MK Piston Peak and Villains Land Construction Thread

[AidenRodriguez731]

Is it for sure gone? Hard to tell for sure with the shadows.

I hope it didn’t get scrapped - it was an actual historic bridge. :-/

I'm not aware of the historic significance of this bridge?

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

The water management permit actually plans on the laydown yard in the picture being developed at some point after it has served its purpose. Without construction permits, it’s impossible to say when that will be, but the water management permit doesn’t need to “change” in order for that land to be developed.

I think its definitely clear SOMETHING is planned in this area eventually as D'Maro literally stated that there are plans in MK for whats beyond the berm, saying that by name. Now this could have been part of the original concept with Coco,Encanto,etc BUT it means that they are willing to utilize this area. If it could be used as an expansion to Villians with a 3rd attraction... that could be very nice and further flesh out the land. Its not an insignificant amount of space anyway.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I'm not aware of the historic significance of this bridge?

It came from the Florida East Coast railways. So just like the locomotives- it was authentic and historic railroad equipment.

It’s these kinds of little historic touches that used to be common at Disney. Kind of like the shadow boxes with actual artifacts at pop century. Small details that make a big difference.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

There’s also the zoning issue which I believe applies to this area, where Disney affirmed they were not seeking commercial mixed use zoning when the District assumed they had erred in not asking for that designation.

The water management permit actually plans on the laydown yard in the picture being developed at some point after it has served its purpose. Without construction permits, it’s impossible to say when that will be, but the water management permit doesn’t need to “change” in order for that land to be developed.

I may have used the word “permit” incorrectly - the water management permit is not the issue - it’s the zoning?

 

[lazyboy97o]

I may have used the word “permit” incorrectly - the water management permit is not the issue - it’s the zoning?

No, I was misremembering the zoning in that quote. The water management permit shows the railroad berm remaining and a new ditch being added along it outside the park. As of right now, they’re retaining and adding obstacles to accessing the area.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

No, I was misremembering the zoning in that quote. The water management permit shows the railroad berm remaining and a new ditch being added along it outside the park. As of right now, they’re retaining and adding obstacles to accessing the area.

Oh I see! That makes sense. In theory could the railroad end up on the other side of the ditch / canal?

 

[EeyoreFan#24]

Is it for sure gone? Hard to tell for sure with the shadows.

I hope it didn’t get scrapped - it was an actual historic bridge. :-/

There’s other angles on X and it is unfortunately gone.

 

[Fox&Hound]

Anyone else feel like the land inside the train tracks is not that spacious , especially if half of it is being used for cars? Really wish villains had more land, maybe even going beyond the berm/tracks.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

Anyone else feel like the land inside the train tracks is not that spacious , especially if half of it is being used for cars? Really wish villains had more land, maybe even going beyond the berm/tracks.

Agreed. My feeling looking at these pictures was "Wow, this isn't going to be that expansive of a land."

 

[EricsBiscuit]

There’s other angles on X and it is unfortunately gone.

I wonder if this is just temporary or now that the RoA is gone they just don’t need it and are removing it. It would be a shame if the removal is permanent.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The water management permit actually plans on the laydown yard in the picture being developed at some point after it has served its purpose. Without construction permits, it’s impossible to say when that will be, but the water management permit doesn’t need to “change” in order for that land to be developed.

I may have used the word “permit” incorrectly - the water management permit is not the issue - it’s the zoning?

My memory is that the first go-round with designating lay-down yards is the District asking for changes and asking Disney something to the effect of "you're not asking for the lay-down yards to also be for entertainment?" ['Entertainment' includes parks.]

And Disney's response was, "Nope, just for lay-down yards."

So, the Piston Villains area is all within the berm.

Of course, at a later date, Disney can ask for the lay-down yards to be converted to Entertainment.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

So, the Piston Villains area is all within the berm.

Of course, at a later date, Disney can ask for the lay-down yards to be converted to Entertainment.

And that’s because of “zoning” or the water permits?

 

[Stripes]

I may have used the word “permit” incorrectly - the water management permit is not the issue - it’s the zoning?

My memory is that the first go-round with designating lay-down yards is the District asking for changes and asking Disney something to the effect of "you're not asking for the lay-down yards to also be for entertainment?" ['Entertainment' includes parks.]

And Disney's response was, "Nope, just for lay-down yards."

So, the Piston Villains area is all within the berm.

Of course, at a later date, Disney can ask for the lay-down yards to be converted to Entertainment.

The new CFTOD Comprehensive Plan conveniently rezoned the area for “mixed-use” development. Meaning Disney can develop the land for whatever they want. “Mixed-use” is basically a wild card in UNO. It’s whatever Disney would reasonably want it to be.

Disney’s own SFWMD permit application also indicates Disney accounted for two of the laydown yards being developed when they designed the new RSF.

 

[dmc493]

Agreed. My feeling looking at these pictures was "Wow, this isn't going to be that expansive of a land."

We don’t know for sure how much of it will be Villains and more importantly id prefer an area that’s compact and has a lot to see compared to the 8 lane interstate that SWGE feels like sometimes

 

[lazyboy97o]

Oh I see! That makes sense. In theory could the railroad end up on the other side of the ditch / canal?

The railroad can be rerouted. But with the existing drawings, it would require a short (in height) elevated structure that at its tallest would not even be tall enough to walk under. The bridge was at +105’ and the second water management permit has the laydown yard at +100’ (the first has it at +98.75’). That wouldn’t really make a lot of sense versus just regrading things to have the tracks at grade and the interior all be more uniform.

The second stormwater permit also has the stormwater pipes laid out with the idea of the railroad berm being a dividing line.

The water management permits allow for building pretty much anywhere but most of the time Disney has guests go under the railroad when leaving its perimeter. TRON is really a notable exception with guests going up and over (and the PeopleMover but it’s already elevated). TRON’s siting also helps as guests coming from Tomorrowland are already elevated relative to the tracks. While other parks have done it, I really don’t think Disney would ever have guests crossing at grade. It’s really a bit odd how these drawings are sort of just leaving the railroad as an obnoxious obstacle. Too low to just go under but mostly slightly elevated so as to increase the height required to go over.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

It’s really a bit odd how these drawings are sort of just leaving the railroad as an obnoxious obstacle.

Is it possible that they just didn’t move the railroad in those drawings cause they don’t know yet? Or would that make 0 sense?

 

[EricsBiscuit]

Strange how it doesn’t seem like they’re preparing the new WDWRR path here for future expansion. They’re so short sighted.

 

[DrStarlander]

This is generally a result of the pay structure and requirements to do the work. Disney is different. Major projects are not design-bid-build so there isn’t a need to meet a pre-established fixed cost.

Interesting. I've found that contractors tend to want to move swiftly and get done regardless whether a project was fixed bid or time and materials. I think this is because the trailing, change-orders and scope creep phase is unpredictable and less dense in billable work so it doesn't yield as much as the period of initial work.

As an analogy, I think of a restaurant being T&M, where a family can linger after the meal, and order coffee and dessert...so indeed there's incremental scope and money to be made. But it's actually better to get them out and get a new family seated (turn the table) as the yield is higher and more money will be made by the end of the night. This assumes there's a lobby of waiting families (i.e., a healthy construction market, other projects to move on to) and that's certainly not always true.

While other parks have done it, I really don’t think Disney would ever have guests crossing at grade. It’s really a bit odd how these drawings are sort of just leaving the railroad as an obnoxious obstacle. Too low to just go under but slightly elevated so as to increase the height required to go over.

That was one of the "Disney would never do this!" things I encountered at Europa Park, which I loved. This train comes along, at grade, and intersects the walkways at various places. Guests stand there and allow the train to pass before walking on. There's an immersive quality to that -- you have to have awareness and be an active part of the space (i.e., not walking along staring at your phone) -- and there's a social quality (patience, politeness) it displays which is endearing and reassuring.

Maybe they can have a walkway with a slope down, and slope up, like at Toontown at Disneyland?

 

[ChewbaccaYourMum]

Am I crazy looking at this photo, or is the river already levelled with dirt to the rest of FL?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Is it possible that they just didn’t move the railroad in those drawings cause they don’t know yet? Or would that make 0 sense?

Definitely possible. Go back and look at the Ratatouille permits. Originally it was just the ride and restrooms where the crêperie is now located. They decided to add the crêperie and changed the water management plan for the area.