Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
...I'm curious. What did Iger say about Pirates of the Caribbean?
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EPCOT Figment, well, to be replaced by Figment
- Thread starter Walrus from Paris
- Start date
Cmdr_Crimson
Well-Known Member
FigmentsBrightIdeas
Well-Known Member
Yeah.. uhh.. how is the brilliant execution not good storytelling? And sure, granted, you could say, it’s because it’s not a ‘linear’ story. But dude, how can you say that’s your favorite ride, pride yourself in learning about the history of Walt, etc.. and then say that? It comes off as a backhanded criticism. The original imagineers behind the ride (like Marc Davis & Claude Coats for instance) said the whole concept was about really creating mood, environments, atmosphere, and interesting characters. Like a vignette of various scenes rather than any point A to point B story. It’s described as like being part of a cocktail party, watching & listening in on everything going on around you. It was never about telling a story (in the linear sense) in that attraction originally.
Granted, we know they tried adding more linear story elements to it in ‘06 by changing the dialogue to constantly bring up “where’s/bring me Captain Jack Sparrow” throughout.. ironically, but yeah. Lol! Personally, I don’t mind Captain Jack Sparrow being added to it, myself. After all, apparently he was based on a pirate seen in original concept art (don’t have that saved on me right now, but I’m sure one of you could find it). That and they didn’t change the core of the ride, ever. Admittedly, I can say, a more tasteful enhancement or upgrade they should’ve (and could now or in the future) do is remove that dialogue, restore it back to the original dialogue, but keep Jack’s (IMO, pretty tasteful otherwise) appearances in the attraction, without it coming at the expense of any elements of the original concept.
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FigmentsBrightIdeas
Well-Known Member
Not to get too off-topic here btw, coming back to Journey Into Imagination. That’s another issue with the most recent (02) redo. Instead of being a collection of whimsically executed vignettes of environments full of abstract concepts & ideas brought to life that go along with the concepts & creative mediums brought up & introduced in the opening scene, it’s been replaced with a linear story that has to stop the ride cars in every scene to watch something happen, when it was far more engaging having the constantly moving ride that had tons of details and things you were taking in, through each show room, to (Who would’ve guessed) inspire your (and Figment’s) creativity, Dreamfinder guiding us through it all)
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FigmentsBrightIdeas
Well-Known Member
Gotta say, not quite sure how Figment “turning things purple” is present in the current story or how color plays such a big part of this.… and I sure don’t see any instances of it other than basically he, himself appearing in each scene. Was it a bigger part in earlier concepts? Not quite sure.
And Kathy’s comment in regards to “linear story being really hard with a long train of cars”. So uh.. why do it then? Why not keep it the pretty much non-linear experience it was originally? Also, “guests in the front car are not gonna see the same things in the back car?” What? You mean the cars that are ‘pointed directly towards’.. A single Figment animatronic on a phone in a dark room full of nothing? An eye chart, a slot machine? Wish someone could explain that logic to me.
And btw, this is certainly interesting
Source: https://www.epcotlegacy.com/imagination/history/retrospective4
I own one of these promo t-shirts mentioned actually, and I’ve also read the newspaper article before mentioning what was supposed to be a large marketing campaign for Figment on tv, merch, etc.… and like I said, there’s that kicker. On the back of the shirt, it features lyrics from.. you guessed it, the ‘original’ version of the attraction sung by Dreamfinder, which (surprise, surprise) is never spoken or heard anywhere in said “return”. (Why? Again, I dunno
) And the funny part is, the newly written song lyrics for the redo were never featured on any of said merchandise either. So yeah, that makes this whole situation even funnier IMO
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FigmentsBrightIdeas
Well-Known Member
And truly, it’s quite an anamoly to me, cause keep in mind, Kathy Mangum was the show producer on the WDW version of Splash Mountain and we also know Tony Baxter of course was involved with that attraction’s creation too. So how did we go from that… to ‘that’ 
Like, WOAH!! Talk about a drastic (and I mean ‘drastic’) change. Granted, Tony wasn’t involved at all with either the ‘99 or ‘02 redos of the pavilion. But still
And say what you will about budget, but.. look at the early Fantasyland rides and even the 80s revamps of them (along with the new (at the time) Pinocchio’s Daring Journey) at DL. You can’t possibly tell me budget was the biggest factor here regarding (obviously deliberate) creative choices made, in regards to set design & scenic action. Something had to have gone wrong.. cause, I honestly can’t fathom how we went from that to that. On top of it, the Blast finale scene clearly shows, with the right creative choices, they could’ve made something far more decent (and dare I say, Imaginative) like the original ride but it seems they just.. didn’t. So it’s just.. very bizarre to me.
Like, WOAH!! Talk about a drastic (and I mean ‘drastic’) change. Granted, Tony wasn’t involved at all with either the ‘99 or ‘02 redos of the pavilion. But still
And say what you will about budget, but.. look at the early Fantasyland rides and even the 80s revamps of them (along with the new (at the time) Pinocchio’s Daring Journey) at DL. You can’t possibly tell me budget was the biggest factor here regarding (obviously deliberate) creative choices made, in regards to set design & scenic action. Something had to have gone wrong.. cause, I honestly can’t fathom how we went from that to that. On top of it, the Blast finale scene clearly shows, with the right creative choices, they could’ve made something far more decent (and dare I say, Imaginative) like the original ride but it seems they just.. didn’t. So it’s just.. very bizarre to me.
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FigmentsBrightIdeas
Well-Known Member
And it’s funny, you think, with the choice to finally greenlight a “Figment Return”, knowing, full-well how successful Figment was and how big of marketing he had back when the park & original ride opened initially. It’s pretty nuts how that happened (little to no marketing campaign for his return), despite it being one of the safest investment bets they could’ve made, And I get.. timing wasn’t right (9/11/01 attack/drop in visitation & economy), but it sure didn’t seem like they did much, even after that, other than basically push more merch, pins, etc.. wouldn’t he have practically helped save the company during that slump? Like sure, in ‘05 we got the Figment’s Place meet n greet, placed in the old Magic Eye Theatre exit building (now currently storage space I believe??) which weirdly lasted only a few years. But that was it… nothing else. Wild stuff.. :
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jah4955
Well-Known Member
I wasn't joking...it was around the time of Space construction, from I recall a reputable source...where I can't remember (maybe Widen Your World?...apologies to Mike Lee if not). The word i remember from a quarter century ago was "supposedly."
FigmentsBrightIdeas
Well-Known Member
Wow… just.. wow, if true.
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HMF
Well-Known Member
I have never heard that before. I know he famously chewed out the creative leads on JIYI after riding it for the first time in 1999. That would have been fun to witness.Supposedly Horizons was Eisner's favorite ride...but that didn't stop him
HMF
Well-Known Member
I have been saying this since 2006. Though to be fair the current storyline is actually FAR more plausible now than it was then.
jah4955
Well-Known Member
Although I still can't remember the source, I remember it being generally-accepted as plausible.Supposedly Horizons was Eisner's favorite ride...but that didn't stop him
Not for this reason, but this reminded me of a parallel: One of Walt's favorite opening attractions were the stagecoaches. But because they kept falling over
, were low capacity, and disproportionally high maintenance in relation to capacity, he reluctantly agreed that they needed to come to an end. Neither Horizons nor Imagination 1.0 had those problems.
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
Say, is there any truth to the claim that Figment appeared in House of Mouse? I don't recall him appearing in any of the episodes I've seen.
Cmdr_Crimson
Well-Known Member
Nope there was never any episode he had an appearance...
jah4955
Well-Known Member
the show never "did anything" for me, but I did admire how it helped keep the Fab5 more relevant at that time and crammed in soooo mannny "blink & you'll miss it" cameos.
TanagraTheater
New Member
I think the only theme park characters to appear in House of Mouse were the Hitchhiking Ghosts. It's a shame Disney can't do a similar show with only their theme park characters.
Cmdr_Crimson
Well-Known Member
They also had Iago sing a parody of "A pirates life for me" but, then again did we need to hear another song by Iago get ruined...
FigmentsBrightIdeas
Well-Known Member
Too bad too, cause that would’ve been awesome to have both Dreamfinder & Figment appear in it. Fantastic show, one of my favorites. But alas, they refuse to put it on Disney + for some reason.. ‘and’ they didn’t even put it in any significant manner in the Mickey’s Runaway Railway queue either. Lol! They didn’t even mention it & MouseWorks in the Mickey documentary they did recently despite its significant role in Mickey’s history, Most bizarre stuff ever.. but yeah.