has brought with them. ... And it rip the SWE's placement in DL too!