DAS opinion as its almost 6 months in full effect

[networkpro]

I just read a thoughtful article from a Chicago-land mother with an Autistic child who wrote that instead of a front of the line pass that the GAC was, the DAS is an equal access card. I dont see many strident "Its ruined Disney for us!" postings these days and so I'm just asking the question... did it ?

 

[Lord_Vader]

This should say it all. Just the messenger, please don't shoot me for it!

http://blog.wdwinfo.com/2014/04/04/new-lawsuit-attacks-disneys-new-disability-access-service/

 

[Tom]

 

[MattC]

This should say it all. Just the messenger, please don't shoot me for it!

http://blog.wdwinfo.com/2014/04/04/new-lawsuit-attacks-disneys-new-disability-access-service/

Oh boy. Can't we all just get along?

 

[RSoxNo1]

People have asked me time and time again what I think of the new system and my response has consistently been, "It will be more of a PitA, but we shouldn't have much of an issue making it transparent for Matt (my autistic brother)."

For Matt, he doesn't request repeating an attraction so that common need is a non-issue. He certainly has his favorites though and gets upset if he's denied entrance. A month ago, a guest services cast member called me to discuss the DAS card (prompted by an e-mail from me). My concern was that under the previous system we would supplement the GAC with Fastpass because the GAC would only accommodate 6 guests. We were working within the confines of the current system for the handful of attractions that all 9 of us could together. For the most part we could plan ahead, send a runner to get FP and it would work without issue. My concern was that with Fastpass+ this would be a giant PitA, but it doesn't seem like this will be an issue on our next trip. I was pointedly told that as long as all members of the party are present at the time of issue, they will give us a DAS card for all 9 members in our party. We will likely supplement this with Fastpass+ as needed, but a large group like that with kids and grandparents doesn't typically move all that fast.

My biggest complaint right now is that it's not integrated with My Disney Experience. Assuming that's on the table it will be far less difficult to make everything transparent to Matt. My other gripe is that I wish they would go the Universal route where it's 30 minutes or less goes in the FP+ queue, more than 30 minutes gives you a return time. Currently it is 10 minutes or less goes standby, more than 10 minutes gets a return time. The second complaint will more or less be a non-issue for us if it's integrated with the app.

The last question I had for the Guest Services rep I spoke with was regarding Matt's favorite attraction, Jungle Cruise. I asked if there was a way to get priority access to just Jungle Cruise on either a length of stay standpoint or even just a one time thing on our first day. On the first and last days of the trip, Matt is at his most anxious, and anything done before Jungle Cruise further heightens that anxiety on day 1. She didn't say "no" to priority access to a single attraction (especially one that isn't as high a demand as others), however she didn't explicitly say yes we can give you front of the line access to Jungle Cruise either. What she did say is that the Guest Services cast member could likely write in the first experience (in this case, Jungle Cruise). I suspect we will plan Day 1 with a Jungle Cruise Fastpass+, but knowing my family's punctuality that could be an issue.

 

[ml123_9]

My question is, how does Disney determine someone is disabled or Autistic, if you can't tell visually? Do the families have to provide a Dr.'s note? What about other disabilities such as Cerebral Palsy or Down syndrome?

 

[FettFan]

My question is, how does Disney determine someone is disabled or Autistic, if you can't tell visually? Do the families have to provide a Dr.'s note? What about other disabilities such as Cerebral Palsy or Down syndrome?

And therein lies the rub. As far as I know, it's illegal to ask such medical questions.

 

[ml123_9]

And therein lies the rub. As far as I know, it's illegal to ask such medical questions.

Exactly. Someday, the press will probably find out that parents are teaching their kid's, or the parents themselves, to act handicapped in order to receive special benefits from Disney.

 

[mm121]

My question is, how does Disney determine someone is disabled or Autistic, if you can't tell visually? Do the families have to provide a Dr.'s note? What about other disabilities such as Cerebral Palsy or Down syndrome?

And therein lies the rub. As far as I know, it's illegal to ask such medical questions.

Thats part of why this is such a difficult issue for Disney to handle, since they can't ask for someone to prove their disability, as such thats why overtime people learned that they could abuse the GAC pranyogram.

The DAS system as much as its different from the GAC program meets the needs required which were substantiated by the segway lawsuits of the past stating:

Disney is not “required to make any and all possible accommodations that would provide full and equal access to disabled patrons; they need only make accommodations that are reasonable.”

The DAS system as much as some are upset about it, fulfills this requirement to be "reasonable"

No system is perfect, but its not able to be abused like the GAC system.

Personally I don't completely disagree with those upset with the new system especially for those with children with mental disorders, and I would say there should be some kind of "middle ground" system, but theres just too much variation in these conditions and without legally being able to VERIFY someones condition theres just to big of a window for future abuses.

Yes its highly unfortunate that non disabled people abused a system thus causes the changes affecting those that truly require accommodations, but unfortunately this is more a society problem than a Disney problem, as these days people will abuse anything that's based on "trust and honesty"

 

[Ariel Savage]

My sister received a DAS card due to her disability the last time we went. I helped make plans with FP+ and acted as a "runner" for her to get return times. We had no problems with it. However, I talked to other families who had difficulty adapting to the new system. I think the biggest misunderstanding some families have about the system is that they think they MUST return to the ride by or for the return time listed. So if they have like a 20 or 30 minute wait, they struggle to fill that time. This is not the case. You can return after the designated time. So if there's a long wait, you could take your family to lunch or go to a ride with little or no wait and not worry about returning by that time listed or stress out about filling that time.

While DAS can't be abused as badly as the other system, I did notice a large amount of grandmas on scooters using it. I can't speak knowledgeably about their disabilities, but it was a little off putting to see a large family saunter through the line because grandma has a bad knee. I also stood behind a mother who asked for a DAS card because "my little one is anxious." Again, I can't speak to this child's disability, but "anxious" is not something I would seek a DAS for.

 

[RSoxNo1]

My question is, how does Disney determine someone is disabled or Autistic, if you can't tell visually? Do the families have to provide a Dr.'s note? What about other disabilities such as Cerebral Palsy or Down syndrome?

No, they have to take your word for it. In many cases of intellectual disabilities it is fairly apparent. I'm sure some level of training is done and what you'll see is a targetted line of questioning that starts with generalities and then gets very specific about the individual concerns of the guest. This is the same as it was with GAC, but the end game (DAS card or something else) has changed.

 

[RSoxNo1]

My sister received a GAC card due to her disability the last time we went. I helped make plans with FP+ and acted as a "runner" for her to get return times. We had no problems with it. However, I talked to other families who had difficulty adapting to the new system. I think the biggest misunderstanding some families have about the system is that they think they MUST return to the ride by or for the return time listed. So if they have like a 20 or 30 minute wait, they struggle to fill that time. This is not the case. You can return after the designated time. So if there's a long wait, you could take your family to lunch or go to a ride with little or no wait and not worry about returning by that time listed or stress out about filling that time.

While GAC can't be abused as badly as the other system, I did notice a large amount of grandmas on scooters using it. I can't speak knowledgeably about their disabilities, but it was a little off putting to see a large family saunter through the line because grandma has a bad knee. I also stood behind a mother who asked for a GAC card because "my little one is anxious." Again, I can't speak to this child's disability, but "anxious" is not something I would seek a GAC for.

This is important (the fact that you can return well after the window with DAS). I just wanted to clarify that GAC is the old system and DAS is the new system.

 

[Ariel Savage]

This is important (the fact that you can return well after the window with DAS). I just wanted to clarify that GAC is the old system and DAS is the new system.

Ack, I'll edit that. That's what I get for trying to squeeze a quick post in right before bed! lolz!

 

[Crystal J]

I know if you have a physical handicap - such as a broken ankle - and have a mobility device you do not get a DAS (Our last trip in December ’13 my mom had a broken ankle with a walking cast, we rented her a scoter to help survive the week). Since most of the lines are now handicap accessible, she could just drive through them.

We used FP+ and if the wait was <10 and not accessible she would walk - so the only lines we bypassed was Spaceship Earth and Star Tours (Wait time at both was only 20 minutes) - and in both cases the wait going in the alternative entrance was maybe a bit shorter but not that much. In the case of TSMM they divert you towards the end to the handicap entrance but have limited ride vehicles - so we watched the person in front of us go the normal route and that was actually quicker.

 

[Anthony Alsup]

To correct the misconception, the GAC was not a "front of the line" card. It put you in the fastpass line. And you are right, Disney is a privilege, butDisney likes our money too. So they try to do what is necessary to keep us coming back. This is a business decision. Don't misconstrue it as anything else.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

To correct the misconception, the GAC was not a "front of the line" card. It put you in the fastpass line. And you are right, Disney is a privilege, butDisney likes our money too. So they try to do what is necessary to keep us coming back. This is a business decision. Don't misconstrue it as anything else.

When they do studies that find that a GAC-using family is experiencing upwards of 15 attractions a day at MK on average where a non-GAC-using family is experiencing 6 on average, there's something wrong. Not only that but the rampant GAC abuse would have utterly destroyed the mechanics of FP+. So yes, it was partly a business decision, but it was also severely impacting the experience of guests who had paid just as much and did not have anyone in their party with a disability. Positive discrimination in favor of guests with disabilities is still negative discrimination in everyone else's eyes.

 

[Anthony Alsup]

I was not arguing that the GAC was abused or that something needed to be done. We have not used the new DAS system yet, so I honestly have no opinion of it to compare. I was just trying to clear up the very common misconception of the "front of the line" pass. As far as the "study" goes, all I have to go off of is our experience. We generally go during the slowest times of year so that the crowds are more manageable. We also do not do many of the more popular (ie....longer wait times) attractions because my son can't handle the speed, movement, lighting, noise, etc. So yeah, we probably ride a higher number of rides overall than those who do the "thrill" rides. There are a lot of factors which go into something like this and statistics can be twisted whichever direction suits your needs.

 

[Tom Morrow]

My opinion of DAS is that it works just fine, although perhaps there could be some tweaks, such letting the cards be filled out central locations in the park rather than at the attraction entrance. Other than that, it's essentially the exact same system that every other theme park uses, and that should be enough. Those complaining got used to not having to wait in line and having what acted as an unlimited Fastpass, and now that that is taken away from them, they want it back. They want equal treatment everywhere else but special privileges when it comes to something fun, like Disney.

High demand attractions were counting GAC usage and they accounted for 1/5th of everyone riding the attraction at peak times. It wasn't fair. It was out of control. The attractions couldn't handle it, it was throwing off the old Fastpass system, and it was certainly going to throw off the mechanics of FP+. It had to go.

 

[ParentsOf4]

To correct the misconception, the GAC was not a "front of the line" card. It put you in the fastpass line. And you are right, Disney is a privilege, but Disney likes our money too. So they try to do what is necessary to keep us coming back. This is a business decision. Don't misconstrue it as anything else.

Just wanted to point out that WDW is not a "privilege" under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). It is classified as a "public accommodation" under ADA, and must fully comply with ADA.

Quoting from ADA:

(7) Public accommodation. The following private entities are considered public accommodations for purposes of this subchapter, if the operations of such entities affect commerce

(I) a park, zoo, amusement park, or other place of recreation​

The goal of ADA is to assure that disabled Americans can fully participate in all aspects of life, as long as "reasonable accommodations" can be made. Private companies have to go to reasonable lengths, not extraordinary lengths, to comply with ADA.

Under ADA, WDW is more than just a privilege. Disabled Americans have a right to commerce with WDW. That doesn't mean WDW is free; it only means that disabled Americans have a right to do business with WDW. WDW must accommodate these Americans, within reason.

One of the items specifically prohibited by ADA is:

a failure to make reasonable modifications in policies, practices, or procedures, when such modifications are necessary to afford such goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations to individuals with disabilities, unless the entity can demonstrate that making such modifications would fundamentally alter the nature of such goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations​

Clearly, GAC was a reasonable modification to "policies, practices, or procedures" because WDW & DLR used it successfully for years. Disney cannot claim that GAC posed an undue burden on them. Since WDW/DLR already had a FP system in place, GAC did not "fundamentally alter the nature of such goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations".

Some dislike DAS because it's not as generous as GAC. That's irrelevant. The real question is whether DAS also represents reasonable "policies, practices, or procedures". Those fighting for the return of GAC effectively are arguing that GAC was reasonable, but DAS is not. They are arguing that DAS is an insufficient accommodation for their needs.

"Reasonable" ultimately will be decided by the courts.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

"Disney would not make them travel all the way to an attraction only to be told to leave and come back later"

So, if Disney created a central hub for those using DAS to get return times, everything would be fine?
I wonder if Disney could build DAS into MDE somehow...