DAK “Zootopia” is being created for the Tree of Life theater

[WorldExplorer]

I don’t really like Better Zoogether either and think it looks kinda like a dumb waste of time but the amount of people online pretending that they haven’t spent the last almost 30 years complaining about ITTBAB’s quality and whether or not it actually fit into AK to begin with is insane.

Please present evidence of the same person saying they don't like ITtBaB and then saying it was a great show.

Bonus hard mode: Find evidence of that happening with no "well now that I see how terrible the show could've been I appreciate all the stuff the old one did right" comment being made.

 

[Biff215]

I don’t really like Better Zoogether either and think it looks kinda like a dumb waste of time but the amount of people online pretending that they haven’t spent the last almost 30 years complaining about ITTBAB’s quality and whether or not it actually fit into AK to begin with is insane.

Dislike Better Zoogether because it’s mediocre. I sure do. But lord please stop pretending that thing that was there before it was this loved piece of brilliance when the whole conversation for decades over that show was rarely ever positive.

A not very good, kind of annoying attraction that was designed to essentially be soft promo for a new film got replaced by another not very good, kind of annoying attraction that was designed to soft promo a film.

Just as it’s always been, I’ll enjoy AK while pretending there’s nothing inside the Tree of Life because really there may as well not be.

Completely disagree. I don’t think anyone is saying Bug was a classic or masterpiece, but it felt like it fit in the tree and actually provided factual information in an entertaining way. While Eisner may have required Imagineers to use the upcoming movie in an effort to build interest, the attraction was far from a commercial and you didn’t need to even see the movie to understand it.

The primary critique of Bug was how scary it was for young kids. That’s fair. It still had a great run and I’ll admit it was time for a refresh. I personally didn’t want to see Zootopia used at DAK but I accepted it because it was better than the alternative (a complete land). This could have been a great tie-in to the sequel while providing a desperately needed boost to a park under major construction for the coming years. All they had to do was improve upon what used to be there. This should have been a homerun but instead Disney whiffed.

 

[DrStarlander]

This is the weirdest part. Everything in It's Tough to Be a Bug made sense because we were watching a supposedly live show. We feel the blast from Chili's quills and the acid from Termite-ator because they are in front of us right now on stage.

Here we just...get hit by snow because snow hit the drone? Get hit by water because water hit the drone?

I know not every 4D show has presented itself that way, but I think this is the first one to have a canonical screen between you and the effects that are directly hitting you anyway.

It reminds me of Marshall McLuhan's famous quote "The medium is the message," that while we tend to focus on the content in entertainment, the medium itself -- the method, technology, interface -- is so important in influencing us and shaping our perception and whether the experience is successful.

A show about bugs in a 4D theater is a pretty great content/medium combo! It worked too well for some people, even.

Putting Zootopia in a 4D theater is fine. There's nothing wrong with it (though the movie is an action-flick and an exhilarating ride makes more sense). But Looney Tunes or Minions or Mickey Mouse or almost any IP or characters can make as much sense as a 4D film. There's no genius in that coupling of content and medium.

They needed the diegetic screen/live broadcast because they wanted to "take us" all over Zootopia. Then they realized the sensory effects created a logical conflict with that and we get: Carrot Vision ("Carrots! Eyes! Get it?! Problem solved. Let's move on.")

That fine. We're at a theme park. We can accept some conceit.

But a problem with this show is that it's a highway pile-up of conceits: the new Tree of Life backstory, carrot vision, instantaneous travel by the main characters, a giant dirt ball thing, Gazelle not singing due to legal reasons...it's like a whiteboard meeting of solutions brought to the screen. When it takes this much work to try to make it work, it's probably a signal that it doesn't work.

 

[flynnibus]

Dislike Better Zoogether because it’s mediocre. I sure do. But lord please stop pretending that thing that was there before it was this loved piece of brilliance when the whole conversation for decades over that show was rarely ever positive.

I don't see anyone doing that here... few were upset the show was being replaced. But showing how the old show was superior in ways simply because the new show is so bad is not pretending the old show was brilliance. It's possible to be mid, and still look like a star when you're comparing to this new junk.

 

[flynnibus]

The primary critique of Bug was how scary it was for young kids. That’s fair. It still had a great run and I’ll admit it was time for a refresh

I don't think that was really it's primary issue - it's just one you see a lot because people want to warn others for the potential of a unexpected child issue. Like was covered before, if the scare was such an issue, Disney could have changed the show, but never did.

I personally just didn't find the show that fun for repeats.. the and show lacked memorable take aways that would stick in your head even if you weren't in the theatre. Like it never had a memorable song, or character, or moment, and little opportunity for discovering hidden gems. Doesn't help the film and characters are basically abandoned outside this show. So when these shows get ran for DECADES without even much of a refresh.. unless you are showing it to someone new, people don't want to keep repeating it.

Even Muppetvision or Philharmagic which each have great stuff in them.. you can only keep eating the same exact meal for so long before you get sick of it. ESPECIALLY when its just a film+effects.

 

[Biff215]

I don't think that was really it's primary issue - it's just one you see a lot because people want to warn others for the potential of a unexpected child issue. Like was covered before, if the scare was such an issue, Disney could have changed the show, but never did.

I personally just didn't find the show that fun for repeats.. the and show lacked memorable take aways that would stick in your head even if you weren't in the theatre. Like it never had a memorable song, or character, or moment, and little opportunity for discovering hidden gems. Doesn't help the film and characters are basically abandoned outside this show. So when these shows get ran for DECADES without even much of a refresh.. unless you are showing it to someone new, people don't want to keep repeating it.

Even Muppetvision or Philharmagic which each have great stuff in them.. you can only keep eating the same exact meal for so long before you get sick of it. ESPECIALLY when its just a film+effects.

Agree to disagree here. There were memorable moments, especially those that did scare the heck out of a lot of kids (and hence why Disney didn’t remove them, they were essential parts of the show). I can also very easily remember the song “we’re pollinators…” so that stuck with some of us as well.

With all that said I admitted it was time for a change. All they had to do was come up with something as fitting and entertaining. In my opinion it’s not even close.

 

[Brer Panther]

The closest "modern" equivalent would be Shrek 4D, where it's just a short, played in a theater with effects happening that you shouldn't logically be experiencing.

I've never been to Universal Studios, so I never saw Shrek 4D in the theater (I watched the DVD), but didn't that at least have the excuse that what was going on wasn't just filmed footage in-universe? I dunno...

Dislike Better Zoogether because it’s mediocre. I sure do. But lord please stop pretending that thing that was there before it was this loved piece of brilliance when the whole conversation for decades over that show was rarely ever positive.

A not very good, kind of annoying attraction that was designed to essentially be soft promo for a new film got replaced by another not very good, kind of annoying attraction that was designed to soft promo a film.

Just as it’s always been, I’ll enjoy AK while pretending there’s nothing inside the Tree of Life because really there may as well not be.

This is basically how I feel too. I'm in the minority of folks that didn't like It's Tough to Be a Bug and really just dislike Better Zoogether because it's mediocre. However, this thread has pointed out that Tough to Be a Bug had more effort put into it than this.

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

I've never been to Universal Studios, so I never saw Shrek 4D in the theater (I watched the DVD), but didn't that at least have the excuse that what was going on wasn't just filmed footage in-universe? I dunno...

This is basically how I feel too. I'm in the minority of folks that didn't like It's Tough to Be a Bug and really just dislike Better Zoogether because it's mediocre. However, this thread has pointed out that Tough to Be a Bug had more effort put into it than this.

So, Shrek 4D was an in-Betweener short for Shrek 1&2 since they were going to their honeymoon at the end of the end of first film...

For the other short Besides the 2 reptiles that are in the finale for a brief second they did mention Clawhauser is supposed to be wearing the Gazelle shirt he's wearing in the attraction also in the film.....Not sure many will get the reference but, that's their odd tie-in to it..

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

I don't mind attractions that skew young or adult in core appeal, say Disney Junior Dance Party or something for small kids. But my point was specifically about how to use the centerpiece of the park. That attraction should be all ages.


Yes, the entire show should be better and different. If you scroll up I mention a couple of entirely different shows that could have been better, unrelated to Zootopia. My note was that if they're going to do a show based on a modern IP in which dumb gag jokes are required as they are core to the IP and, say, 20% of the adults in the room are thinking "this is dumb" while watching, because it is, there's an opportunity to inoculate against criticism and connect with these viewers and bring them onboard, in a quick moment.

Comedians do this all the time. They may be running with a bit that the entire audience is not along with, and they break from the bit, to essentially ask those people to come on board (comedians may laugh at themselves for how out-there they've gone, acknowledging the joke is hokey or lame, that they've repeated the joke too many times in the show already...) and by being self-aware and acknowledging the "issue" they continue with more of the audience along.

Jim Gaffigan, for example, even has a different external voice he uses to comment on his own show while doing it and say out loud the critical things the audience may be thinking, for this effect.

It's when in comedy the performance behaves like it thinks it's funny, like it's absolutely confident that the humor is great and that YOU the audience should find this funny (and the humor is base-level, dumb), that a portion of the audience gets resentful, gets kind of insulted and irritated. That's the case with this show.

Given that unlike the Zootopia movie, this show already has a diegetic audience, Nick could have used that. Literally, a few seconds here and there in the film is all that's needed. Would it have made the show great? No. But it could have dramatically cut down on the amount of resentment in the audience at no cost otherwise.

But, yes, an entirely different show that doesn't suck would be much better.

Tower of Terror is currently DHS's "icon", Cinderellas Castle is an expensive dining location

Epcot is fairly boring to kids ride through of human communications history.


I don't know when this icon thing was ever a rule?

 

[WondersOfLife]

I think the general consensus was that it was time for Bugs to go, in a similar sense that it was time for Splash to go... It was time for Great Movie Ride to go... It was time for Dinoland to go... It was time for Honey I Shrunk the Audience/EO Tribute to go...

......but....

The general consensus is ALSO on a standing point that if the replacing atrraction doesnt A). Fit the theme park it is being shoved into, B). Does not live up to or is better than the hype of the previous attraction, or C). Is WORSE than the previous attraction.....


.....then it was NOT time for the previous attraction to close yet.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I think the general consensus was was that it was time for Bugs to go, in a similar sense that it was time for Splash to go... It was time for Great Movie Ride to go... It was time for Dinoland to go... It was time for Honey I Shrunk the Audience/EO Tribute to go...

......but....

The general consensus is ALSO on a standing point that if the replacing atrraction doesnt A). Fit the theme park it is being shoved into, B). Does not live up to or is better than the hype of the previous attraction, or C). Is WORSE than the previous attraction.....


.....then it was NOT time for the previous attraction to close yet.

The general consensus can be so stupid at times

 

[Trauma]

Tower of Terror is currently DHS's "icon", Cinderellas Castle is an expensive dining location

Epcot is fairly boring to kids ride through of human communications history.


I don't know when this icon thing was ever a rule?

So we are just going to dismiss away Spaceship Earth as a fairly boring ride ?

You know that rides can connect with people on a deep level without having to be thrilling.

I can get my thrills for much cheaper at my local Six Flags.

I go to Disney for experiences I can get nowhere else.

Experiences like Spaceship Earth.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

So we are just going to dismiss away Spaceship Earth as a fairly boring ride ?

You know that rides can connect with people on a deep level without having to be thrilling.

I can get my thrills for much cheaper at my local Six Flags.

I go to Disney for experiences I can get nowhere else.

Experiences like Spaceship Earth.

For a kid, yes. Source: I have two brothers, they hated the ride and thought it went on way too long.

For clarification, they loved about every other dark ride, it was specifically Spaceship Earth that they didn't like because it was a slow moving history ride for like 16 minutes with a fairly poor ending to be fair.

 

[Trauma]

For a kid, yes. Source: I have two brothers, they hated the ride and thought it went on way too long.

For clarification, they loved about every other dark ride, it was specifically Spaceship Earth that they didn't like because it was a slow moving history ride for like 16 minutes with a fairly poor ending to be fair.

Well then I guess it’s time to gut Spaceship Earth and shove in some IP.

Need a ride system that appeals to the new generation who thinks YouTube shorts are too long.

I’m sure the Imagineers will come up with something great!

They always do.

 

[MrPromey]

Well then I guess it’s time to gut Spaceship Earth and shove in some IP.

Need a ride system that appeals to the new generation who thinks YouTube shorts are too long.

I’m sure the Imagineers will come up with something great!

They always do.

The inside of the ball will be converted to a multi-level standby queue and the actual attraction will be in the area that's now the exit. It'll be screen-based and last about two and a half minutes.

 

[DrStarlander]

Tower of Terror is currently DHS's "icon", Cinderellas Castle is an expensive dining location

Epcot is fairly boring to kids ride through of human communications history.


I don't know when this icon thing was ever a rule?

ToT is not the central thematic icon on DHS, the Chinese Theater is. The Chinese Theater is the weenie at the end of the park's version of Main Street, it's central to the park's movie-theme, it was featured everywhere in the park's marketing (here's a poster I got before the park opened), and the attraction they put inside was a wide-ranging, all-encompassing family-friendly thesis-statement attraction to make the case that "movies" are worth celebrating. If guestst didn't buy into the premise that movies were worth celebrating, everything else in the park was of no/lesser value. Why care about backlots or stunts if movies aren't important? That's what a thesis statement attraction is for.

(ToT was built on a side-street five years after opening and happens to be the tallest attraction, and a very cool, very popular attraction, and therefore is loved and recognizable and much more usable in marketing than the park's other beige soundstages, shows, and nondescript buildings, which do not lend themselves as much to marketing. ToT is not the geographic, thematic or spiritual icon of the park, however prolific its appearances are.)

Spaceship Earth was smilier to TGMR in having the most encompassing content and acts as a thesis statement establishing that the whole park's theme/content is important and worthy of attention. This attraction conveys the story of human communication which is fundamental to all its other achievements.

The castles at Disney's castle parks have a mix of walk-throughs and other amenities, with variations and exclusive experiences in different locations, that appeal to all ages.

My point is specifically that when you have a park with an overall theme or mission, such as at DAK or Epcot or a movie studio park, and you have a central icon for the park both geographically and visually and in marketing, it is a mistake to have guests of all ages show up and find an attraction dialed in to one demographic, age level, or rider-profile.

It shouldn't be a coaster OR a show geared just for kids. It should be an attraction that conveys what the park and icon are all about. It's not just "another venue" to stuff an IP into. There's a hundred acres to do that. And, sure, maybe Spaceship Earth should have a little bit more zest, I'm not arguing against that. But it should be an attraction that kids of all ages, parents, and grandparents can all enjoy.

And sadly, Disney was once known as a company uniquely and cleverly skilled at making entertainment that spanned all ages, on screen and in the parks. That, I believe, was central to why the company has been successful and is still around 100 years later. That (along with execution quality) was the company's "secret sauce."

 

[WondersOfLife]

The general consensus can be so stupid at times

I appreciate the clarification in your signature. I can never tell on these threads lol

 

[Tom Morrow]

ToT is not the central thematic icon on DHS, the Chinese Theater is. The Chinese Theater is the weenie at the end of the park's version of Main Street, it's central to the park's movie-theme, it was featured everywhere in the park's marketing (here's a poster I got before the park opened), and the attraction they put inside was a wide-ranging, all-encompassing family-friendly thesis-statement attraction to make the case that "movies" are worth celebrating. If guestst didn't buy into the premise that movies were worth celebrating, everything else in the park was of no/lesser value. Why care about backlots or stunts if movies aren't important? That's what a thesis statement attraction is for.
View attachment 892209

(ToT was built on a side-street five years after opening and happens to be the tallest attraction, and a very cool, very popular attraction, and therefore is loved and recognizable and much more usable in marketing than the park's other beige soundstages, shows, and nondescript buildings, which do not lend themselves as much to marketing. ToT is not the geographic, thematic or spiritual icon of the park, however prolific its appearances are.)

Spaceship Earth was smilier to TGMR in having the most encompassing content and acts as a thesis statement establishing that the whole park's theme/content is important and worthy of attention. This attraction conveys the story of human communication which is fundamental to all its other achievements.

The castles at Disney's castle parks have a mix of walk-throughs and other amenities, with variations and exclusive experiences in different locations, that appeal to all ages.

My point is specifically that when you have a park with an overall theme or mission, such as at DAK or Epcot or a movie studio park, and you have a central icon for the park both geographically and visually and in marketing, it is a mistake to have guests of all ages show up and find an attraction dialed in to one demographic, age level, or rider-profile.

It shouldn't be a coaster OR a show geared just for kids. It should be an attraction that conveys what the park and icon are all about. It's not just "another venue" to stuff an IP into. There's a hundred acres to do that. And, sure, maybe Spaceship Earth should have a little bit more zest, I'm not arguing against that. But it should be an attraction that kids of all ages, parents, and grandparents can all enjoy.

And sadly, Disney was once known as a company uniquely and cleverly skilled at making entertainment that spanned all ages, on screen and in the parks. That, I believe, was central to why the company has been successful and is still around 100 years later. That (along with execution quality) was the company's "secret sauce."

Disney is, and has been since the sorcerer hat was removed 10 years ago, using Tower of Terror as the park's symbolic icon for branding. Just check the official website. The Chinese Theater is the weenie but was never the icon. Before the sorcerer hat, the icon was the Earful Tower.

I agree that Tower of Terror doesn't really make sense as the park's icon, but clearly they feel that the icon needs to be the tallest, most prominent thing in the park.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Disney is, and has been since the sorcerer hat was removed 10 years ago, using Tower of Terror as the park's symbolic icon for branding. Just check the official website. The Chinese Theater is the weenie but was never the icon. Before the sorcerer hat, the icon was the Earful Tower.

I agree that Tower of Terror doesn't really make sense as the park's icon, but clearly they feel that the icon needs to be the tallest, most prominent thing in the park.

I will take this as a good sign that ToT will not be destroyed and replaced.

Although, they used Splash mountain everywhere and Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah everywhere and that got destroyed and replaced anyway.

 

[jah4955]

Show Writing has been pretty dreadful for the last two decades.

plus