Guardians of the Galaxy coming to Energy Pavilion at Epcot

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tirian

Well-Known Member
WOW, I just cant keep up with this thread. SO after thinking about this tragedy I come to the conclusion that Iger and company are really missing the mark here. I couldn't agree more with @tirian and @GoofGoof . But in the big picture the summation of these additions are going to be what will eventually hurt WDW. Yes, Iger is giving the rubes what they want. More IP packed attractions. But they are also pricing out the lower and middle class families. The whales expect quality, value. That's why they buy a Mercedes. If a Mercedes all of the sudden becomes a piece of junk they will no longer buy it. Same with the parks. The reason why WDW became the most popular vacation destination on the planet was because of quality and value, not IP's. I contend that even Mickey Mouse himself wasn't the draw. It was the incredible accommodations, impeccable service and maintenance. Hospitality at its finest. People didn't mind paying. Once those things are gone So will the discerning guest. The best thing a business can acquire is a loyal fan base, you lost that and the erosion begins to set in. Is this where Disney and WDW are now? IMO yes! You may have not liked Eisner but he didn't kill the loyal fan base like Iger is doing. I believe Eisner just made some mistakes. Costly? yes but Iger in his infinite wisdom is literally crushing all the that building of customer loyalty that started with Walt. His legacy? A theme park half way around the world that most Americans will never see. Great Bob, just great! Ok so you say its all about the share holders? Being one of them myself I hardly believe that Shanghai will do little to effect the share.
The resort became world-famous and established its reputation despite having only ONE CHARACTER MEAL, and that was at Lake Buena Vista Village/the Disney Village/DTD/Disney Springs.

I don't mind the foam heads; they're part of the overall experience. But they're not the only reason to go to the Vacation Kingdom of the world.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Can still use Ghost Rider. Man-Thing. Probably Cloak & Dagger. Power Pack (except Franklin Richards). Maybe Blade.

I kid, mostly, but a well-done Power Pack movie would actually have theme park potential.

Yeah, that those are all such Disney appropriate characters. ;)
I don't know the comic book lineage, just the Netflix shows. Could they use Daredevil, Punisher, Jessica Jones, Elektra or Luke Cage? They'd definitely be too dark for any park other than DHS, but just curious at this point.
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
I agree with this and feel the same way. It's a double standard and we hold Disney to a higher standard. Disney and Universal were somewhat unique in their style and their execution. Universal had more speed, action, excitement and screens. Disney relied on a slower pace, elaborate storytelling and a religious dedication to theme including elaborate queues and show buildings. I loved having both be different and never understood why people wanted one or the other to change or conform. Why people complain that Universal is too screen based or Disney needs more thrills. I fear some of the recent moves by Disney are actually attempts to "compete" with Universal in what a lot of fanboys wanted, the "theme park war". As I said in an earlier post, be careful what you wish for. Disney may be taking a page from Universal's play book and going IP based rides to pump up attendance.

Disney had 4 somewhat unique parks in FL: a MK park, a studio park, a zoo/park combo and EPCOT. The MK was most popular by far. The complaint from a lot of fans has always been that AK and DHS were half day parks because they lacked a volume of "rides". I never felt AK was a half day park, but if you just wanted to ride the headliners and skip the animals I could see why people thought that. Same with DHS (the version of DHS before it became a construction zone). A lot of people were bored with the studio tour and the shows and just went, did the headliners and left. EPCOT thrived because of the popularity of the countries in the evening and several headliner attractions. The common theme is that a lot of people these days just want a volume of rides. They don't really care for shows or animal exhibits (why do you think Sea World keeps adding coasters instead of more animals) People aren't as interested in elaborate theming or intricate details (see the criticism of FLE), they don't want to invest the time in exploring areas of a park like TSI or the trails in AK. They want instant gratification. a selfie to post on Instagram and a ride that takes 5 mins or less so they can get back on their phones and tweet or post about it.

It does seem that some of the uniqueness of each park is being lost with each addition, but the truth is that the majority probably prefer it that way. They'd rather have an AK with 12 rides and no character or soul than what we currently have. They'd rather have DHS without the studio part and with a fleshed out Star Wars and Pixar Land. They would prefer IP based attractions at EPCOT over slow moving, time consuming, educational rides. Disney seems to be pushing its 3 other WDW parks to be more like MK and more like IOA. I don't like it, but I don't think they care, I'm just 1 voice. A lot of other people do like it.
So if we want the parks to maintain their theming and character and a large portion of the general public wants more rides...
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
WOW, I just cant keep up with this thread. SO after thinking about this tragedy I come to the conclusion that Iger and company are really missing the mark here. I couldn't agree more with @tirian and @GoofGoof . But in the big picture the summation of these additions are going to be what will eventually hurt WDW. Yes, Iger is giving the rubes what they want. More IP packed attractions. But they are also pricing out the lower and middle class families. The whales expect quality, value. That's why they buy a Mercedes. If a Mercedes all of the sudden becomes a piece of junk they will no longer buy it. Same with the parks. The reason why WDW became the most popular vacation destination on the planet was because of quality and value, not IP's. I contend that even Mickey Mouse himself wasn't the draw. It was the incredible accommodations, impeccable service and maintenance. Hospitality at its finest. People didn't mind paying. Once those things are gone So will the discerning guest. The best thing a business can acquire is a loyal fan base, you lost that and the erosion begins to set in. Is this where Disney and WDW are now? IMO yes! You may have not liked Eisner but he didn't kill the loyal fan base like Iger is doing. I believe Eisner just made some mistakes. Costly? yes but Iger in his infinite wisdom is literally crushing all the that building of customer loyalty that started with Walt. His legacy? A theme park half way around the world that most Americans will never see. Great Bob, just great! Ok so you say its all about the share holders? Being one of them myself I hardly believe that Shanghai will do little to effect the share.
To be honest, I don't think most the Iger era additions that have already been built and completed thus far are what alienates more loyal fans than Eisner did, but rather what's currently being planned and built that will.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Where I do think the IP route is short sighted is that they don't have the staying power of rides like HM or PoTC which were based on original concepts. How long before the IPs grow stale? The rides based on Classic Disney cartoons are safe but the others... Universal has already had to turn over a number of attractions based on dated IPs and replace them. At Disney you can't close anything down without an online protest petition and fanboy backlash.
To me IPs like Star Wars, Marvel, and Harry Potter have proven their staying power over the years. For IP being dated I'll bring up Splash Mountain being based on a movie 99% of guests who ride it don't know exists. Or Tower of Terror being based on The Twilight Zone. Or The Mummy and MIB. As long as the attraction is enjoyable for many people that's all that matters as far as staying power goes.

Original concepts are still something that Disney should bring back focus to though. We've seen what they can do overseas with Mystic Manor and it's fantastic.

To that last part I don't think anyone here would complain about Stitch leaving ;)
Agreed on DHS. Once it was no longer used as a studio the theme kinda fell apart. It was pretty good when they had the operating studio tour and it was a lot different than going to MK or EPCOT. They were 3 very different experiences. I'm looking forward to SW Land but I do worry about how they will tie in all the various sections of the park or if they will even try that hard. It could just be an IOA style mish mash of random lands based on unrelated IPs.
I guess we'll have to wait and see how it's all tied together. Personally though this is the only park that I'm perfectly fine with being a mish mash. All you have to do is set it up that you move from old Hollywood to the worlds of the movies. Done and done.
I do think AK needs another major attraction. I just hope or want it to be animal based. Real, not fictional animals. I'm OK with Avatar there but that's where I draw the line. Did anyone at Disney actually see the Jungle Book? If that's not a slam dunk IP for a true E-ticket dark ride I don't know what is:). Get it done and don't skimp...if not a traditional dark ride than go with a boat ride with the big boats and a giant drop or even a Splash style flume ride. It gets damn hot at AK it would be nice to have another way to get wet.
Totally agree on Jungle Book.
I still think the million dollar question that a number of us have asked is will this GoTG thing be just a randomly placed attraction based on that IP in EPCOT or will it be GoTG replacing Ellen and Bill Nye in teaching us about energy or something similar that still fits in the overall theme? I know it's not popular to say around these parts but I was OK with Nemo at the Seas and Donald Duck in Mexico. In both cases they were characters used to introduce or highlight the subject matter but the point and overall quality of the attractions didn't change. I think the rat ride could work in France too the same way since it would be based on a French restaurant. Still not sure the same can be said about Frozen Norway, but the ride looks pretty good. If they just add random IP based rides to EPCOT with no attempt at a coherent theme then that's a real problem for me.
I seriously doubt GotG will be used to educate. If Frozen wasn't this won't either. Nemo and Donald didn't do much beyond what was already there either imo.
 
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Captain Neo

Well-Known Member
I still think the million dollar question that a number of us have asked is will this GoTG thing be just a randomly placed attraction based on that IP in EPCOT or will it be GoTG replacing Ellen and Bill Nye in teaching us about energy or something similar that still fits in the overall theme? I know it's not popular to say around these parts but I was OK with Nemo at the Seas and Donald Duck in Mexico. In both cases they were characters used to introduce or highlight the subject matter but the point and overall quality of the attractions didn't change. I think the rat ride could work in France too the same way since it would be based on a French restaurant. Still not sure the same can be said about Frozen Norway, but the ride looks pretty good. If they just add random IP based rides to EPCOT with no attempt at a coherent theme then that's a real problem for me.

The plan is to retheme Future World from a series of corporate sponsored pavilions presenting the future into more of a broad Science Fiction futuristic area and that will begin with Guardians of the Galaxy land taking over the left side of FW.
 

SpaceMountain77

Well-Known Member
The plan is to retheme Future World from a series of corporate sponsored pavilions presenting the future into more of a broad Science Fiction futuristic area and that will begin with Guardians of the Galaxy land taking over the left side of FW.

Unless Spaceship Earth, Test Track, The Land, and The Seas with Nemo and Friends are significantly rethemed, it is unclear to me as to how the history of communication and technology, automotive technology, agriculture and topography, and marine science, respectively, will become science fiction.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
To be honest, I don't think most the Iger era additions that have already been built and completed thus far are what alienates more loyal fans than Eisner did, but rather what's currently being planned and built that will.
IMO, the problem isn't simply what's being built. Out-of-control price hikes, poor food quality, poor CM morale, and lower perceived value have accompanied the new attraction plans that haven't been built yet.

In WDW, New FL and Frozenstrom didn't cost so much that Disney *had* to jack up admission, resorts, and dining. They've been dangerously testing how much is too much, and as many of us have said before, the middle-class Disney fans are being priced out and the wealthy don't consider theme parks ideal vacations. The new stores at DS are a perfect example. Disney attracted many pricey tenants, while ignoring the public has been trained to shop only sales and clearance offers. How high is the DS rent? How will the stores survive?

Star Wars Land, revamped Epcot, and Avatar will revitalize WDW. But Disney is treading dangerously close to losing goodwill among guests, who have begun to feel the company is showing a new "Disney Side," and it's greedy.
 
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