A Good Read ...

[Tramp&TheLady]

Sad...

I've been a longtime lurker on these forums. It has taken me this long to decide that I need the ability to be able to vent.

For the last few years I have seen my beloved Walt Disney World sink to it's current state. Under Eisner and the previous administrations the company was constantly refreshing itself. It produced a theme park and resort that prided itself on always amazing it's visitors from near and far.

On every subsequent visit I found myself wowed just like I had been as a child visiting Epcot Center for my first time. They produced magic and there was no one else who even came close to doing what Disney could.

But, Bob Eiger's disney has turned into a generic money obsessed machine that no longer prides itself on creating original and new memories anymore. Gone are the magical moments and wonderful memories created by things like 4-for-a-dollar surprising the awaiting crowd on a hot summer day with their blend of musical harmony, the thrill of having to duck to avoid being grabbed by the Yeti in expedition everest, or the sense of amazement and creativity that could be sparked in a child who visited The Universe of Energy, Journey into Imagination, or Horizons. The only thing that matters to Eiger and Co. is recycling the same old ideas over and over again to keep the dollars flowing (Cars II, Princesses, Avatar). Wal-Marting is how I've heard it described and I think it's a valid comparison.

I am sorry to say that Disney has allowed other companies (Universal) not only to catch up to them; but, in many ways to outdo them. Harry Potter land is just one example and I fear there are more to come.

The only thing that I believe will change the current downward spiral the company is on is if the dollars stop coming in. Maybe then the stockholders will demand a change. Otherwise, we will just continue to see beloved attractions and lands be ruined with nothing new to attract us.

I really hope this Avatar idea falls through. But, that's a story for another day...

 

[JimboJones123]

The 3 posts above sum up most frustrations.

The amount of money it would cost to open a 5th gate ia being spent on crap that the general public gives a flying flip about. The same amount of money could be used to make the three other parks as attraction filled as MK!

I am really tired of theme parks with less than 10 rides. It is pretty stupid.

 

[CountryBearFan]

I've been a longtime lurker on these forums. It has taken me this long to decide that I need the ability to be able to vent.

For the last few years I have seen my beloved Walt Disney World sink to it's current state. Under Eisner and the previous administrations the company was constantly refreshing itself. It produced a theme park and resort that prided itself on always amazing it's visitors from near and far.

On every subsequent visit I found myself wowed just like I had been as a child visiting Epcot Center for my first time. They produced magic and there was no one else who even came close to doing what Disney could.

But, Bob Eiger's disney has turned into a generic money obsessed machine that no longer prides itself on creating original and new memories anymore. Gone are the magical moments and wonderful memories created by things like 4-for-a-dollar surprising the awaiting crowd on a hot summer day with their blend of musical harmony, the thrill of having to duck to avoid being grabbed by the Yeti in expedition everest, or the sense of amazement and creativity that could be sparked in a child who visited The Universe of Energy, Journey into Imagination, or Horizons. The only thing that matters to Eiger and Co. is recycling the same old ideas over and over again to keep the dollars flowing (Cars II, Princesses, Avatar). Wal-Marting is how I've heard it described and I think it's a valid comparison.

I am sorry to say that Disney has allowed other companies (Universal) not only to catch up to them; but, in many ways to outdo them. Harry Potter land is just one example and I fear there are more to come.

The only thing that I believe will change the current downward spiral the company is on is if the dollars stop coming in. Maybe then the stockholders will demand a change. Otherwise, we will just continue to see beloved attractions and lands be ruined with nothing new to attract us.

I really hope this Avatar idea falls through. But, that's a story for another day...

The Eisner era was only good from 1984 to the mid-90's. It went downhill after Frank Wells died. For more, please read the book "Disney War".

I'm tired of people insulting poor Iger! He's saving the company from its second period of being turned into a joke, so be grateful and stop being too nice about Eisner (particularly post-Wells Eisner)!

 

[Lee]

He's saving the company from its second period of being turned into a joke

Please, elaborate on that statement. Tell us exactly what Iger is doing to "save the company".

 

[CountryBearFan]

As for Spirit's accusation that Iger doesn't write his own letters... How about giving us some actual proof that he doesn't?

 

[wm49rs]

As for Spirit's accusation that Iger doesn't write his own letters... How about giving us some actual proof that he doesn't?

How about providing proof that he does? Or proof of anything else you've been spewing out?

 

[djkidkaz]

Please, elaborate on that statement. Tell us exactly what Iger is doing to "save the company".

Well he made the smartest move of all which was to save the Pixar deal!

Also, I don't know how you guys continue to knock everything that is happening at WDW or with the Disney company. Its one thing to not like certain things, but to always have something negative to say makes all your opinions invalid. He also has been making huge improvements over at WDW! I just saw a photo someone posted of overgrown foliage being cutback on the shores of Bay Lake. Seriously?! Now that is paying attention to the details! We're also getting the entire MK repainted from top to bottom. A whole new Fantasyland ( and whats really important is that they listened to the complaints that its original plan was too girl heavy and they changed it! ) that looks great. They went in and cleaned up the leftover mess that was the Legendary Years of Pop Century. Would have been much easier to just demo and leave it as dirt. And we've also heard very strong rumors of the demo of River Country to be replaced by a resort. Again, they could just leave it to rot, or just demo it all together, but it would seem they aren't doing that. It shows that they know where the "problem areas" are at WDW and are taking the steps to fix it. We're also getting a huge expansion at AK. Now I don't agree with the choice of Avatar at all, but again, they listened to the fans on New Fantasyland so I don't see why they would completely ignore us on Avatar. Hell, even Martin mentioned that Disney is looking again at a way to get the Yeti moving. Lets not also forget Kilimanjaros safari, which everyone hates the stupid poacher ending with the crappy Little Red, and guess what, they are fixing that too!

These are just off the top of my head! Im sure if I sat and thought some more, I could go on and on! The whole doom and gloom, TDO is destroying everything stuff is getting lame. You all sound like a bunch of disgruntled employees who were fired and can't get over it years later.

 

[Lee]

Also, I don't know how you guys continue to knock everything that is happening at WDW or with the Disney company.

Nobody knocks everything.
I'm the first to admit that the good outnumbers the bad.
Perhaps that's what makes the bad stand out.

Pixar, good move. Marvel, good move. Building out the DCL, good move. Expanding AK, good move. Salvaging Legendary Years, good move. Good slate of films this year, good move. Expanding into mainland China, good move. Fixing the mess at DCA, good move.

There, that's just off the top of my head.

But, that said, they still don't get a pass when they screw something up. Mistakes should be pointed out right alongside the good moves.

You all sound like a bunch of disgruntled employees who were fired and can't get over it years later.

No. We sound like fans who care, and who hold our favorite company up to the highest of standards.

 

[CountryBearFan]

Well he made the smartest move of all which was to save the Pixar deal!

Also, I don't know how you guys continue to knock everything that is happening at WDW or with the Disney company. Its one thing to not like certain things, but to always have something negative to say makes all your opinions invalid. He also has been making huge improvements over at WDW! I just saw a photo someone posted of overgrown foliage being cutback on the shores of Bay Lake. Seriously?! Now that is paying attention to the details! We're also getting the entire MK repainted from top to bottom. A whole new Fantasyland ( and whats really important is that they listened to the complaints that its original plan was too girl heavy and they changed it! ) that looks great. They went in and cleaned up the leftover mess that was the Legendary Years of Pop Century. Would have been much easier to just demo and leave it as dirt. And we've also heard very strong rumors of the demo of River Country to be replaced by a resort. Again, they could just leave it to rot, or just demo it all together, but it would seem they aren't doing that. It shows that they know where the "problem areas" are at WDW and are taking the steps to fix it. We're also getting a huge expansion at AK. Now I don't agree with the choice of Avatar at all, but again, they listened to the fans on New Fantasyland so I don't see why they would completely ignore us on Avatar. Hell, even Martin mentioned that Disney is looking again at a way to get the Yeti moving. Lets not also forget Kilimanjaros safari, which everyone hates the stupid poacher ending with the crappy Little Red, and guess what, they are fixing that too!

These are just off the top of my head! Im sure if I sat and thought some more, I could go on and on! The whole doom and gloom, TDO is destroying everything stuff is getting lame. You all sound like a bunch of disgruntled employees who were fired and can't get over it years later.

Excellent post! (applauds Kaz)

 

[Lee]

Just to add...

I appreciate when they do something good, but I won't applaud basic maintainance, which they should be doing anyway. Such as painting, trimming foliage, etc.
As for some others points that were brought up:
River Country - Demo to make room for a DVC property. Motive: profit.
Legendary Years to Art of Animation - More rooms = more profit.
Yeti working - We'll see. Been broken for five years.
Fantasyland line-up change - The M&G were changed due to them being absolutely unworkable and an ops nightmare. Nothing to do with fans complaining.
Avatar - If it changes at all it won't have anything to do with any fanboy complaints.
Killamanjaro Safaris - Bad move. I, for one, quite liked the poacher story.

 

[wm49rs]

Just to add...

I appreciate when they do something good, but I won't applaud basic maintainance, which they should be doing anyway. Such as painting, trimming foliage, etc.
As for some others points that were brought up:
River Country - Demo to make room for a DVC property. Motive: profit.
Legendary Years to Art of Animation - More rooms = more profit.
Yeti working - We'll see. Been broken for five years.
Fantasyland line-up change - The M&G were changed due to them being absolutely unworkable and an ops nightmare. Nothing to do with fans complaining.
Avatar - If it changes at all it won't have anything to do with any fanboy complaints.
Killamanjaro Safaris - Bad move. I, for one, quite liked the poacher story.

We could also add the elimination of the clubs on PI (and the charlie-foxtrot that later became Hyperion Wharf), the reduction of offerings during the holidays, such as LoW and shows in the MVMCP, the lack of a new parade since what, the 1980's, and the expenditure of over $1 billion for NextGen projects (when some of those funds could have been put into new rides and attractions).

I'm a fan of when Disney gets it right. But many of their decisions recently have not skewed in the right direction for me.....

 

[djkidkaz]

Nobody knocks everything.
I'm the first to admit that the good outnumbers the bad.
Perhaps that's what makes the bad stand out.

Pixar, good move. Marvel, good move. Building out the DCL, good move. Expanding AK, good move. Salvaging Legendary Years, good move. Good slate of films this year, good move. Expanding into mainland China, good move. Fixing the mess at DCA, good move.

There, that's just off the top of my head.

But, that said, they still don't get a pass when they screw something up. Mistakes should be pointed out right alongside the good moves.

No. We sound like fans who care, and who hold our favorite company up to the highest of standards.

I agree, but I have to say I never see you mention the good. This is the first time in a LONG time I've seen you mention positive things about the Disney Company / WDW and their choices.

 

[CountryBearFan]

We could also add the elimination of the clubs on PI (and the charlie-foxtrot that later became Hyperion Wharf), the reduction of offerings during the holidays, such as LoW and shows in the MVMCP, the lack of a new parade since what, the 1980's, and the expenditure of over $1 billion for NextGen projects (when some of those funds could have been put into new rides and attractions).

I'm a fan of when Disney gets it right. But many of their decisions recently have not skewed in the right direction for me.....

Sounds to me like you're overlooking the good.

As for the new parade thing, the current parade has actually been around since 2001, not the 1980's.

And there's nothing wrong or bad with the NextGen projects. There is no "one or the other" type of situation involved in such matters at all. WDW does not have a single-tracked mind, like so many fans think. And they do not have to bring the NextGen initiative to a screeching halt just so they can fix Splash Mountain and anything else that isn't working properly--they're all seperate and have nothing to do with each other.

 

[djkidkaz]

Just to add...

I appreciate when they do something good, but I won't applaud basic maintainance, which they should be doing anyway. Such as painting, trimming foliage, etc.
As for some others points that were brought up:
River Country - Demo to make room for a DVC property. Motive: profit.
Legendary Years to Art of Animation - More rooms = more profit.
Yeti working - We'll see. Been broken for five years.
Fantasyland line-up change - The M&G were changed due to them being absolutely unworkable and an ops nightmare. Nothing to do with fans complaining.
Avatar - If it changes at all it won't have anything to do with any fanboy complaints.
Killamanjaro Safaris - Bad move. I, for one, quite liked the poacher story.

And seriously Lee, your complaints are "profit"? Of course they are building things for profit! Who runs a company with no thought of profit?! Disney tries to do most things with the idea that they can make something amazing that also produces profit. What is wrong with that? So what if they tear out River Country and build a DVC resort? River Country is rotted away and a beautiful hotel on the lake is a great addition. Who cares if its DVC or not? Either way as a regular guest I can pay to stay there if I want to shell out for it.

And how do you know that if Avatar is changed that its not because Disney listened to the enormous shrug that happened after it was announced? To me, that is just pure speculation on your part.

 

[wm49rs]

Sounds to me like you're overlooking the good.

As for the new parade thing, the current parade has actually been around since 2001, not the 1980's.

And there's nothing wrong or bad with the NextGen projects. There is no "one or the other" type of situation involved in such matters at all. WDW does not have a single-tracked mind, like so many fans think. And they do not have to bring the NextGen initiative to a screeching halt just so they can fix Splash Mountain and anything else that isn't working properly--they're all seperate and have nothing to do with each other.

No, I'm not overlooking the good. But I'm not going to ignore the poor decisions being made either.

And I said nothing about bringing the NextGen project to a halt. Merely not allocating so much money and resources to a project when new rides and/or attractions could accomplish many of the same results.

 

[djkidkaz]

We could also add the elimination of the clubs on PI (and the charlie-foxtrot that later became Hyperion Wharf), the reduction of offerings during the holidays, such as LoW and shows in the MVMCP, the lack of a new parade since what, the 1980's, and the expenditure of over $1 billion for NextGen projects (when some of those funds could have been put into new rides and attractions).

I'm a fan of when Disney gets it right. But many of their decisions recently have not skewed in the right direction for me.....

I agree, Pleasure Island is also a black eye, as is the whole West Side. But they proposed the Hyperion Wharf concept which was also met with a big shrug of the shoulders by most ( not to mention complaints from the Boardwalk tenants ) and it was laid to rest. Staggs has said that they are going to be announcing something exciting for the Downtown Disney area, and while yes it has taken way too long, Im excited to see what is proposed. New parade, completely agree! How hard is it to create some new floats and a new soundtrack. Don't know what the deal is with this.

Next Gen, so far im not impressed with what has been shown, but again, we really haven't seen much of anything shown. So far we've seen a couple interactive queues that you can choose to interact with or just walk on by. So while money is being spent on this, I can't say Im upset by it. I fiddle with the stuff while Im in line and I understand Disney has to continue to try new things and evolve. Money has to be spent on experimenting. What if Walt had built the Viewliner at Disneyland and then left it rather than tear it out a year later and spend money on a monorail. The Viewliner was basically the monorail just running on rails on the ground, but Walt saw a technological advance in the monorail and tore it out and put in the monorail. Was it a waste of money?

 

[wm49rs]

I have no problem with what I've seen from the NextGen project (save for perhaps the XPass idea). What I have issue with is the notion that they're spending so much on this project (which in part so far includes what are essentially crowd control methods) when providing new rides and attractions could accomplish much of the same. It's the scale of the project that I take exception to, not all aspects of the project itself.

 

[Lee]

Wow, I thought you were going to actually say something positive and not find something to complain about. But 3 posts later, here we are.

Just trying to provide a counterpoint to your points. I like to keep things fair, even if it sometimes doesn't seem that way.
I said good things, too, remember? Keeping it level.

And seriously Lee, your complaints are "profit"? Of course they are building things for profit! Who runs a company with no thought of profit?! Disney tries to do most things with the idea that they can make something amazing that also produces profit. What is wrong with that? So what if they tear out River Country and build a DVC resort? River Country is rotted away and a beautiful hotel on the lake is a great addition. Who cares if its DVC or not? Either way as a regular guest I can pay to stay there if I want to shell out for it.

That was my clumsy attempt to counter the idea that they are addressing things like River Country because they "notice the little things" and want to make it better just because they are so thoughtful. If there wasn't money to be made there, they would indeed let it rot away just like Discovery Island is currently doing.
As you said, they are a for-profit company. That is the rationale for every move they make. Not complaining, exactly, just putting it into perspective.

And how do you know that if Avatar is changed that its not because Disney listened to the enormous shrug that happened after it was announced? To me, that is just pure speculation on your part.

The same way I know that the changes to the FLE had nothing to do with fan reaction, no matter how they try to spin it. I know it because people involved with the project told me so. That is how I know pretty much everything I know. I never speculate without stating that I am doing so, and even then it's extremely rare.
Avatar was pursued and paid for because (Disney believes) it appeals to a broad audience. That broad audience will no doubt love it. The hardcore fan community's opinion is absolutely meaningless in the course of a multi-hundred million dollar capital project.

 

[Lee]

As for the new parade thing, the current parade has actually been around since 2001, not the 1980's.

No. Spectromagic has been around since 1991, with only minor changes.
Twenty-one years.
MSEP? That dates back to 1977.
Time for something entirely new, no?

And there's nothing wrong or bad with the NextGen projects. There is no "one or the other" type of situation involved in such matters at all. WDW does not have a single-tracked mind, like so many fans think. And they do not have to bring the NextGen initiative to a screeching halt just so they can fix Splash Mountain and anything else that isn't working properly--they're all seperate and have nothing to do with each other.

That billion dollars could have been spent in any number of ways that would more directly impact park guests. New rides, shows, parades...
Instead, we get interactive queues, X-Pass, and other little additions.
Oh...and we also get extensive data-mining and information gathering to help track and classify guests. Sounds fun, huh?

 

[Captain Chaos]

No. Spectromagic has been around since 1991, with only minor changes.
Twenty-one years.
MSEP? That dates back to 1977.
Time for something entirely new, no?

lee, stop posting facts!!!

Sounds fun, huh?

Yes, because it is Disney, the perfectly perfect in every way theme park (just ignore the broken AA's, bad show, stale parades, etc etc etc)...