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EPCOT Figment, well, to be replaced by Figment

TanagraTheater

New Member
I wish Disney would place emphasis on some of the other Epcot characters aside from Figment, such as: Alec Tronic, Bonnie Appetit, Buzzy, and the Crane from Meet the World. Then again, they made Figment insufferable and plastered his image on a bunch of cheaply made, overpriced merchandise.

I don't see a revamp of the ride with a sponsor for the pavilion. I think Hallmark Cards would be a perfect contender, given how they've place a larger emphasis on the Disney Parks in the Gold Crown stores. Disney could have Figment and Dreamfinder interact with some of the Hallmark characters, such as Maxine and her dog, Floyd, or Hoops and Yoyo. I mean, Hallmark's main color is purple, so it's a perfect match.
 

FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
I wish Disney would place emphasis on some of the other Epcot characters aside from Figment, such as: Alec Tronic, Bonnie Appetit, Buzzy, and the Crane from Meet the World.
Def agree on that part, also they should have a larger variety of theme park original character & attraction related merch in the shops.
But, ultimately it’s a bit tricky as many of the characters and the attractions you mentioned from EPCOT have been gone from the park for a while now, unlike Figment who, despite the downgraded attraction, atleast has one operating still, . Though granted, with a larger variety of merch (possibly with fun little videos and such online to market this stuff), they could possibly use it to gauge interest in the characters & their attractions and thus see if people would be interested in more experiences & appearances of those characters (including possible meet n greets). Never say never
 
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FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
One thing I should note though, if Dreamfinder & Figment with a restored Journey Into Imagination pavilion proved to be particularly successful, that would make Disney far more open to doing more things with Parks Original Concept offerings in the future.
Forgive me for going a little off-topic here but it circles back around to Dreamfinder & Figment eventually,
Gotta say, it’d particularly be nice to see them utilize some of their Magic Kingdom characters & attractions more too, in the meantime. More merch with the Country Bears, Sonny Eclipse, Carousel of Progress, and the dog in Space Mountain for instance. I’m honestly shocked they don’t have much of anything offered for the Country Bear Jamboree & Carousel of Progress atm, as of course, they just added some new stuff to Country Bear Jamboree and have more in store for Carousel of Progress aswell. They’ve also had a John & Sarah meet n greet for a throwback night at Disneyland before (ironically, the park that no longer features the attraction but it nonetheless was popular). You could easily have them meet at MK’s Tomorrowland too from time to time.
So yeah, ultimately, things offered like that would only make the park more worthwhile to visit. On that note, maybe, just like back in the day.. if they had something like Magic Journeys playing again in the Magic Eye Theatre and the classic ImageWorks restored & upgraded in the meantime, aswell as the DVC exclusive ‘Dreamfinder & Figment’s Discovery Cafe’ put in the former Kodak/VIP lounge, and Dreamfinder & Figment meeting outdoors in the garden area and in the upper glass atrium/ImageWorks area aswell.. They could work on the ride til it’s all ready, again, just like back in ‘82. Which, theoretically, it should take a lot less time to do considering everything’s already planned out, recorded, etc.
 
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Shishagumi

Active Member
No thanks, Threshold animation studio who made that version is just...off?
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But then again this is same studio that produced this Nightmare Fuel....
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I can smell the 2002 horrid cheapness now......🤢
Is there any assumption that this IS Threshold's work or is there a document/resume proving that it is? Just curious. I've been looking at the company's resume on their website (even through the Wayback Machine) and don't see this listed.
 

FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
Is there any assumption that this IS Threshold's work or is there a document/resume proving that it is? Just curious. I've been looking at the company's resume on their website (even through the Wayback Machine) and don't see this listed.
Ya know.. it’s weird. So I remember reading ‘somewhere’, can’t remember where tbh that it was Threshold’s work. Could’ve very well been an assumption, however, during a Mission: Space press tour or ceremony or something, as mentioned in an interview with Tony Baxter about the Creation of Figment at a GKTW event. The guy moderating it says that they had Dave Goelz (if I’m remembering this right) with some new animation, dialogue, and lyrics at a Mission: Space event he covered and it ‘is’ documented that Threshold worked on stuff for Mission: Space. So it wouldn’t surprise me if they indeed also did that. It certainly ‘looks’ like their animation and I can’t imagine why new animation & voice over of Figment would be included there otherwise.
 
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FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
I have a hunch maybe they didn’t want to include it on their resume because Journey Into YOUR Imagination was so panned by park guests and maybe they were hesitant to say they were working on the ‘02 redo that added more Figment in. They may have seen it internally as just a cheap plussing of the pre-existing panned ride and not as a full redo per se (which, I mean, that is basically what it is (a basic, low-budget plussing of the panned retheme, “Just shoehorn Figment into every scene, all fixed!”, so that would make sense), but that’s just pure speculation on my part. However, it would seem the same animation team worked on the queue and finale animation of Figment for 99-01’s Journey Into YOUR Imagination aswell judging by the model/render of Figment used upon comparing the 2 redos of the ride. Only way to find out for sure though would be to contact folks involved with Mission: Space and that event maybe? It probably was worked on around the same time. It also seems they were contacted to do more animation and renders in (04?, I think) for the interactive activity they had in the ImageWorks: What-If? Labs involving an institute scientist and a guest and the CG animated Figment would talk on the screen nearby to interact with the two.
 
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FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
Another thing I always found a bit strange (moreso funny tbh) was that apparently the 02-current Journey Into Imagination With Figment recieved little to no fanfare or opening ceremony when it opened unlike Journey Into YOUR Imagination did in ‘99. There was a little privately held ceremony for the online group, “The Friends of Figment” at the time to get a first hand look. Apparently some imagineers involved had showed up aswell. But that’s it as far as I’m aware and have found doing my own research through the years.
 
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HMF

Well-Known Member
Another thing I always found a bit strange (moreso funny tbh) was that apparently the 02-current Journey Into Imagination With Figment recieved little to no fanfare or opening ceremony when it opened unlike Journey Into YOUR Imagination did in ‘99. There was a little privately held ceremony for the online group, “The Friends of Figment” at the time to get a first hand look. Apparently some imagineers involved had showed up aswell. But that’s it as far as I’m aware and have found doing my own research through the years.
Probably because they were too embarrassed by JIYI's failure. We definitely know Kodak was, hence why virtually no Kodak money went into JIIwF. The one positive thing about JIYI i will say is at least it had a tone and setting it was going for, Though of course it wasn't a good one and contrasted with the original, and was a horrible attraction. JIIwF is basically an attempt to try to merge the tones of the first two versions and failing spectacularly.
 

FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
JIIwF is basically an attempt to try to merge the tones of the first two versions and failing spectacularly.
Indeed, and the fact of the matter is, they never should’ve even tried to attempt that. The thing that’ll also always baffle me is why they spent the money to bring Eric Idle back to play Dr. Nigel Channing when apparently they had also gotten Chuck McCann (OG voice of Dreamfinder) but they had him record snoring behind the Dream Lab door. Like.. wow, seriously? What a “genius” use of budget and show planning. (Note the sarcasm in my last sentence)
 
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HMF

Well-Known Member
Indeed, and the fact of the matter is, they never should’ve even tried to attempt that. The thing that’ll also always baffle me is why they spent the money to bring Eric Idle back to play Dr. Nigel Channing when apparently they had also gotten Chuck McCann (OG voice of Dreamfinder) in to record snoring behind the Dream Lab door. Like.. wow, seriously? What a “genius” use of budget and show planning. (Note the sarcasm in my last sentence)
To put it bluntly I love EPCOT and I love Monty Python. I certainly don't like the idea of them being merged as they are two clearly very different things..
 

FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
Indeed, and the fact of the matter is, they never should’ve even tried to attempt that. The thing that’ll also always baffle me is why they spent the money to bring Eric Idle back to play Dr. Nigel Channing when apparently they had also gotten Chuck McCann (OG voice of Dreamfinder) in to record snoring behind the Dream Lab door. Like.. wow, seriously? What a “genius” use of budget and show planning. (Note the sarcasm in my last sentence)
Speaking of wasting budget on that redo.. something else I never fully understood was why they decided to recast Corey Burton when he played Figment perfectly in 99-01’s Journey Into YOUR Imagination, to the point he sounds nearly indistinguishable to Billy Barty’s original 83-98 performances of the character. (The Yeah, Oooh!, the laugh, and the Can they imagine too? lines are archival recordings of Billy but the rest is Corey. You can hear the slight difference in the voice). On that note, something fascinating I ought to mention is a D23 podcast interview with Dave Goelz done (possibly a few years ago, if I remember right?) he mentions when he got cast as Figment and got brought in to record the lines. He initially was going to do a Billy Barty impression upon being told he did it in the past, but the casting director insisted to him, not to sound like Billy Barty but to come up with his own character. No idea why, but it’s bizarre.
Btw, interesting thing to note upon hearing a recent Jim Hill podcast, apparently originally, the project was headed by former imagineer David Mumford and he was initially trying to get Dreamfinder in. And (for some reason or another), he wasn’t able to. Something that typically isn’t mentioned in lookbacks either is that Kathy Mangum became the show producer at some point during production. Not exactly sure what the whole story is/what happened there.. but yeah… Really Odd.. EPCOT Legacy website and some old Orlando Sentinel papers at the time mention a little more on that.
Now granted, I believe David (might be misremembering this) sadly passed before the redo was opened. He might have gotten sick during production, again, can’t fully remember. But yeah.. again, seems like it’s got a convoluted backstory for sure. The only other things I know about it is that Larry Nikolai & Chris Turner were artists on it. I know Larry has stated previously, even he believes that the current ride is a downgrade from the original. Larry did this art of Figment watching the TV, in this version, his outfit is green as opposed to yellow, and Dreamfinder is seen on the TV rather than the reused animations we got from the Mirage activity added to ImageWorks during its little revamp it got in the early 90s (such as the additions of Figment’s Coloring Book replacing Bubble Music, a new Fantasy adventure segment being added to Dreamfinder’s School of Drama, Dreamfinder’s Blimp Race replacing the Lumia ball, and the Making Faces photo activity being added). Seemingly confirming the idea of Dreamfinder originally being the host in earlier concepts was indeed a thing being explored at some point. But again, can’t fully confirm on this. Perhaps you (@Shishagumi ), could contact Larry, Chris, and others and ask them to tell & share more with you? That might be an interesting video to make after your Muppet*Vision 3D video.. the making of the 02-current Journey Into Imagination With Figment redo. Heck, maybe even the 99-01 Journey Into YOUR Imagination too, on that note. Lol! Tom Fitzgerald (supposedly) created that one. Cover both of em. A seemingly very convoluted & bizarre backstory behind the worst revamps of a ride in theme park history, that honestly should be properly documented & set straight by this point.
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FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
There is also some concept art in an Imagineering book I own. I think it’s called The Imagineering Guide to Epcot, or something like that. I think it was released in ‘06? It features concept art of some of the Blast finale figures (further proving that they are Infact, not original 83-98 figures shoehorned into that scene, as has been stated by some previously but newly fabricated for the 02 iteration of the ride). I’ll have to look for it but I’ll share its page here when I do.
 
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FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
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Brer Panther

Well-Known Member
something else I never fully understood was why they decided to recast Corey Burton when he played Figment perfectly in 99-01’s Journey Into YOUR Imagination, to the point he sounds nearly indistinguishable to Billy Barty’s original 83-98 performances of the character.
Yeah, that is a headscratcher... maybe Corey didn't care much for how YOUR Imagination turned out either and wasn't up for it? From what little I've heard of his take, he sounds pretty good.

That said, I do like Dave Goelz's Figment too, in fact I actually like him just as much as Billy Barty. I'm probably just biased because Dave is such a great puppeteer, plus the nostalgia, and I'm in the minority of folks who like Journey Into Imagination With Figment even if it doesn't hold a candle to the original (it's what made me a Figment fan!). My guess is that the reason he was told not to imitate Billy Barty is because they pitched him up (@FigmentJedi has some audio on his Tumblr of Dave's Figment slowed down - it's basically Gonzo).

Hopefully, when they do revamp the ride, they get Dave or Corey back... AJ LoCascio's a great voice actor, but I'm not a huge fan of his Figment in Disney Speedstorm.
 

FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
Hopefully, when they do revamp the ride, they get Dave or Corey back... AJ LoCascio's a great voice actor, but I'm not a huge fan of his Figment in Disney Speedstorm.
I’d say just restore the ride back to what it was, original audio w Chuck McCann as Dreamfinder and Billy Barty as Figment. (Ron Schneider doing the Realm of Science & photo-op Director Dreamfinder in the film finale) & all with the tech & spfx enhancements we would’ve expected/what it probably should’ve received back in ‘99 and some of the stuff possible now that wouldn’t have been possible back in ‘99, let alone ‘02 & ‘83.
Newly recorded audio however, for things like new ImageWorks activities and stuff they do with Figment either in park shows, film, tv, promo stuff, etc. Whoever can sound like Billy Barty’s original portrayal & capture the character as close as possible should be chosen. Same can be said for Dreamfinder. (If Ron can still do it well, get him back in the recording booth)
On that note, yeah, I think Dave Goelz is a wonderful puppet performer and I have a ton of respect & appreciation for him. Love Gonzo too on that note. But I personally find his current/02 Figment performance forced. To me it sounds like he’s yelling out everything rather than speaking casually in a sweet, sincere, upbeat, enthusiastic manner as Billy did. There was a real warmth & charm to Barty’s performance. But again, that’s just my personal opinion. Perhaps if he were given the direction & permission to actually attempt to sound like Billy Barty and the sweet, curious character full of warmth & childish delight from 83-98 rather than the mischevious “interference” showcased in the 02-current ride , he could do it justice for those projects I mentioned? We’d have to see. Same opinion on A.J. btw.
 
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Cmdr_Crimson

Well-Known Member
Found an interesting video showing snippets of Figment from the old former post show that is blocked off by the pointless Simon light game on the wall just as you exit from the ride..


There is some info from this site as well..
 

FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
Found an interesting video showing snippets of Figment from the old former post show that is blocked off by the pointless Simon light game on the wall just as you exit from the ride..


There is some info from this site as well..

Intriguing for sure. While of course, I prefer Figment in his classic audio-animatronic, puppet, & traditionally animated forms most. It’s nonetheless fascinating to see from a historical standpoint the other stuff Threshold (maybe?) rendered & animated of Figment.
 
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FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
Speaking of which, one question that’s been on my mind too is.. I wonder why they decided to outsource to Threshold (if that’s indeed the studio they used for both YOUR Imagination & Imagination With Figment, like they did Mission: Space) rather than use Walt Disney Animation Studios Burbank or Florida. Let alone TV Animation. After all, Walt Disney Animation Burbank did Mickey’s Philharmagic around the same time with CG animation. (And a few years later, did new traditional animation, directed by Eric Goldberg for Grand Fiesta Tour starring The Three Caballeros) So yeah.. odd.. wonder if anyone could answer that at some point? That’d certainly be an interesting question to ask. Would it have really been the cheaper option to do over doing it all in-house? Keep in mind, they used both Burbank & Florida for the previous traditional animation used in the original ride & Mirage activity in the ImageWorks. Hm
 
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jah4955

Well-Known Member
Here is also a little something from Bob Gibbons, a Kodak exec that worked alongside Tony Baxter on the original Journey Into Imagination and was initially also on Journey Into YOUR Imagination ‘til he got fired off it for “being too disruptive” according to Disney. Lol : https://notredameclassof1969blog.blogspot.com/2023/09/on-journey-into-imagination-with-tony.html?m=1

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"They weren't refurbishing the ride for a new generation. ... There was joy in having a twelve-minute ride. ... The bones of the ride were perfect"
  1. Do "whatever it takes" to restore 1.0 ride system.
  2. Imagine (what a concept!) what the 1983 ride would have looked like in 2025 if they consistently made updates to enhance the ride using new technologies over the last 42 years. This will have 2 major influences: Special effects become more special (ie history of Hatbox ghost), and parts of scenes (maybe one or two entire scenes) organically replaced. For example, Dreamfinder taking a digital snapshot of guests thru film camera prop would definitely not have survived as that has lost 100% of its novelty.
  3. Tony Baxter centrally involved with everything.
  4. Build that!
  5. Use Corey Burton & Joe Rhode to cover what Billy Barty & Chuck McCann didn't say (like they did with Donald for Mickey's Philharmagic).
  6. Added bonus: bring back walkaround Dreamfinder with true-to-size Figment puppet. Even as a child I found it off-putting when costumed characters (Disney's & other's) weren't to scale lol...that's what made Dreamfinder/Figment most "magical."
 
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