If monorail expansion is too expensive, why not peoplemover?

[PeterAlt]

I didn't realize what it took to get monorail built. The foundations and so on are a big and expensive part of building track. I assume that this expense is necessary because the monorail trains are not light weights, so you need all that concrete infrastructure to support it.

Peoplemover systems, on the other hand, are much lighter and probably does not need so much concrete support to keep it elevated. A buildout of small peoplemover routes instead of new monorail track may be the way to go to connect Disney attractions and resorts.

I envision one possible route that starts at the EPCOT Center monorail station, runs behind Living Seas, along Ave of Stars to International Gateway (where there would be a stop), to the front of Disney BoardWalk (where there would be a stop), along the canal to DHS (where there would be a stop).

Routes like this with peoplemovers instead of monorails would cost less to build, connect more "pin-point" areas (because of its smaller size), would be popular for guests because of its convenience and attraction-like appearance, and help with traffic congestion, as well as being environment friendly.

Your thoughts?

 

[jl3283]

Well, something needs to be done. Going from MK to Epcot is okay but we have to drive to AK & HS?

 

[Skipper Dan]

I've always thought this. After all, it was going to be one of the main means of transportation in Walt's Community of Tomorrow. :king:

 

[lt94]

expanding a monorail system is expensive BUT the same in cost as the building as a dvc building the differance is profit a monorail does not pay it's an reoccuring expence yes you would get more people useing and want to stay in the area for monorail service. The cost is comming down on monorail const. they are being built everywhere several fourms on this ie Vegas I also beleve that maint and operating is cheaper than a bus plus the green aspect

 

[zooey]

No, but there is a ton of profit potential in further simplifying transportation so guests stay on property longer.

 

[Master Yoda]

expanding a monorail system is expensive BUT the same in cost as the building as a dvc building the differance is profit a monorail does not pay it's an reoccuring expence yes you would get more people useing and want to stay in the area for monorail service. The cost is comming down on monorail const. they are being built everywhere several fourms on this ie Vegas I also beleve that maint and operating is cheaper than a bus plus the green aspect

How are costs coming down? Concrete and steel prices are higher than ever. About the only thing that has dropped even a little might be labor and we are talking 1%-2% at best. The Vegas monorail filed for bankruptcy in 2010 and has yet to come up with a acceptable plan to resolve it. The cost of a DVC building is a mere pittance compared to what track alone would cost for a monorail and the DVC building starts generating profit almost immediately.

 

[ddrongowski]

My personal solution for this issue is a convertable rental car. But this is my "personal" solution.

 

[c-one]

Disney is always going to go with the most inexpensive transportation option possible. Beyond giving visitors an incentive to stay on property, perhaps for longer, there's no profit to be made in transit -- indeed, there's a loss.

The vast majority of urban mass-transit systems -- the DC Metro, the New York subway, the London Underground -- operate at a loss. These systems do not run on $2 fares. Your fare is just a small part of the overall budget. Governments fund mass-transit systems and run them at a loss because on balance, they're necessary to facilitate commerce and living in the city. Where's the incentive to run a money-losing transit operation for a private business?

 

[rsoxguy]

Disney needs to work on the development of a Star Trek type of transporter system. There's your solution.

 

[bgraham34]

It might not necessarily be the cost to produce these things it more like there is no return on investment. Disney would not charge you to ride the monorail but you pay for it in other ways. Just because they could build a monorail connecting all the parks does not mean its worth it in the long run. It would actually be cheaper to install a rail line vs monorail line.

 

[Kirk88]

Peoplemover systems, on the other hand, are much lighter and probably does not need so much concrete support to keep it elevated. A buildout of small peoplemover routes instead of new monorail track may be the way to go to connect Disney attractions and resorts.

I envision one possible route that starts at the EPCOT Center monorail station, runs behind Living Seas, along Ave of Stars to International Gateway (where there would be a stop), to the front of Disney BoardWalk (where there would be a stop), along the canal to DHS (where there would be a stop).

Routes like this with peoplemovers instead of monorails would cost less to build, connect more "pin-point" areas (because of its smaller size), would be popular for guests because of its convenience and attraction-like appearance, and help with traffic congestion, as well as being environment friendly.

Your thoughts?

I like your idea! The bus system can be a real pain (depending on what resort you're at). This would definitely provide a way to "thin the herd" as far as transportation goes. And, as it's already been stated, ties directly into Uncle Walt's ideas!

 

[Rinx]

Peoplemover systems will create a major eye sore. Think about having these things all over property, especially the boardwalk. Plus, the peoplemover is very slow for transportation needs so they would need to redesign the entire concept, make everything larger, etc. Before you know it, the costs will be close to building monorails due to the size of everything. My rough guess is that if you model it after the Peoplemover in Tomorrowland, it would have to be at least three or four times the size. And of course, the ride vehicles will look nothing like they do now. Definitely needs to be enclosed for starters and permit standing.

 

[harryk]

Peoplemover systems will create a major eye sore. Think about having these things all over property, especially the boardwalk. Plus, the peoplemover is very slow for transportation needs so they would need to redesign the entire concept, make everything larger, etc. Before you know it, the costs will be close to building monorails due to the size of everything. My rough guess is that if you model it after the Peoplemover in Tomorrowland, it would have to be at least three or four times the size. And of course, the ride vehicles will look nothing like they do now. Definitely needs to be enclosed for starters and permit standing.

Use the same type vehicle as in Tomorrowland and with the same covering as in Tomorrowland. No standing permitted. The units could be a little longer than in Tomorrowland. Track could be in wooded area near the parks and only approach the parks for guests to get on or off the train. Ticket and Transportation Center, International Gateway, Swan/Dolphin area, Hollywood Studios and even out to Animal Kingdom and the Lodge. It could be done if WDW management wanted to do it.

Disney talked about a mag-lev system from Orlando International to Ticket and Transportation System. This was opposed by the transport unions in the Orlando area in that it would cut into the local businesses who served the parks.

The peoplemovers are the next best thing.

All this is a pipe dream - Disney loves the bus system.

 

[Thrill]

Don't know about this idea. I have no clue where the costs of a PeopleMover system would be, as there aren't many systems operating. I can't imagine that it's much cheaper than the Monorail, though, and it still faces the same logistical issues as the Monorail in that it's inflexible.

expanding a monorail system is expensive BUT the same in cost as the building as a dvc building the differance is profit a monorail does not pay it's an reoccuring expence yes you would get more people useing and want to stay in the area for monorail service. The cost is comming down on monorail const. they are being built everywhere several fourms on this ie Vegas I also beleve that maint and operating is cheaper than a bus plus the green aspect

I don't see how a Monorail expansion is the same cost as a new DVC resort. Monorail tracks run about $30-35 million per mile, and then they would have to build stations and new trains, in addition to the existing trains. All of those then need to be maintained, which costs more money down the line.

New DVCs are cheaper to start up than a new Monorail line, and they make profit within a couple years of opening, if not earlier. Maintenance is then covered almost entirely by dues.

As for environmental friendliness, I'd imagine that the Monorail is more eco-friendly than buses. And maintenance, I would think that buses are cheaper on a per-guest basis, because there is no track to maintain. Then you add in the logistics of the Monorail. They are limited as to where they can reach, the tracks can't possibly come near the volume of a road, and if a line goes down (as they so often do), there is nothing to back them up.

 

[marni1971]

There were plans to run a WEDWay around Lake Buena Vista so the idea wasn't out of the question. However it was tied into a wider Monorail expansion.

Disney also developed a Community Transport division and developed commercial WEDWay solutions, like nstalled at Houston Airport in 1981. Sadly the idea never caught on.

 

[UberMouse]

In the long run it would be less fuel used to bus or ferry people from one destination to another. Currently electricity is still cheaper per mile than hydrocarbon based fuel. Especially Diesel.

 

[Polydweller]

Does anyone know the cost of the Peoplemover? It needs concrete footings, miles of track, maglev units every few feet, and stations. Not sure why it would be assumed to be significantly cheaper.

 

[ScoutN]

Lightrail is surely not a good option either. Take a good hard look at the Norfolk, Va lightrail fiasco.

 

[Aloha]

The people mover is pretty slow, and more like a tour ride kind of thing, rather than a transportation system (to me anyway).

 

[PeterAlt]

Peoplemover systems will create a major eye sore. Think about having these things all over property, especially the boardwalk. Plus, the peoplemover is very slow for transportation needs so they would need to redesign the entire concept, make everything larger, etc. Before you know it, the costs will be close to building monorails due to the size of everything. My rough guess is that if you model it after the Peoplemover in Tomorrowland, it would have to be at least three or four times the size. And of course, the ride vehicles will look nothing like they do now. Definitely needs to be enclosed for starters and permit standing.

Go on Google Maps and trace the path of my proposed route. You will see, all the rights of way are clear. You will see its mostly runs "back stage" so it's not spoiling any themed section. The Boardwalk station would be in front of the hotel parking lot at the front entrance, not within the Boardwalk itself. Any overlapping areas could be themed.

This would not be a "heavy" system, like the Miami Metromover (which cost more or the same as monorail). The idea is to keep it light and use grade level wherever possible. Cars would be automated and covered so that they would operate rain or shine.