What training do Photopass CMs go through?

[durangojim]

Just curious what training photopass CMs go through.

 

[Teenchy]

I'm not sure but based on some of the photos we have had, not much. It doesn't seem like they know much about light and "sun flares" of the lenses. (Dint know if thats the correct photo term) but we have had alot of photos that were not so great.

 

[mkt]

This is a camera, this is a shutter.

 

[Gepettotrevor]

Thank you for applying to be a PhotoPass CM.

Here is all of the training you will need:
1) Say hello to guest (A guest is anyone without a nametag on incase you get confused, pictured here)
2) Swipe Card (Here is a picture incase you don't know what a card is)
3) Have people stand infront of something really big (Like a castle or a giant hat, also pictured here)
4) Push big red button (Here is a picture of the big red button, you push it with a finger (also pictured here incase you forgot))
5) Tell guest to have a nice day

Oh and don't look too pi$$ed off when these people ask you to take pictures with their camera instead.


Congratulations, you are now a professional photographer.



hahaha

 

[shmmrname]

Wow.

I thought your question was fairly unique, but I expected there to be at least a small amount of decent replies. We've had decent luck w/the Photopass CM's. I'm wondering if they are treated as others in regards to placement, like attraction-based CM's, or if it's a completely separate entity.

 

[Gepettotrevor]

Wow.

I thought your question was fairly unique, but I expected there to be at least a small amount of decent replies. We've had decent luck w/the Photopass CM's. I'm wondering if they are treated as others in regards to placement, like attraction-based CM's, or if it's a completely separate entity.

In all seriousness here, I wonder if they put some CP's who are studying photography in this position as part of some kind of internship?

I will say that I like the photopass system. A lot of these guys know what they are doing and I have had some pretty good shots. I enjoy it because you can pull the pictures up online before you can buy them. Just because you have the picture taken doesn't mean you are automatically obligated to buy them. This has to make it *SOMEWHAT* easier on the photopass cm's taking the pictures

 

[durangojim]

I was mostly interested if they learn about photography -- f stops, depth of field, "film" speed, etc. I would say that about 25% of the pics taken by photopass cms are good pics, but many are not exposed correctly or out of focus. This seems especially prevalent at night. Many times I'll set my camera at the aperature and speed I'd like and then ask them to take the pictures. We can usually tell the ones who know what they're doing because they say something like "nice camera" and hold it with one hand on the lens and one on the body. I cringe whenever someone holds my dslr like a point and shoot with both hands on the body with the lens waiving in front of them.

 

[yankspy]

I believe we have a few photopass CM's that are members here. I am pretty sure that Gorjus is one of them. Perhaps she could shed some light on this question.

 

[TowerOfTerror]

I can tell you in a couple weeks.

I would imagine that it will be akin to what Gepettotrevor or MKT said. :lol:

 

[PhotoDave219]

I'm not sure but based on some of the photos we have had, not much. It doesn't seem like they know much about light and "sun flares" of the lenses. (Dint know if thats the correct photo term) but we have had alot of photos that were not so great.

Thats the correct term. At the risk of alienating the resident photopass CMs who reside on these forums, 95-99% of them are "shutter monkeys" wherein all they know how to do is push the freakin button.

Conversely.....

You get what you pay for. I will not take $8-$9 dollars an hour for grip-and-grin photography. I take what i do very seriously, and if you want serious photo quality, you're going to have to pay a whole heck of a lot more than that to get better photos.

I was mostly interested if they learn about photography -- f stops, depth of field, "film" speed, etc. I would say that about 25% of the pics taken by photopass cms are good pics, but many are not exposed correctly or out of focus. This seems especially prevalent at night. Many times I'll set my camera at the aperature and speed I'd like and then ask them to take the pictures. We can usually tell the ones who know what they're doing because they say something like "nice camera" and hold it with one hand on the lens and one on the body. I cringe whenever someone holds my dslr like a point and shoot with both hands on the body with the lens waiving in front of them.

Most do not understand that concept. The advent of digital photography has made it so that "Anyone can be a photographer"...... much like "Anyone can be a chef." Quality photography is not valued (ask Sam Zell) because the general conception in this country is that "anyone can do it." Thus people accept and strive for mediocrity when all you need to know is to learn a few basics and you can take good pictures consistently.

Best advice? Have a point and shoot handy and ready for the photopass people, set on auto. I'm not handing over my brand-new dSLR to anyone, letalone a theme park CM.

In all seriousness here, I wonder if they put some CP's who are studying photography in this position as part of some kind of internship?

That WAS the original concept when the program was started in summer 2004. Good photos by college interns studying photography, something beyond what Kodak was offering as well a unique photo or two. Of course they got some GSMs in who were all about retail and sales and frankly didn't give a flying F about what the photos looked like. They were concerned with numbers and goals. The original management team on the front line had one former entertainment person and one from toontown merch and the rest were just your garden-variety Disney park GSM's who were trying to just get by and get a promotion. Later they promoted a few of the original photographers into management but at that point the die had been cast and the culture already established.

They got tired of babysitting and trying to get people to actually approach guests and take pictures rather than just standing around and by the end of 2004, all the CPs were gone and it was all moved to hourly cast.

Like i said, you want quality, You have to pay for it. Real photographers, people who make a living by the quality of their photos and can handle something outside a studio and actually photograph people (not some landscape or sunset) costs money.

 

[mkt]

Like i said, you want quality, You have to pay for it. Real photographers, people who make a living by the quality of their photos and can handle something outside a studio and actually photograph people (not some landscape or sunset) costs money.

$600 for 2 hours last week at the beach with the family.

I'm in the wrong business... I have to fight for $50/hr. That photographer made $300/hr.

But I suppose when you're a giant fish in a thimble of water (that's the scale of the big fish/little pond comparo), you charge what you want.

We did get a CD with all of the files though, and I conviced her to dump the RAW files into a pen drive for me

 

[DABIGCHEEZ]

Well....well..... well... From the pictures I have seen taken by photopass Photographers over the past few year, I would say most of them have as much training as I do, and I have no professional photography training. Most pics that I took with my camera were IMO just as good or better than the photopass photo. True that some pics by photopass were better and I am sure than some photographers are much better at it than others. I will say the photopass pics taken at the waterparks did come out much better then mine. Overall nothing to make me want to pay the crazy amount for the CD though.

This has been my experience with Photopass and is just my opinion. I know it works well for others so please don't start the BS.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Well....well..... well... From the pictures I have seen taken by photopass Photographers over the past few year, I would say most of them have as much training as I do, and I have no professional photography training. Most pics that I took with my camera were IMO just as good or better than the photopass photo. True that some pics by photopass were better and I am sure than some photographers are much better at it than others. I will say the photopass pics taken at the waterparks did come out much better then mine. Overall nothing to make me want to pay the crazy amount for the CD though.

This has been my experience with Photopass and is just my opinion. I know it works well for others so please don't start the BS.

Your opinion seems rather condescending . So you'll have to excuse any "BS" that you are inferring from people not agreeing with you and frankly, having experiences that differ from yours is not "BS."

Most of us expect the basics from Disney photopass - proper exposure and a decent if not basic composition. For a $9/hr photographer, thats all I'd expect. For the equipment Disney has for the program (Nikon D70 SLRs and SB-800 flashes), there's no excuse for why everyone cannot have the experience the above poster had. This is a skill that is worked on every day, 32-40 hours a week. People should be getting better but clearly they're not. Granted, there are a couple of good ones here and there but the average photo produced still isn't up to what it should be.

There's no way you cannot train people how to use a camera basically and produce good images, unless you have bad management and a sales-oriented culture.... which is what the first manager ****** ever cared about. It was all about sales then, which i suppose is what you get when you start a photo department managed by people with a sales/merch background. You start with a sales culture, you end up with a sales culture.

The program still to this day cares more about numbers and high volumes of images rather than producing basic images that guests cant complain about - proper exposure and basic composition.

There's lots of reasons why not every photopass shot comes out like Gorjus or Mattboom's. Management, money, training, CM motivation and every other reason why you aren't 100% at your job every moment of your life. (6 or 8 hour shift, 95 degrees, 80% humidity?) I'm going to continue to fault management as to why things aren't the way they should be. As long as it is run like a sales department as opposed to a photo outfit, it will never change.

 

[mkt]

As long as it is run like a sales department as opposed to a photo outfit, it will never change.

The same thing could be said about almost everything at Disney... in fact, it's the same thing I've said for years.

Disney needs less MBA/MPA/MHA and more people that actually give a ________ about the company as opposed to their career.

 

[DABIGCHEEZ]

Thats the correct term. At the risk of alienating the resident photopass CMs who reside on these forums, 95-99% of them are "shutter monkeys" wherein all they know how to do is push the freakin button.

Conversely.....

You get what you pay for. I will not take $8-$9 dollars an hour for grip-and-grin photography. I take what i do very seriously, and if you want serious photo quality, you're going to have to pay a whole heck of a lot more than that to get better photos.



Most do not understand that concept. The advent of digital photography has made it so that "Anyone can be a photographer"...... much like "Anyone can be a chef." Quality photography is not valued (ask Sam Zell) because the general conception in this country is that "anyone can do it." Thus people accept and strive for mediocrity when all you need to know is to learn a few basics and you can take good pictures consistently.

Best advice? Have a point and shoot handy and ready for the photopass people, set on auto. I'm not handing over my brand-new dSLR to anyone, letalone a theme park CM.




That WAS the original concept when the program was started in summer 2004. Good photos by college interns studying photography, something beyond what Kodak was offering as well a unique photo or two. Of course they got some GSMs in who were all about retail and sales and frankly didn't give a flying F about what the photos looked like. They were concerned with numbers and goals. The original management team on the front line had one former entertainment person and one from toontown merch and the rest were just your garden-variety Disney park GSM's who were trying to just get by and get a promotion. Later they promoted a few of the original photographers into management but at that point the die had been cast and the culture already established.

They got tired of babysitting and trying to get people to actually approach guests and take pictures rather than just standing around and by the end of 2004, all the CPs were gone and it was all moved to hourly cast.

Like i said, you want quality, You have to pay for it. Real photographers, people who make a living by the quality of their photos and can handle something outside a studio and actually photograph people (not some landscape or sunset) costs money.

I think you should not call others condescending when your comments fit the bill.

Your opinion seems rather condescending . So you'll have to excuse any "BS" that you are inferring from people not agreeing with you and frankly, having experiences that differ from yours is not "BS."

Most of us expect the basics from Disney photopass - proper exposure and a decent if not basic composition. For a $9/hr photographer, thats all I'd expect. For the equipment Disney has for the program (Nikon D70 SLRs and SB-800 flashes), there's no excuse for why everyone cannot have the experience the above poster had. This is a skill that is worked on every day, 32-40 hours a week. People should be getting better but clearly they're not. Granted, there are a couple of good ones here and there but the average photo produced still isn't up to what it should be.

There's no way you cannot train people how to use a camera basically and produce good images, unless you have bad management and a sales-oriented culture.... which is what the first manager ****** ever cared about. It was all about sales then, which i suppose is what you get when you start a photo department managed by people with a sales/merch background. You start with a sales culture, you end up with a sales culture.

The program still to this day cares more about numbers and high volumes of images rather than producing basic images that guests cant complain about - proper exposure and basic composition.

There's lots of reasons why not every photopass shot comes out like Gorjus or Mattboom's. Management, money, training, CM motivation and every other reason why you aren't 100% at your job every moment of your life. (6 or 8 hour shift, 95 degrees, 80% humidity?) I'm going to continue to fault management as to why things aren't the way they should be. As long as it is run like a sales department as opposed to a photo outfit, it will never change.

I just knew someone would start. I thought I clearly stated it was just my experience with Photopass and I understand others love it and praise it. I will probably still have photpass photographers take our pics and maybe one year my view will be changed, but until now my experiences make me form my opinion. I never said others opinion were BS. I was referring to the wisenheimer comments as "BS", so sorry if you misunderstood.

 

[mkt]

I was referring to the wisenheimer comments as "BS", so sorry if you misunderstood.

Hello

 

[Frank Stallone]

Years of training with this guy...

 

[yankspy]

The same thing could be said about almost everything at Disney... in fact, it's the same thing I've said for years.

Disney needs less MBA/MPA/MHA and more people that actually give a ________ about the company as opposed to their career.

Why not have MBA's who care about the company and their career? That would seem like a logical goal.

 

[mkt]

[/B]
Why not have MBA's who care about the company and their career? That would seem like a logical goal.

With caring about both, I am of the belief that there needs to be compromise in play. Generally, human greed will compromise their caring for the company.

That's why.

And it's not a bash on MBA's

 

[yankspy]

With caring about both, I am of the belief that there needs to be compromise in play. Generally, human greed will compromise their caring for the company.

That's why.

And it's not a bash on MBA's[/quote]
No worries, I do not have one. My grad degree only has 2 initials. As far as greed, I am not sure that any human is totally immune from it, whether they care or not.

As far as what Photodave said, this seems odd. Logic would tell me that if you wish to boost sales, you should put out a superior product. If what he said was true, (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) this a troubling trend.