This is what a FastPass+ line looks like

[copcarguyp71]

I think the problem is the basic idea that training consumers is always problematic.

A)- I am on vacation and do not want to be trained to do anything. Nor do I want to race across the park to make it to a reservation for a ride. Sorry but Disney is not so special that I feel that I need to inconvenience myself or ramp up my stress trying to make a reservation time slot running past things I would like to take time to enjoy because we might miss a reservation for a ride. Has anyone really let that sink into their consciousness...an ELECTRONIC RESERVATION FOR A RIDE. I realize that FP was in a way the same thing but this continuing evolution just seems so disturbing. I think Disney overestimates their "specialness" and the threshold of tolerance that people have when on vacation to unwind.

B)- When we are on vacation we lock up our cell phones in the safe. It is family time and we check out from electronica entirely. My DW works in corporate and I run my own business...for one week a year we shut off the electronica for vacation and to reconnect 100%...I have ZERO interest in bringing it back into the fold. Until Disney decides they want to give out a MyMagic only electronic device we will not take part in any of these programs and even then I will probably not...the beach on Aruba does not make me schedule my next margarita on the beach with an electronic device so they get my vacation dollar for next July.

I absolutely abhor the fact that my once frothing fanboi attitude is waning so quickly so please do not confuse my posts for "negative nancy" Disney bashing...it is out of love for what was and what could be again with the right vision at corporate.

 

[ParentsOf4]

MY questions: (1) What was so wrong with the old system that it needed replacing?

(2) And what are the advantages of this system even assuming they get it to work right?

From a guest perspective, FP+ has the following advantages:

1. FP+ experiences can be booked (if available) prior to arrival. No need to be there at rope drop to get FP+ selections. Sleep in and enjoy your morning.
2. No need for parents to separate while one parent dashes off to get FP for the next attraction. (I got rather good at this with the old FP system. )
3. More flexibility than FP. If you have to miss your TSM FP+ selection, chances are you won't be able to get another TSM FP+ selection but at least you'll be able to change it a lesser attraction such as Star Tours or Little Mermaid, not that either attraction particularly needs FP+.
4. More even distribution of FP+. Those who were uncomfortable with the old FP system will have a better shot at FP+, being able to make selections from home.

Disadvantages:

1. Lots of preplanning. Sorry but WDW has a serious capacity problem for its most popular attractions. Once FP+ is open to all, you better book early if you want to get FP+ for those attractions.
2. End of spontaneity. Wake up and decide you want to go to DHS but all your FP+ selections are made for Epcot? Forget about it with FP+ unless you want to stand in line for two hours at TSM and an hour each at RnRC and TOT.
3. Longer Standby lines right from opening. Unlike the old system when most FP were distributed for times beginning from 45 minutes to 1 hour after park opening, FP+ times are distributed for times immediately after opening. Last week, attractions such as Test Track had 70-minute Standby wait times within 30 minutes of opening, with the Standby line extending well past the line entrance.
4. Longer Standby lines on attractions that previously didn't have FP+. Attractions such as PotC and HM have high capacities and are great people movers. As a result, their single line rarely exceeded 20 minutes. This past week, Standby lines for these attractions during peak hours were much longer than what I've seen in the past.
5. Limit of 3 FP+ at one park and only 1 FP+ per attraction. Super users (like me ) often were able to get far more than 3 FP per day. Do you have a child that really likes the Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh? Get ready to stand in line if you want to ride it more than once.
6. Tiered attractions. Sorry but WDW has a capacity problem. As a result, Disney continues to experiment with tiered FP+ selections. Thus, no FP+ for both Test Track and Soarin'. It's one or the other.

FP+ rules will continue to evolve. Today's advantages and disadvantages likely will change.

Realize that many of the advantages and disadvantages are only ancillary. The business goal of FP+ is not to make your vacation better. It's to get you to preplan your vacation before you arrive in the hopes that this will keep you onsite at WDW, spending your vacation dollars there.

When it comes to FP+, it's Disney business objectives first and you, the guest, second.

Welcome to the new "Disney Difference".

 

[Ralphlaw]

So, can we still do the old fastpasses too, or are they now gone? Dumb question, perhaps, but I really don't know.

 

[rangerbob]

For now you can get the old fastpass. You can't if you are staying at Pop though.

 

[disney4life2008]

So, can we still do the old fastpasses too, or are they now gone? Dumb question, perhaps, but I really don't know.

The short answer is YES. But the question remains - how long will legacy fp's be available? I suspect they are testing at POP to plan for an eventual roll out where resort guests will no longer be able to use fp from the machines. I doubt the machines are going away though - because they still have the other group of guests that are not staying on property.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Reassuring. The world isn't changing utterly.

 

[Tom Morrow]

When we are on vacation we lock up our cell phones in the safe. It is family time and we check out from electronica entirely. My DW works in corporate and I run my own business...for one week a year we shut off the electronica for vacation and to reconnect 100%...I have ZERO interest in bringing it back into the fold. Until Disney decides they want to give out a MyMagic only electronic device we will not take part in any of these programs and even then I will probably not...the beach on Aruba does not make me schedule my next margarita on the beach with an electronic device so they get my vacation dollar for next July.

To be fair, you don't actually NEED to use your phone at all in the park, its just an option. If you made all of your vacation days' FP+ selections in advance, and have a print out of the times, you would not need to look it up on your phone. If you didn't make the selections in advance, you can use the in-park Kiosks and tablets in the service centers to do so.

 

[copcarguyp71]

To be fair, you don't actually NEED to use your phone at all in the park, its just an option. If you made all of your vacation days' FP+ selections in advance, and have a print out of the times, you would not need to look it up on your phone. If you didn't make the selections in advance, you can use the in-park Kiosks and tablets in the service centers to do so.

Understood, and good info some of which I was not aware of. But am I correct that to get the most out of the new system a smartphone is recommended?

 

[Ralphlaw]

Somehow, it just makes me afraid to go. Okay, I guess, not really, but do I need even more stress in my vacation planning? Planning used to be fun. Now, another layer of "You MUST do this beforehand" has creeped in. Oh well, I'm there in 19 days. I'm sure it'll all be fine.

 

[WDWYankee15]

The stomach-churning part about this is that for the same amount of $$$$ Disney has spent on this debacle, we could be having a discussion right now on how we like WDW's newest theme park that just opened.

And that would reduce lines by redistributing crowds. If you think of the one expansion that they have done (New Fantasyland), it did very little to redistribute guests. While they opened up once unused space to push crowds into, there is actually very little pathways in New Fantasyland. The ride capacity is not huge on Little Mermaid and the addition of a second Dumbo (while welcomed) does little to "eat up" guests. Enchanted Tales with Belle is not high capacity either. We shall see how much 7DMT can eat, but give the rumored short nature of the ride, I can't eat too many. So with New Fantasyland, they created a marketing draw to bring in more people, with very little created to accomidate them.

Meanwhile, check the refurb calendar for early 2014. Lots of rides will be closed for some extended periods. So just because this can be a really low attendance period, it will be very interesting to see what happens when they take a bunch of these crowd eaters (ex Festival of the Lion King, Splash Mountain) off line.

 

[Bairstow]

And that would reduce lines by redistributing crowds. If you think of the one expansion that they have done (New Fantasyland), it did very little to redistribute guests. While they opened up once unused space to push crowds into, there is actually very little pathways in New Fantasyland. The ride capacity is not huge on Little Mermaid and the addition of a second Dumbo (while welcomed) does little to "eat up" guests. Enchanted Tales with Belle is not high capacity either. We shall see how much 7DMT can eat, but give the rumored short nature of the ride, I can't eat too many. So with New Fantasyland, they created a marketing draw to bring in more people, with very little created to accomidate them.

Meanwhile, check the refurb calendar for early 2014. Lots of rides will be closed for some extended periods. So just because this can be a really low attendance period, it will be very interesting to see what happens when they take a bunch of these crowd eaters (ex Festival of the Lion King, Splash Mountain) off line.

I thought hourly capacity on mermaid was 2,400, same as Mansion.

 

[copcarguyp71]

I thought hourly capacity on mermaid was 2,400, same as Mansion.

Yes I think the omnimover system (as long as they can keep it free of breakdowns) is the most effective people eater there is...save of course for Peter Pan.

On another side note...as I was driving down the road today on calls mulling over all that has been going on both at Disney and on these threads I was reminded of a game. Does anyone remember playing Rollercoaster Tycoon 1&2 on the PC? I was addicted to that game and I was reminded of the fact that as you built your park no matter how carefully you did it time and again you would hit a point that no matter how many maintenance people you hired, attractions you built or bathrooms you installed the park would implode on itself. Now, I am not saying that it necessarily reflects real life totally however their algorithms were probably based in some part according to real world research. I just found the similarities to be interesting and thought I would mention it.

 

[WDWYankee15]

I thought hourly capacity on mermaid was 2,400, same as Mansion.

Even if this was true (which it is if you are talking about DL, but WDW's Mansion holds about 3,200 an hour which is a huge amount of additional capacity), Little Mermaid is a 6 minutes, 15 seconds long, while the Haunted Mansion is 7 minutes, 30 seconds plus a "pre-show" in the library that takes up a few more minutes. It may seem trival amounts of time, but that many people for a few minutes is a big deal.

I wasn't looking to debate rider capacity or anything but merely state the obvious, which is the growth at WDW has not lead to the creation of many opportunities to fill guests' time. The funny thing is the one thing they have done in some parks that helps eat peoples' time in what frustrates many on these boards. The addition of more meet and greets. These experiences take people out of ride queues and puts them in meet and greet queues. However, the additions of meet and greets at MK have been balanced by decreases at AK.

Further if you want to think about more people and time eaters, one of the biggest is parades. However, the DHS parade has been killed and in the recent years the Celebrate the Dream Come True parade lost many floats and was drastically reduced in time. Perhaps the new parade in 2014 will return some of what once was to the MK.

Nothing like thousands of people standing around ono the curbs doing nothing (actually buying Disney food and trinkets) and not standing in ride lines for 30 - 60 minutes waiting for and enjoying a parade.

 

[DznyRktekt]

Other threads have mentioned that Animal Kingdom will be losing its parade this year as well.

 

[WDWYankee15]

So, can we still do the old fastpasses too, or are they now gone? Dumb question, perhaps, but I really don't know.

For now you can get the old fastpass. You can't if you are staying at Pop though.

The short answer is YES. But the question remains - how long will legacy fp's be available? I suspect they are testing at POP to plan for an eventual roll out where resort guests will no longer be able to use fp from the machines. I doubt the machines are going away though - because they still have the other group of guests that are not staying on property.

This was just posted... 3 more resorts added to Pop as having no Keys to the World cards and therefore no Legacy FastPass.

Details at http://www.wdwmagic.com/other/mymag...-world-card-expanding-to-all-star-resorts.htm

Discontinuation of the Key to the World Card expanding to All Star Resorts
Dec 02, 2013 | 2:59pm EDT

Following the most recent test at Disney's Pop Century Resort, Key to the World cards will no longer be given to guests at check-in at the All Star Resorts.
The change begins today at Disney's All Star Sports, December 4 at All Star Music, and December 6 2013 at All Star Movies. The program will also continue at Disney's Pop Century Resort.
All guests will receive a MagicBand, but a Key to the World card can be requested. However, it will not have an active magnetic strip, meaning it cannot be used for regular FASTPASS, but can be used in place of, or in addition to a MagicBand.

 

[Ralphlaw]

I want the best of both worlds: A "reservation" ahead of time AND the ability to jump in and get a Fastpass that day. For example, I can't get a Fastpass+ for both Soarin and Test Track. Right now, I could get a Fastpass+ reservation for Soarin", but before using it I could immediately shoot on over to Test Track and get a traditional Fastpass there. If they take away the traditional Fastpass, I'll now end up standing in line for a very long time at Test Track.

Under the old system, I could run on in and get fastpasses for Test Track immediately in the morning, then meet my family at Soarin' for the stand by line, which wouldn't be too horribly long. A little bit later in the day, I could get yet another fastpass for either one of them for later that afternoon or evening.

As I see it, this new "improvement" just forced me to stand in line somewhere for a very long time if I want to ride the two premier attractions at the park, and I generally refuse to stand in line. Under the new system:

1. Newbies won't know enough to go online and get their fastpasses (although before they would quickly pick up on the old fastpass system because it was very easy); and
2. True pros like us no longer have the ability to run and stack up rides via short (early) standby lines and the judicious use of fastpasses.

Maybe it'll all be okay, but I smell a rat somewhere. Thankfully for me I'm a DVC member, and we'll be the last to lose our old fastpass privileges. Yet the whole thing is premised on being better, and if I paid to stay on property at POP or ALL STAR, and saw all the offsite guests being able to use the Fastpass kiosks that I can't, I would very quickly become angry. And you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. I get all green, and swelled up , and stuff.

 

[WDWYankee15]

... if I paid to stay on property at POP or ALL STAR, and saw all the offsite guests being able to use the Fastpass kiosks that I can't, I would very quickly become angry. And you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. I get all green, and swelled up , and stuff.

Two points on this. 1. These were some of the first resorts to test MagicBands so they were the first to benefit from double dipping. This does not matter to current guests, but it is the case.
2. These are value resorts and like it or not sometimes you have to pay to play. Disney does it all the time. They know where you stay (ever check in for dining reservations, they even ask you to confirm were you are staying). Additionally you get better perks staying at one resort versus another. This is currently a perk for staying at a non-value.

Honestly, they won't admit it yet, but MagicBands and essentially FastPass+ will eventually become pay to play. Stay on property you get to use FastPass+ and book 60 days out. Stay off property yoou can still get in on it but you have to "buy" a MagicBand and maybe you can't book 60 days out because they don't know when you are going to "use" the park tickets you purchased. Also, maybe you get 3 FastPass+'s but for a fee can buy extra. Maybe pay a fee to upgrade from 1 top tier and 2 lower tier to 2 top tier and 1 lower tier.

I have no facts, just possible places they could go with this. They didn't spend upwards of a billion dollars to not "make" more money.

Also, even if they say "We aren't doing that!" That doesn't mean that they WON'T do that in the future.

 

[disney4life2008]

Two points on this. 1. These were some of the first resorts to test MagicBands so they were the first to benefit from double dipping. This does not matter to current guests, but it is the case.
2. These are value resorts and like it or not sometimes you have to pay to play. Disney does it all the time. They know where you stay (ever check in for dining reservations, they even ask you to confirm were you are staying). Additionally you get better perks staying at one resort versus another. This is currently a perk for staying at a non-value.

Honestly, they won't admit it yet, but MagicBands and essentially FastPass+ will eventually become pay to play. Stay on property you get to use FastPass+ and book 60 days out. Stay off property yoou can still get in on it but you have to "buy" a MagicBand and maybe you can't book 60 days out because they don't know when you are going to "use" the park tickets you purchased. Also, maybe you get 3 FastPass+'s but for a fee can buy extra. Maybe pay a fee to upgrade from 1 top tier and 2 lower tier to 2 top tier and 1 lower tier.

I have no facts, just possible places they could go with this. They didn't spend upwards of a billion dollars to not "make" more money.

Also, even if they say "We aren't doing that!" That doesn't mean that they WON'T do that in the future.

I agree with all your points and from my recollection - many of your hypothesis were detailed when the MM+ experience was first brought to light. There will (eventually) be a tiered level of FP+ with the values getting only 3 and the moderates and expensive hotels getting more. You are exactly correct about those staying off property - but this is also the point of MM+ - to get more guests to stay on property with their shiny magic band and spend lots of money and remain in one park. The problem is that - the great majority of us can not even afford the mods and we can barely stay at the values - its much cheaper to stay off site and rent a car. But you are right on with your entire analysis.

 

[wdisney9000]

A)-

I absolutely abhor the fact that my once frothing fanboi attitude is waning so quickly so please do not confuse my posts for "negative nancy" Disney bashing...it is out of love for what was and what could be again with the right vision at corporate.

Sad that you have to add that bit to the end of your comment but if you dont you get labled as a "basher" or doom and gloomer.

I visited last week and we saw the long FP+ lines many times. We have been down during many peak days in years past and NEVER seen it like that. I did see a lot of people who were just confused or thought they had a FP+ cuz they were wearing a band and thats the problem. It will only get worse as Disney is focusing more on first time customers who will make the same mistakes we are seeing now. Im sure Disney wishes that those of us with the sacred knowledge of the "good ol days" would just go away.
Disney : "We must keep this from the serfs lest they gain literacy and threaten the landed gentry".

 

[Rob562]

Understood, and good info some of which I was not aware of. But am I correct that to get the most out of the new system a smartphone is recommended?

One of the rarely-mentioned benefits of the FP+ system is that if the attraction you have a FP+ for shuts down for some reason (weather, mechanical, etc), you'll get a notice via email, text or I presume the app, telling you so. This saves you from walking halfway across the park only to find out that the ride is 101, which can easily happen under legacy FP.

That FP+ then becomes a "wildcard". You'll be given a list of attractions that you can just tap your Band/RFID card at the entry point and get right in the FP+ line. It's automatic, no need to reschedule anything. I've heard from people testing that the list you're given is essentially the original attraction you had the FP+ for plus all of the FP+ attractions in the park that you *don't* currently have FP+ for (so the system doesn't allow you to double-up on FP+ for one attraction)

Compare this enhanced FP+ option with my visit in June under regular Fp where Pan went 101 just as we were entering the FP Return line around 2pm. The ride never re-opened that day, all the way through park closing at 11 or 12 that night. True, we were right there when it shut down, but if we'd still been eating the lunch we'd just finished we would've known not to bother heading over there. And though we didn't ask or press the matter, I doubt we would've been able to use the now-useless Pan FP slips to get into one of the other FP return lines...

-Rob