Universal to get $500 million

tissandtully

Well-Known Member
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Best warehouses I've ever seen.

Thank you. I had a good laugh at that comment. This guy must have purchased the mickey blinders. I love WDW and Universal equally, but saying that Universal just has warehouses?.. Come on!
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
When people talk about it being "too late" for Disney, I'm assuming people mean that the Disney World vacation will become the Orlando vacation, with Universal and Disney taking up equal parts of the vacation. Something like that was unheard of even six years ago, with Florida vacations usually meaning "Going to Disney World".

It's shocking really, Universal has started changing public perception incredibly quickly considering how long they were seen as a far and away second fiddle.
Aye. And it may be even worse than Disney fears.

It could be a runaway process. Once the paradigm shift in public perception has been made from 'Disney vacation' to 'Orlando vacation', WDW will lose its magic aura. Will cease to be a rite of passage, no longer a unique place uniquely connected with childhood, families and tradition. Just another place to visit, another theme park. And as such, it will have to compete, will have to pit coaster to caoster, ride to ride, restaurant to restaurant. Disney without its magical aura of uniqueness is like a wizard without a wand, just an old man.
 

tissandtully

Well-Known Member
It's 14 years since the introduction of FastPass and lots of people still don't like or use it.

14 years is a long time to say people are resistant to change.

Let's see, for FP+:
  • "Will I be able to get good selections if I don't book weeks in advance?" - No
  • "Can I get more than 3 or 4 a day?" - No
  • "Can I use it at more than one park per day?" - No
What's not to like?:rolleyes:

I'll quote Disney CFO Jay Rasulo to remind everyone why we're getting FP+:

"So if we can get people to plan their vacation before they leave home, we know that we get more time with them. We get a bigger share of their wallet."

Nothing's more fun for WDW "guests" than to see naked greed laid before them. It's why we go to WDW right, so Disney can get a big share of our wallet, right? Don't try to build more attractions to attract new guests. Don't try to offer better value or quality to encourage guest spending. Don't try to make Walt Disney World more enjoyable. Just, well, just keep us captive onsite so we don't spend our money anywhere else.:mad:

Anyone wonder why Universal investing capital for brick-and-mortar additions would be Disney news?

I don't.

The Disney news for this thread is those running the show haven't a clue how to drive growth at Walt Disney World by, heaven forbid, actually making it more fun!

Can you explain to me people's disdain or lack of using the current FP system? I've never had an issue with it, aside from the high demand attractions running out very early. The Universal Express Pass is literally a "Pay to skip the line" product and a lot of people are using it, not the majority, but a whole lot.
 

MattM

Well-Known Member
It's shocking really, Universal has started changing public perception incredibly quickly considering how long they were seen as a far and away second fiddle.

That's true. But it's never "too late," as I see thrown around here often. If there was a "too late," then UNI would never have been able to be in the position they are in now. It's cyclical.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
According to an article on MiceAge, Eric Davis mentions how Comcast is investing $500 million into the resort including land acquisitions.

Just so everyone is clear on where that number is coming from: I believe this was an extrapolation on MiceAge's part from the press release from several days ago that they were increasing their currently ~1 billon capital expenditure budget through 2020 by 50%.

So yes the actual expenditure is hovering over 1.5 billion, but it's now of course ~500 million bigger than the DCA re-do like levels it was before!
 

Nmoody1

Well-Known Member
Standby for Disney to come back with a real big announcement... About a year after Universal bang the final nail in the coffin.... Then we'll have the final, watered down reality of that announcement about 8 years after that! See you for the grand opening circa 2030!

I think the whole 'rite of passage' started to fade when Disney started marketing 'Disney Parks' as opposed to individual resorts. Now, according to marketers, you can have that magic moment on either coast. We all know you can get the same lame merchandise on both coasts. Disney have been cocksure for too long, thinking they are the big player in Central Florida.

I work for an international airline who flys several plane loads of Brits into the Orlando area every day of the year - it used to be people would be disney disney disney - they knew very little about other parks. These days I hear about aquatica, sea world and universal a lot more than I hear about disney. Sure - people visit, of course they do, but the minion cuddley toys, the dolphin plush.... They are on the increase.

I am such an advocate of what disney do - their customer service is amazing - I love their parks.... I was even fortunate enough to work there back in the days of individual park merchandise and quick service locations serving different treats other than the same burgers and chicken fingers Free Dining Plan guests get to enjoy as a ploy to keep them wandering down the road! I just think disney are starting to look like the poor relation.... They've sat back far too long and this big blue future that is Avatar (hands up who remembers the film???) really is not a patch on the boy wizard, oversized robots and the lure of disney-like hotels popping up at Universal!
 

djlaosc

Well-Known Member
When people talk about it being "too late" for Disney, I'm assuming people mean that the Disney World vacation will become the Orlando vacation, with Universal and Disney taking up equal parts of the vacation. Something like that was unheard of even six years ago, with Florida vacations usually meaning "Going to Disney World".

It's shocking really, Universal has started changing public perception incredibly quickly considering how long they were seen as a far and away second fiddle.

I guess I'm just lucky...

Coming from the UK, every trip I've been on (2002, 2005, 2007, 2011) has been an "Orlando Vacation", so we've never thought of "Disney v Universal v SeaWorld", I've just thought of it as (now) "8 Theme Parks and 4 Water Parks (+ DC, KSC, LEGO, Malls, etc.)", and don't really have any loyalty to a particular brand.

Of course, we get 2-3 weeks, not 5-7 days. (Our 2014 trip was originally going to be 7 days, then 10, and now it has been booked at 14 - wish it was 21 again)
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Can you explain to me people's disdain or lack of using the current FP system? I've never had an issue with it, aside from the high demand attractions running out very early. The Universal Express Pass is literally a "Pay to skip the line" product and a lot of people are using it, not the majority, but a whole lot.
"Pay-to-play" systems like those at Universal are easy to understand and use. It's naked capitalism. A lot of people don't like it but nearly everyone understands the concept immediately. "I pay X dollars and get to use a faster line." No sticking cards in slots, no pieces of paper, no return times, no studying "the rules", no preplanning.

When I watch what happens at Universal, I'm always amazed at how many buy Express Passes after they arrive. There's a family of 4 spending more for Express Passes then they would have spent if they had just booked a night at one of Universal's lovely Deluxe Resorts which also would have included unlimited Express Passes for two days! But they buy 4 limited Express Passes anyway because they haven't done their "homework". Can you blame them? It's a vacation. It's supposed to be relaxing. It's supposed to be fun. When they purchase those limited Express Passes, they are buying "fun".

Going to Orlando already is a complex vacation for the uninitiated and FP/FP+ just makes it more complicated. Worse, FP tends to favor people like you and I; super-users who know every intricate detail. Users who know which FPs to pick up first, know how to tour the parks, and know what to do waiting for the FP return time.

FP+ won't solve anything. The uninitiated are going to say "Gee, I have an 'appointment' for Peter Pan in 50 minutes, Oh, I'm not sure what I can do, I don't want to miss it. I guess I better just stand here waiting for that 'appointment'."

Conversely, at Universal if I stay on site, I can sleep in, take my time, walk up to nearly any attraction, show them my room key, and they let me into the Express line. It's that simple. I don't have to figure where I'm going or what I'm doing next. I can live in the moment knowing that, if I want, I can ride Men in Black next or, if I don't want that, I can ride The Simpsons next.

It's a vacation but FP and the new FP+ treat it like a planning choir. Great for a Disney exec who is use to looking at a Microsoft Project schedule but not for your average vacationer who just wants to have fun.

Universal's Express Pass system means vacation fun.

WDW's FP/FP+ system means vacation work.

Until WDW's execs get it into their heads that most people just want to relax when they're on vacation, they're going to keep trying to implement systems that they think make business sense for them, not that are fun for their paying customers.
 

djlaosc

Well-Known Member
People know Disney won't close its doors, over here in the UK the change is starting to happen with UOR getting some pretty good TV spots - as well as getting first bite of the UK tourist holiday money.

Looking at a specialised UK Florida Forum, it seems that most people who are looking to go to Florida, and Universal, are booking a night in one of their hotels for the Unlimited Express Pass/Early Entry to WWOHP, so that will be getting them some additional money compared to a few years ago.

And then you read comments from the people who have done this, and stayed for one night originally, loved it, and now are going back for 5 nights, etc...

We are planning to do this for our trip next year.
 

SirLink

Well-Known Member
I guess I'm just lucky...

Coming from the UK, every trip I've been on (2002, 2005, 2007, 2011) has been an "Orlando Vacation", so we've never thought of "Disney v Universal v SeaWorld", I've just thought of it as (now) "8 Theme Parks and 4 Water Parks (+ DC, KSC, LEGO, Malls, etc.)", and don't really have any loyalty to a particular brand.

Of course, we get 2-3 weeks, not 5-7 days. (Our 2014 trip was originally going to be 7 days, then 10, and now it has been booked at 14 - wish it was 21 again)

I'll add coming since the first half of the 90s and it used to be an Orlando holiday( minus the water parks) to more a general Florida trip, each couple of years since probably after 9/11 we started spending less time at Disney and started supplementing it with days at St.Augustine. Now we have started cutting into Disney days again and converted those extra 2 or so days as Uni days.
 

afar28

Well-Known Member
"Pay-to-play" systems like those at Universal are easy to understand and use. It's naked capitalism. A lot of people don't like it but nearly everyone understands the concept immediately. "I pay X dollars and get to use a faster line." No sticking cards in slots, no pieces of paper, no return times, no studying "the rules", no preplanning.

When I watch what happens at Universal, I'm always amazed at how many buy Express Passes after they arrive. There's a family of 4 spending more for Express Passes then they would have spent if they had just booked a night at one of Universal's lovely Deluxe Resorts which also would have included unlimited Express Passes for two days! But they buy 4 limited Express Passes anyway because they haven't done their "homework". Can you blame them? It's a vacation. It's supposed to be relaxing. It's supposed to be fun. When they purchase those limited Express Passes, they are buying "fun".

Going to Orlando already is a complex vacation for the uninitiated and FP/FP+ just makes it more complicated. Worse, FP tends to favor people like you and I; super-users who know every intricate detail. Users who know which FPs to pick up first, know how to tour the parks, and know what to do waiting for the FP return time.

FP+ won't solve anything. The uninitiated are going to say "Gee, I have an 'appointment' for Peter Pan in 50 minutes, Oh, I'm not sure what I can do, I don't want to miss it. I guess I better just stand here waiting for that 'appointment'."

Conversely, at Universal if I stay on site, I can sleep in, take my time, walk up to nearly any attraction, show them my room key, and they let me into the Express line. It's that simple. I don't have to figure where I'm going or what I'm doing next. I can live in the moment knowing that, if I want, I can ride Men in Black next or, if I don't want that, I can ride The Simpsons next.

It's a vacation but FP and the new FP+ treat it like a planning choir. Great for a Disney exec who is use to looking at a Microsoft Project schedule but not for your average vacationer who just wants to have fun.

Universal's Express Pass system means vacation fun.

WDW's FP/FP+ system means vacation work.

Until WDW's execs get it into their heads that most people just want to relax when they're on vacation, they're going to keep trying to implement systems that they think make business sense for them, not that are fun for their paying customers.
I agree with that about FP+, but totally disagree with current fast pass. You have 1 hour to come back, so it's not like you have to be perfectly on time. You have an hour to get to the attraction. I don't exactly call that work. But fast pass plus changes the system into work, and that's my main gripe with it
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
I agree with that about FP+, but totally disagree with current fast pass. You have 1 hour to come back, so it's not like you have to be perfectly on time. You have an hour to get to the attraction. I don't exactly call that work. But fast pass plus changes the system into work, and that's my main gripe with it
Don't think of FP the way you, the experienced FP user, view it. Think of it as the uninitiated do. Try to get into their heads. They see a time and want to be there right at the start of that return time. The sooner they are standing there, the sooner they can get on the ride. How many times do you see groups hanging out in front of the FP line waiting for their return time? Just ask any CM.

And yes, for even the experienced FP user, FP is a lot more work than Universal's Express Pass. At Universal, I stay onsite and go on whatever ride I want when I want. That's a vacation!:)
 

afar28

Well-Known Member
Don't think of FP the way you, the experienced FP user, view it. Think of it as the uninitiated do. Try to get into their heads. They see a time and want to be there right at the start of that return time. The sooner they are standing there, the sooner they can get on the ride. How many times do you see groups hanging out in front of the FP line waiting for their return time? Just ask any CM.

And yes, for even the experienced FP user, FP is a lot more work than Universal's Express Pass. At Universal, I stay onsite and go on whatever ride I want when I want. That's a vacation!:)
I agree with Express pass being better completely. Also, universal has better hotels also so it's better all around! But for the inexperienced FP user, you're right. If people utilized the whole hour and went back whenever they had the chance to within that hour rather than instantly, it would be much better.
 

djlaosc

Well-Known Member
I'll add coming since the first half of the 90s and it used to be an Orlando holiday( minus the water parks) to more a general Florida trip, each couple of years since probably after 9/11 we started spending less time at Disney and started supplementing it with days at St.Augustine. Now we have started cutting into Disney days again and converted those extra 2 or so days as Uni days.

For our next trip, the thing I am most looking forward to is going to Universal (and that is with me ranking USF #8 out of #8 that I mentioned above)

We are starting to look at doing other things apart from the theme parks as well - still touristy things, but trying to try new things different from the "8+4" I mentioned above...
2011: Kennedy Space Center, Cirque du Soleil
2014: Celebration, Blue Man Group, Ice! at Gaylord Palms
2016: Maybe I will finally get my trip on an airboat/scenic boat tour/swim with manatees/baseball game (can't really do any of that in December when we next go...)

While in the theme parks, we're also trying to get past the "major ride, major ride, major ride" thought (CoP, HoP, American Adventure, Ellen, Magic of Disney Animation, One Man's Dream were all firsts last trip that I would repeat in the future, and the first plan we made for the next time we went (not soon after we came back), was to spend more time in World Showcase watching the acts, rather than just going from ride to ride)

To get back on topic, more money spent at Universal will hopefully get people to expand their vacation plans past the WDW Bubble, and experience the other parks. When they realise that they are worthwhile places to spend your time, then maybe they will start to look further afield at attractions in the area beyond the theme parks - this seems to be where we are now). Then, because WDW starts to lose days to other places, they then decide to built some cutting edge attractions to try to draw people back. And then the cycle repeats. Everyone wins.

Of course, who know if/when that would happen.
 
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Bolt

Well-Known Member
For our next trip, the thing I am most looking forward to is going to Universal (and that is with me ranking USF #8 out of #8 that I mentioned above)

We are starting to look at doing other things apart from the theme parks as well - still touristy things, but trying to try new things different from the "8+4" I mentioned above...
2011: Kennedy Space Center, Cirque du Soleil
2014: Celebration, Blue Man Group, Ice! at Gaylord Palms
2016: Maybe I will finally get my trip on an airboat/scenic boat tour/swim with manatees/baseball game (can't really do any of that in December when we next go...)

While in the theme parks, we're also trying to get past the "major ride, major ride, major ride" thought (CoP, HoP, American Adventure, Ellen, Magic of Disney Animation, One Man's Dream were all firsts last trip that I would repeat in the future, and the first plan we made for the next time we went (not soon after we came back), was to spend more time in World Showcase watching the acts, rather than just going from ride to ride)

To get back on topic, more money spent at Universal will hopefully get people to expand their vacation plans past the WDW Bubble, and experience the other parks. When they realise that they are worthwhile places to spend your time, then maybe they will start to look further afield at attractions in the area beyond the theme parks - this seems to be where we are now). Then, because WDW starts to lose days to other places, they then decide to built some cutting edge attractions to try to draw people back. And then the cycle repeats. Everyone wins.

Of course, who know if/when that would happen.
There is nothing to do in Celebration.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
"Pay-to-play" systems like those at Universal are easy to understand and use. It's naked capitalism. A lot of people don't like it but nearly everyone understands the concept immediately. "I pay X dollars and get to use a faster line." No sticking cards in slots, no pieces of paper, no return times, no studying "the rules", no preplanning.

When I watch what happens at Universal, I'm always amazed at how many buy Express Passes after they arrive. There's a family of 4 spending more for Express Passes then they would have spent if they had just booked a night at one of Universal's lovely Deluxe Resorts which also would have included unlimited Express Passes for two days! But they buy 4 limited Express Passes anyway because they haven't done their "homework". Can you blame them? It's a vacation. It's supposed to be relaxing. It's supposed to be fun. When they purchase those limited Express Passes, they are buying "fun".

Going to Orlando already is a complex vacation for the uninitiated and FP/FP+ just makes it more complicated. Worse, FP tends to favor people like you and I; super-users who know every intricate detail. Users who know which FPs to pick up first, know how to tour the parks, and know what to do waiting for the FP return time.

FP+ won't solve anything. The uninitiated are going to say "Gee, I have an 'appointment' for Peter Pan in 50 minutes, Oh, I'm not sure what I can do, I don't want to miss it. I guess I better just stand here waiting for that 'appointment'."

Conversely, at Universal if I stay on site, I can sleep in, take my time, walk up to nearly any attraction, show them my room key, and they let me into the Express line. It's that simple. I don't have to figure where I'm going or what I'm doing next. I can live in the moment knowing that, if I want, I can ride Men in Black next or, if I don't want that, I can ride The Simpsons next.

It's a vacation but FP and the new FP+ treat it like a planning choir. Great for a Disney exec who is use to looking at a Microsoft Project schedule but not for your average vacationer who just wants to have fun.

Universal's Express Pass system means vacation fun.

WDW's FP/FP+ system means vacation work.

Until WDW's execs get it into their heads that most people just want to relax when they're on vacation, they're going to keep trying to implement systems that they think make business sense for them, not that are fun for their paying customers.

Great post.

It's easy for us to lose sight of how FP plays with non-fanatics. I know people who have been to WDW multiple times but never used FP because they think you have to pay for it. I have had I don't know how many people complain to me about Disney letting people jump in line. 14 years and lots of people still don't use or understand it. Very few use it effectively.

The end result is that a small number of people make out like bandits and the majority waits in longer standby lines. The small minority is more likely to visits sites like this one. So FP is immensely popular here. But the vast majority of guests complain about lines they don't realize have been artificially inflated by FP which they aren't making good use of or aren't using at all.
 

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