DisneylandForward

[Disney Irish]

Hear me out, it's possible that despite what was teased as part of Disneyland Forward, the Simba lot will be used solely for new hotel space and the Toy Story lot will be used for a third park. So DCA won't be expanded across Disneyland Drive which is why a more permanent fence is being built now.

My only thoughts on this, and its been brought up before, is that with no infrastructure in TSL the usable space is much much less than everyone thinks since that has to be accounted for.

So assuming that 1/3 is used for backstage for infrastructure. If my math is correct, you're looking at just over 48 acres of usable space (give or take some). That is about 24 acres less than DCA when including the new ride areas currently or about to be under construction. That would give you maybe 3 or 4 big lands at 2-3 attractions each. So you're looking at ~12 rides, maybe a few more. While doable I don't see that as a plan for the future, nor do I see it as a viable "3rd gate". Just my opinion of course.

 

[mickEblu]

Its all coming into focus now...

• Scaled back Avatar going into the backlot/ bus transpo lot (OC register article stating Pandora opens in 2028 would make more sense)
• Third Gate going to Toy Story Lot
• Hotel and more retail/ restaurants going to Simba Lot (possibly including one land in the future?)
• All other DL Forward attractions going to the DL side

 

[coffeefan]

When that new fence along Disneyland Dr. started going in, I thought maybe it could temporary (and by that I mean under ten years) and be removed as necessary when they expanded DCA over to Simba. But seeing that it looks like they're pouring a continuous concrete foundation (or something) along the bottom of the fence has me wondering just how permanent they intend it. Not that they couldn't remove it still.
View attachment 909912

It could also be that the bridge to Simba may not be where fans speculated it to be.
And hopefully it means more changes to PP (and the HS) before Simba happens.

 

[Disney Irish]

Its all coming into focus now...

• Scaled back Avatar going into the backlot/ bus transpo lot (OC register article stating Pandora opens in 2028 would make more sense)
• Third Gate going to Toy Story Lot
• Hotel and more retail/ restaurants going to Simba Lot (possibly including one land in the future?)
• All other DL Forward attractions going to the DL side

So in this future of yours how many new attractions are you envisioning?

 

[mickEblu]

So in this future of yours how many new attractions are you envisioning?

Where exactly? Total across the resort?

 

[Disney Irish]

Where exactly? Total across the resort?

Total, because that doesn't seem like the most optimal use of space with what is available.

 

[DrStarlander]

It could also be that the bridge to Simba may not be where fans speculated it to be.

Indeed. With Pixar Place Hotel there it gets tricky to thread the needle, even if the bridge goes through what is now Paradise Gardens. Hopefully tearing the hotel down and starting fresh over there is part of the plan.

 

[DLR92]

I don’t know if Disney has an actual plan. Or they are hiding something the public and competitors they don’t want to share at the moment.
I thought the plans for Toy Story Lot seem like early concept of looking into a pleasure garden idea. Perhaps use Tivoli Gardens and Epcot world Showcase including the former WESTCot plans as inspirations for Toy Story Lot.

 

[Disney Irish]

Indeed. With Pixar Place Hotel there it gets tricky to thread the needle, even if the bridge goes through what is now Paradise Gardens. Hopefully tearing the hotel down and starting fresh over there is part of the plan.

I mean who says the bridge has to be straight across DL Dr? I could imagine that a curved winding bridge could be used. Even the EGW bridge looks to be a bit winding in the concept art, as its not going to be able to be fully straight where its coming from and going to.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don’t know if Disney has an actual plan. Or they are hiding something the public and competitors they don’t want to share at the moment.
I thought the plans for Toy Story Lot seem like early concept of looking into a pleasure garden. Perhaps use Tivoli Gardens and Epcot world Showcase including the former WESTCot plans as inspirations for Toy Story Lot.

It seems more like Disney Springs to me.

 

[mickEblu]

Total, because that doesn't seem like the most optimal use of space with what is available.

I think it is. If they go with a condensed West coast World showcase with a smaller lagoon you can get a solid 10-12 attractions in there. On par with Epic Universe and majority of the second gates around the world. I can't think of a better way to get some of the major IP/attractions that DLR is missing with a theme that would be perfect for DLR's demo. Eating /drinking around the world. Festivals year round. Poppins in London, Sleepy Hollow Ichabod Crane or Up in America/ New England, Moana ride in the South Pacific, Frozen in Norway, BatB in France, Encanto in Columbia, Aladdin in a Middle Eastern pavilion etc. A modern park with 4-5 single IP lands would be too limiting. Basically any ride that cant fit in a West Coast world showcase are the properties they should look at for DLR proper. Fantasy stuff that don't fit nicely or work with my proposed park, Star Wars, Monsters, Zootopia etc.


Third Gate - 12 attractions
DL Forward expansion lots (not including possible Fantasyland, TL or GE attractions on DL Proper - 5
DCA Simba lot 2- 3?

Ideally you'd have Pandora as the only land on the Simba lot with the new hotel/ retail. Freeing up the space on the backlot for Monsters or Zootopia.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think it is. If they go with a condensed West coast World showcase with a smaller lagoon you can get a solid 10-12 attractions in there. On par with Epic Universe and majority of the second gates around the world. I can't think of a better way to get some of the major IP/attractions that DLR is missing with a theme that would be perfect for DLR's demo. Eating /drinking around the world. Festivals year round. Poppins in London, Sleepy Hollow Ichabod Crane or Up in America/ New England, Moana ride in the South Pacific, Frozen in Norway, BatB in France, Encanto in Columbia, Aladdin in a Middle Eastern pavilion etc. A modern park with 4-5 single IP lands would be too limiting. Basically any ride that cant fit in a West Coast world showcase are the properties they should look at for DLR proper. Fantasy stuff that don't fit nicely or work with my proposed park, Star Wars, Monsters, Zootopia etc.


Third Gate - 12 attractions
DL Forward expansion lots (not including possible Fantasyland, TL or GE attractions on DL Proper - 5
DCA Simba lot 2- 3?

Ideally you'd have Pandora as the only land on the Simba lot with the new hotel/ retail. Freeing up the space on the backlot for Monsters or Zootopia.

They won't be huge E-Tickets, they'd have to be smaller C-D tickets at this 3rd gate world showcase of yours. Because as I measure it, when adding in backstage you only get about 48 acres of usable area, that isn't much, DCA is 72 for example. Basically a Pandora or GE takes up 1/3 of that available space, so you get about 3 modern WDI lands in this 3rd gate.

And you don't think they can get the same 17-20 attractions using the entire west side as expansion? Also you'd be ok with no further expansion of that 3rd gate in the future, as it would be locked.

 

[DLR92]

It seems more like Disney Springs to me.

Maybe so. The lot does allow theme park use.

 

[Disney Irish]

Maybe so. The lot does allow theme park use.

It does but it was always described as a "theme park experience", which doesn't indicate much of an actual "theme park".

 

[DrStarlander]

I mean who says the bridge has to be straight across DL Dr? I could imagine that a curved winding bridge could be used. Even the EGW bridge looks to be a bit winding in the concept art, as its not going to be able to be fully straight where its coming from and going to.

Sure I love a curved bridge myself. It's just an awkward needle to thread now unless the Hotel is affected or the new Fence is affected, which as I said, is totally still possible.

If the bridge is at park grade (and the street lowers) there are a bunch of parameters with the hotel entries on either side, the distance from the intersection with Katella to get down 18 feet or so, interesting obstacles all around.

 

[coffeefan]

Indeed. With Pixar Place Hotel there it gets tricky to thread the needle, even if the bridge goes through what is now Paradise Gardens. Hopefully tearing the hotel down and starting fresh over there is part of the plan.

I think all options are on the table. It would make sense to align hotels along the back to act as a sound barrier from the parks.

 

[mickEblu]

They won't be huge E-Tickets, they'd have to be smaller C-D tickets at this 3rd gate world showcase of yours. Because as I measure it, when adding in backstage you only get about 48 acres of usable area, that isn't much, DCA is 72 for example. Basically a Pandora or GE takes up 1/3 of that available space, so you get about 3 modern WDI lands in this 3rd gate.

And you don't think they can get the same 17-20 attractions using the entire west side as expansion? Also you'd be ok with no further expansion of that 3rd gate in the future, as it would be locked.

I think you might be shortchanging with the 48 acres. I think they ll find the room or find a way to use at least 60 acres for the park. They've shown that they're willing to get creative with backstage space. I don't think it would be a bunch of c/d tickets. It would be more likely to be 3-4 E tickets, 3-4 flat rides and 3-4 C/D tickets. Even If the ride count has to be closer to 10 than 12. You cant open the park without at least a solid 3 E tickets.

 

[Disney Irish]

Sure I love a curved bridge myself. It's just an awkward needle to thread now unless the Hotel is affected or the new Fence is affected, which as I said, is totally still possible.

If the bridge is at park grade (and the street lowers) there are a bunch of parameters with the hotel entries on either side, the distance from the intersection with Katella to get down 18 feet or so, interesting obstacles all around.
View attachment 909937

Well given that we know that the EGW bridge for example is not going to start at grade and Harbor isn't going to be lowered I don't think we can expect DL Dr to be lowered either. So I don't see a reason why it can't be curved sort of like you show.

Also unless something changed, the land under Pixar Pier is not part of the DRSP it was part of the ARSP, so who knows how that affects things. There were rumors that is the reason why they rethemed it instead of just knocking it down and rebuilding it. So it may not be possible to actually know it down. Its also probably why all the concept art for DLForward always had it as part of it.

 

[mickEblu]

And you don't think they can get the same 17-20 attractions using the entire west side as expansion? Also you'd be ok with no further expansion of that 3rd gate in the future, as it would be locked.

17- 20 no. Maybe 10 or so when you envision the kind of lands they build these days.

I mean you're going to run out of land at some point. But this would happen over a long period of time.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think you might be shortchanging with the 48 acres. I think they ll find the room or find a way to use at least 60 acres for the park. They've shown that they're willing to get creative with backstage space. I don't think it would be a bunch of c/d tickets. It would be more likely to be 3-4 E tickets, 3-4 flat rides and 3-4 C/D tickets. Even If the ride count has to be closer to 10 than 12. You cant open the park without at least a solid 3 E tickets.

I've always been told that 1/3 has to be saved for backstage since its so far away from the rest of the Resort. So at ~72 acres that leaves about 48-49 acres.

If we figure that each land will be about the size of Pandora or GE, that is 15ish acres per land (I'm being generous, so could be 1-2 acres smaller), that is 3 lands at 45 acres. Add in the gates and other entrance stuff like shops, food, etc., and paths between the lands and that takes up the remaining 3 acres.

So 3 lands at 2 C-D Tickets and 1 E Ticket each is only 9 attractions, and that is assuming they go with 3 attractions and not 2 like they did with GE and Pandora. I'm not shortchanging it, I'm using modern WDI standards that we've all discussed here before.