Epic Universe is the lowest rated theme park in Orlando

[marni1971]

What's the issue with all the complaints regarding no shade from sun?

Their APs are too small to stand under.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Thankfully, Universal has made the call to open each park an hour earlier Christmas week. Looking forward to Epic at 8 am. Should hopefully help with early day crowds.

 

[DonniePeverley]

Thankfully, Universal has made the call to open each park an hour earlier Christmas week. Looking forward to Epic at 8 am. Should hopefully help with early day crowds.

Why is it opening at 10am anyways? That's ridiculous. Having seen visitors over in Japan and China queuing up from 7am, to have an opening time for a new park here at 10am is pathetic (even with early admission).

Furthermore why not let the park stay open till midnight, as often the Magic Kingdom does during busy periods.

If they are seriously looking to address the appalling reviews this would be a start to solve the crowing issue - you could then have guest visits spread out throughout the day with some coming later in the evening.

I assume a contrained opening time saves wages and operating costs, but then this is at the expense of bad PR / word of mouth which is vital for the long term health of attractions.

 

[JoeCamel]

Why is it opening at 10am anyways? That's ridiculous. Having seen visitors over in Japan and China queuing up from 7am, to have an opening time for a new park here at 10am is pathetic (even with early admission).

Furthermore why not let the park stay open till midnight, as often the Magic Kingdom does during busy periods.

If they are seriously looking to address the appalling reviews this would be a start to solve the crowing issue - you could then have guest visits spread out throughout the day with some coming later in the evening.

I assume a contrained opening time saves wages and operating costs, but then this is at the expense of bad PR / word of mouth which is vital for the long term health of attractions.

Snap your fingers Donnie and produce trained people to achieve your dreams. You can do it, I know you can

 

[DonniePeverley]

Snap your fingers Donnie and produce trained people to achieve your dreams. You can do it, I know you can

Is this not a forum to share, discuss views? Or do you just want everything to align with your thinking and be quiet. Fair enough if you disagree with my views.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Why is it opening at 10am anyways? That's ridiculous. Having seen visitors over in Japan and China queuing up from 7am, to have an opening time for a new park here at 10am is pathetic (even with early admission).

I agree that longer operating hours would be best, and in general UOR closes their parks too early (USF and IOA should really never close before 8:00) but they chose 10:00 AM to give guests more time to see the park at night because Epic is significantly better at night.

 

[mergatroid]

When you consider how many extra people Universal manage to employ for the Halloween Horror Nights season, it kind of makes me think that if they really wanted to open earlier they could indeed find these folks from somewhere to do it.

I'm fully aware that during HHN they lose quite a few mid season due to people discovering that having a day job/life is disrupted severely by taking an evening job that has you up to the early hours in the morning and so keep a lot of recruits in reserve. I also appreciate that it's a separately priced event bringing millions of dollars in which helps pay for those extra hours. However it does kind of prove that there are 'extra folk' willing to work in a theme park or even do extra hours in a theme park if you pay them to, so I'm pretty sure that if Epic wanted to increase their hours even further that they really could.

 

[Keladry84]

When you consider how many extra people Universal manage to employ for the Halloween Horror Nights season, it kind of makes me think that if they really wanted to open earlier they could indeed find these folks from somewhere to do it.

I'm fully aware that during HHN they lose quite a few mid season due to people discovering that having a day job/life is disrupted severely by taking an evening job that has you up to the early hours in the morning and so keep a lot of recruits in reserve. I also appreciate that it's a separately priced event bringing millions of dollars in which helps pay for those extra hours. However it does kind of prove that there are 'extra folk' willing to work in a theme park or even do extra hours in a theme park if you pay them to, so I'm pretty sure that if Epic wanted to increase their hours even further that they really could.

How many of those though are there for the appeal of being a scare actor, or for working in a park transformed by HHN at night? The environment and in some cases job is quite different than a standard theme park shift and provides a different kind of incentive to apply for the job.

 

[mergatroid]

How many of those though are there for the appeal of being a scare actor, or for working in a park transformed by HHN at night? The environment and in some cases job is quite different than a standard theme park shift and provides a different kind of incentive to apply for the job.

True but how many are scare actors? There's ticket sellers, people on the gate, security, merch sellers, food and beverage sellers, attraction operators, maintenance workers, car park attendants and a multitude of other positions? Epic is the newest park in Orlando so surely there's an appeal to work at this park also, especially if there's perks such as free entry and discounts on purchases etc.

Surely before building Epic research was done as to how many staff are required and what sort of demand there is to work there? If the demand isn't there then you may have to offer better wages or more incentives but the research would definitely have been done. I just find it hard to believe that we've suddenly got to a point in Orlando when one more theme park is one too many to staff a few extra hours a day and that this wasn't thought about before it was built. With all the talk about expansion of Epic just around the corner doesn't that strike you as an odd decision to make if staffing the current size of the park to the hours they want is difficult to manage? How will they manage to operate following the expansion with all the new attractions, shops and restaurants with staff required to operate them?

Ultimately this reason that there's not enough people currently willing or able to work at Epic to cover a few more hours a day seems a bit of a stretch and when they do expand, how are they going to cope if this is currently an issue? They can't offer more money for new hires to work in the expansion area and not increase the wages of those in the existing area. This is something that they must have addressed and thought about so the talk about not being able to find people to work at Epic if they need them seems a bit of a myth or Universal are going to be in serious trouble following any expansion or extra events that they're planning on holding if extra staff if an impossibility surely?

 

[DonniePeverley]

I agree that longer operating hours would be best, and in general UOR closes their parks too early (USF and IOA should really never close before 8:00) but they chose 10:00 AM to give guests more time to see the park at night because Epic is significantly better at night.

What's stopping them (during the first year at least to cope with crowding levels) to put the time up to midnight? Magic Kingdom often up till midnight during peak periods.

As i said, we know the answer - but i believe it's a failed model to do it that when you then factor in the negative experiences and word of mouth visitors share.

 

[mergatroid]

What's stopping them (during the first year at least to cope with crowding levels) to put the time up to midnight? Magic Kingdom often up till midnight during peak periods.

As i said, we know the answer - but i believe it's a failed model to do it that when you then factor in the negative experiences and word of mouth visitors share.

I mean in fairness I'm sure they're making plenty of money from Epic right now and it's popular with people going. Like yourself I do think whilst it may cost more in the short term, but having longer hours in the day would certainly help address the complaints about not having time to do everything within the time it's open. At the very least it would appear better value for money as I know Disney gets a lot of criticism on here when they have less hours available and their hours reduce. This would lead one to believe that visitors do prefer the longer hours that parks offer and they probably end up spending more money the longer they're there.

Again if the reason that they're not open longer is there's not enough people willing to work there or it takes too long to train people to operate the attractions, they're going to really struggle with the expansion as that will surely exasperate the issue people are using as an excuse for the current situation if it's in fact true.

 

[tommyhawkins]

Surely before building Epic research was done as to how many staff are required and what sort of demand there is to work there?

Yes 10,000 additional workers + 7500 non universal works

If the demand isn't there then you may have to offer better wages or more incentives but the research would definitely have been done. I just find it hard to believe that we've suddenly got to a point in Orlando when one more theme park is one too many to staff a few extra hours a day and that this wasn't thought about before it was built. With all the talk about expansion of Epic just around the corner doesn't that strike you as an odd decision to make if staffing the current size of the park to the hours they want is difficult to manage? How will they manage to operate following the expansion with all the new attractions, shops and restaurants with staff required to operate them?

This isnt something that happens overnight, and seemingly from this thread you've all acknowledged its a lot easier to employ part timers for ~46 nights a year than staff an entire theme park 13 hours a day 365 days a year.

It's not as straight forward as a pure labour/wages issue. Orlando has a shortage of homes. Universal knew this thats why they donated land for Catchlight Crossing phase 1 of that should be done by the end of next year.

Ultimately this reason that there's not enough people currently willing or able to work at Epic to cover a few more hours a day seems a bit of a stretch and when they do expand, how are they going to cope if this is currently an issue? They can't offer more money for new hires to work in the expansion area and not increase the wages of those in the existing area. This is something that they must have addressed and thought about so the talk about not being able to find people to work at Epic if they need them seems a bit of a myth or Universal are going to be in serious trouble following any expansion or extra events that they're planning on holding if extra staff if an impossibility surely?

Any expansion work starting now is a problem for a Park that is 2-3 years old and staffed a lot closer to 10K with ride capacity maximised. Despite what some people think, theyre not about to drop $2.5bn on a 21 acre wicked land. it will be one or two attractions in phase 2

ive gone into detailed reasons here https://tommythemed.substack.com/p/epic-universe-is-struggling-with?r=jp1o

 

[mergatroid]

Yes 10,000 additional workers + 7500 non universal works


This isnt something that happens overnight, and seemingly from this thread you've all acknowledged its a lot easier to employ part timers for ~46 nights a year than staff an entire theme park 13 hours a day 365 days a year.

It's not as straight forward as a pure labour/wages issue. Orlando has a shortage of homes. Universal knew this thats why they donated land for Catchlight Crossing phase 1 of that should be done by the end of next year.

Any expansion work starting now is a problem for a Park that is 2-3 years old and staffed a lot closer to 10K with ride capacity maximised. Despite what some people think, theyre not about to drop $2.5bn on a 21 acre wicked land. it will be one or two attractions in phase 2

ive gone into detailed reasons here https://tommythemed.substack.com/p/epic-universe-is-struggling-with?r=jp1o

I think the comparison to HHN is reasonably fair as they're seemingly managing to staff Epic right now. So they're either looking at increasing the FT casts hours for those that want them, or hire more PT cast for evening hours. Disney seem to manage the extra hours so it's obviously possible even if it takes quite an effort to do so. I'm not coming at this from a Disney vs Universal standpoint, hence why I used the example of HHN. I'm aware it's equivalent of a 10 week event for many (rehearsals included) but I really think that the point stands that with a bit of a will to do it, that they could find the people to open the park for longer.

If not then they've got a problem on their hands with the expansion as we're still talking about MORE team members required be that a small number or not and yet that's the argument being used right now for the shorter current hours.

You may be right and I might be talking nonsense, I'm just looking at it from a logical perspective of when they want to open the other parks for longer hours in Orlando they seem to manage. I never join the threads about Disney reducing hours or having attractions open later than the park opens to defend Disney, because logic would dictate that it's Disney's way of saving money at the visitor's expense. So I have to look at this from a similar viewpoint, it would appear to me on a basic level that Universal are doing similar and don't want to spend the extra money rather than there suddenly being an issue with not enough people wanting to work for the newest, most ground breaking park in Orlando.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Speaking of labor shortages, was it ever actually true that they were firing dozens of Team Members during the initial previews of Epic Universe for leaking images, videos, trip reports, etc. of the park? They gave up any pretence that would happen after a while, however it always seemed insane to me they would be firing people at a time they needed to be hiring in a tight labor market. People insisted on here, though, that lots of people had been let go because they did not maintain the secrecy Universal was hoping for.

I am just curious to know whether that ever happened or whether it was all more or less a smokescreen to try and frighten people into not revealing anything.

 

[mergatroid]

For those more familiar with the topic, is there a sort of snobbery or hierarchy amongst people taking jobs working in theme parks compared to working in theme park hotels? Do people view hotel theme park staff as being a grade above those who work in the actual theme parks, is one easier to recruit for than the other?

I know it gets hot in Orlando (and wet) but is say working in catering in a theme park hotel seen somewhat better than working a catering role in a park itself?

It would seem that Universal are capable of opening and staffing hotels but are struggling to staff the parks enough to extend hours so I'm assuming that people see the hotels as something they're happier working in if that's the case?

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I'm too lazy to go digging through that long discussion thread, but weren't many of those rumors started by a notorious hothead around here who had a beef with Uni about being let go a few months before all that started?

I think it mostly came from poster/s sympathetic to Universal. Looking back to the post, the suggestion was that it was in fact dozens to 100+ a day who were being fired.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

All I remember is it started from someone who was let go by Uni (a construction team working on EU?) who had a grudge. Then when prevews began he started the mass firings rumor over leaked imagery.
Like you said, it just seemed off considering the labor pool and what Uni needed to staff this brand new park.

I'm thinking it was a banned member (JusticeDisney) because of the long running inside joke for some current staff in O-Town, "Look at me, my wife is a lawyer" gag.

Hmm, I suggest looking it up as that wasn't the poster I was thinking about.

 

[tommyhawkins]

I think the comparison to HHN is reasonably fair as they're seemingly managing to staff Epic right now. So they're either looking at increasing the FT casts hours for those that want them, or hire more PT cast for evening hours. Disney seem to manage the extra hours so it's obviously possible even if it takes quite an effort to do so. I'm not coming at this from a Disney vs Universal standpoint, hence why I used the example of HHN. I'm aware it's equivalent of a 10 week event for many (rehearsals included) but I really think that the point stands that with a bit of a will to do it, that they could find the people to open the park for longer.

If not then they've got a problem on their hands with the expansion as we're still talking about MORE team members required be that a small number or not and yet that's the argument being used right now for the shorter current hours.

You may be right and I might be talking nonsense, I'm just looking at it from a logical perspective of when they want to open the other parks for longer hours in Orlando they seem to manage. I never join the threads about Disney reducing hours or having attractions open later than the park opens to defend Disney, because logic would dictate that it's Disney's way of saving money at the visitor's expense. So I have to look at this from a similar viewpoint, it would appear to me on a basic level that Universal are doing similar and don't want to spend the extra money rather than there suddenly being an issue with not enough people wanting to work for the newest, most ground breaking park in Orlando.

I talk about a lot of the problems facing Universal at the moment in the article I am also aware of other things I didn't write about.
As backwards as it might sound right now, I personally see extending the park's hours beyond 13 hours as detrimental to the overall experience of the day guests.

If the park closes at 10, what time are they seeing last guests walk off the ride?

Maintenance then would have from the time they can lock out the rides until whatever time the cut off is in the morning opening to do whatever they need to do.

There's a laundry list of things they need to perform SM on in the park at the moment not least of which work on RVs if they don't get that done those are either out next day or operating with less capacity - one of the main causes being repeated is lack of RVs in rotation. I would view getting as much maintenance done as possible to reduce downtime and increase hourly ride capacity more important than extending park hours - especially when you will not see a uniform amount of guests staying later as you do at 10am. It's just creating an after hours party effect where a minority have a great time, but may impact the majority the next day

 

[mergatroid]

I talk about a lot of the problems facing Universal at the moment in the article I am also aware of other things I didn't write about.
As backwards as it might sound right now, I personally see extending the park's hours beyond 13 hours as detrimental to the overall experience of the day guests.

If the park closes at 10, what time are they seeing last guests walk off the ride?

Maintenance then would have from the time they can lock out the rides until whatever time the cut off is in the morning opening to do whatever they need to do.

There's a laundry list of things they need to perform SM on in the park at the moment not least of which work on RVs if they don't get that done those are either out next day or operating with less capacity - one of the main causes being repeated is lack of RVs in rotation. I would view getting as much maintenance done as possible to reduce downtime and increase hourly ride capacity more important than extending park hours - especially when you will not see a uniform amount of guests staying later as you do at 10am. It's just creating an after hours party effect where a minority have a great time, but may impact the majority the next day

An interesting perspective which I'd honestly not considered. However again I would argue that's something that they should have thought about ahead of time. Disney World has been operating through till midnight for many summer years including 50 years ago when I was a child and yet they had enough RV's in rotation or employed enough maintenance workers to have them ready for 8am the following morning. It's not seemingly a new issue or something that wouldn't have been thought about ahead of opening Epic. I guess if that's the reason then it's very bad management as these are the sort of things that should be planned ahead of time and after all the billions of dollars spent opening this incredible park it certainly shouldn't have been an after thought.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

The labor pool was a lot deeper before the pandemic, when Universal did their initial labor analysis. Many laid off/furloughed TMs/CMs went home somewhere up north and never returned.

Universal never hit their hiring goals before the park opened. Loews did because staffing 3 smaller hotels is a lot easier than staffing a full blown theme park. And Loews staggered the openings. People questioned why would they open Stella Nova 5 months before Epic opened, Terra Luna 3 months. Labor and training is the answer.

Now Universal is at the really shallow end of the labor pool. Many can't pass the background check/drug screen. Usually Universal would back fill the positions with J-1s. That's short for the "J-1 Visa Program", which is an international work exchange program. Mostly from South America, many from Venezuela. Not many people applying for J-1 Visas now.