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EPCOT Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?
- Thread starter djkidkaz
- Start date
dmc493
Well-Known Member
lol worse than the epic ones
DreamfinderGuy
Well-Known Member
Touching on a handful of topics discussed here in the last few pages...
The multi tier Festival Center was definitely possible to build, it was fully planned and sent for contractor bid before the project was canned (unfortunately when ground was already clear). It dawned on me today that that building was a stage, a festival flex space, and a bar with a fireworks viewing upcharge. They built the flex space and the stage there, but skipped the bar. Then it all clicked, Geo-82 is their replacement for the rooftop bar, ironic considering Gamma 1 was supposed to level that whole building. The originally planned festival center did get built, just in pieces in different places.
No plans for Wonders of Life as far as I'm aware but they did clean that building up good last year. If you've seen the leaked interior photos from a while back, it's not that bad anymore. It's definitely ready to be reused for another project when and if they should decide they want to. I think whether or not they do will depend on how long it takes them to get around to it. The money to fix WoL was spent recently and they'll want to capitalize on that if they can when working on a new project there. If it takes them another decade, it might seem more lucrative to take that whole building down and start fresh with a structure that's less difficult to design something for.
The multi tier Festival Center was definitely possible to build, it was fully planned and sent for contractor bid before the project was canned (unfortunately when ground was already clear). It dawned on me today that that building was a stage, a festival flex space, and a bar with a fireworks viewing upcharge. They built the flex space and the stage there, but skipped the bar. Then it all clicked, Geo-82 is their replacement for the rooftop bar, ironic considering Gamma 1 was supposed to level that whole building. The originally planned festival center did get built, just in pieces in different places.
No plans for Wonders of Life as far as I'm aware but they did clean that building up good last year. If you've seen the leaked interior photos from a while back, it's not that bad anymore. It's definitely ready to be reused for another project when and if they should decide they want to. I think whether or not they do will depend on how long it takes them to get around to it. The money to fix WoL was spent recently and they'll want to capitalize on that if they can when working on a new project there. If it takes them another decade, it might seem more lucrative to take that whole building down and start fresh with a structure that's less difficult to design something for.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Disney doesn’t use traditional design-bid-build for large projects. They get the contractor on board well before design work is completed. The construction documents were not complete when the project was killed.
DreamfinderGuy
Well-Known Member
Not sure what you're talking about lol I saw them myself and spoke with people involved. They would not have announced and promoted the crap out of such a large project if they had no intentions of building it.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
I didn’t say they didn’t intend to build it. I said they don’t use design-bid-build and the construction documents were not completed.
dmc493
Well-Known Member
Not to spiral on it too hard but I'm sure the building was hypothetically possible to build - a structural engineering firm isn't going to go too far down the road in their design service and design something that can't stand up, and let's be totally honest it wasn't that radical of a structure. The risk is/was probably in the subsurface conditions which would be defined by the results of a Geotechnical Report, which would define what it takes to hit bearing capacity for all their foundations.
The biggest issue we run into in instances like this - a Geotech Report is based entirely on bores pulled by the Geotechnical Engineer which characterize what the subsurface materials are, where bedrock was identified, and a ton of other lab tested information. If the Geotechnical Report was developed based on a small quantity of bores that don't properly characterize the subsurface condition then the strategy for deep foundations has a higher potential to - not fail per say, but potentially cost WAY more because you need to drill further down than anticipated, add more micropiles than expected, thicker piles, etc etc etc (there's a lot of deep foundation solutions). We had a job that had a Geotech Report based on like 10 bores across a large bldg footprint. The bores claimed we would hit bearing capacity at like 25 foot deep across the pad, it turned out we drilled piles and consistently got to 40+ foot deep until we hit got the rating we needed, ended up being a huge premium to the Owner.
Long story short they might not have been able to guarantee a level of cost certainty around any given solution that would enable the bldg to continue especially thru the COVID and (just straight up bad) corporate decision making happening at the time. WILD speculation on my part but just my two cents
The biggest issue we run into in instances like this - a Geotech Report is based entirely on bores pulled by the Geotechnical Engineer which characterize what the subsurface materials are, where bedrock was identified, and a ton of other lab tested information. If the Geotechnical Report was developed based on a small quantity of bores that don't properly characterize the subsurface condition then the strategy for deep foundations has a higher potential to - not fail per say, but potentially cost WAY more because you need to drill further down than anticipated, add more micropiles than expected, thicker piles, etc etc etc (there's a lot of deep foundation solutions). We had a job that had a Geotech Report based on like 10 bores across a large bldg footprint. The bores claimed we would hit bearing capacity at like 25 foot deep across the pad, it turned out we drilled piles and consistently got to 40+ foot deep until we hit got the rating we needed, ended up being a huge premium to the Owner.
Long story short they might not have been able to guarantee a level of cost certainty around any given solution that would enable the bldg to continue especially thru the COVID and (just straight up bad) corporate decision making happening at the time. WILD speculation on my part but just my two cents
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The project never really made financial sense. What changed and what killed the project was the one-two punch of the pandemic killed all park revenue and that its biggest cheerleader was no longer CEO.
jah4955
Well-Known Member
I'm hoping their plan all along is for it to be temporary, although "temporary" may end up being 20-30 years.
James Alucobond
Well-Known Member
Whether it was initially planned to be temporary or not, it has been pretty universally panned. There's not been a single outlet that's reported on it positively. The most "favorable" feedback it got was when the Broadway displays were in there, at which point they got a resounding "I guess this is slightly less terrible", but it quickly reverted.
I'm hoping that it follows the same trajectory as Harmonious, where we are all shocked by how quickly it is replaced. It's frankly even worse than Harmonious, and I doubt Iger likes it either since it eliminated something he was really pushing for.
Timothy_Q
Well-Known Member
There were several financial reasons that forced Disney's hand to replace Harmonious so quickly
Those same reasons don't exist for Communicore Hall. It's just another empty building in the park
They may eventually figure out better uses for it, but there's no real reason from their end to demo it
HMF
Well-Known Member
We know that the last incarnation of the central plaza was supposedly for the Millennium Celebration and of course it ended up lasting 20 years.
James Alucobond
Well-Known Member
I'm hoping the fact that it's a Chapek-shaped scar on the park right where there was supposed to be a monument to Iger means he'll want to correct it as he leaves. Of course, that's assuming he's as concerned about legacy as some people here can't help but post ten times a day.
HMF
Well-Known Member
He has already cemented his legacy with me as "The Man who ruined EPCOT". I know some will come and say Eisner had already ruined it but I would disagree in the sense that at least the changes under Eisner were about updating and modernizing the original theme. Iger's approach from day one has been "Screw the theme, Just put in some popular IP."I'm hoping the fact that it's a Chapek-shaped scar on the park right where there was supposed to be a monument to Iger means he'll want to correct it as he leaves. Of course, that's assuming he's as concerned about legacy as some people here can't help but post ten times a day.
HMF
Well-Known Member
My understanding is 3.0 is probably worse than 2.0 and that is quite an accomplishment.Haven't been to core 3.0 (-ish?) yet, but I think I'm safe in saying core 1.0 was the best. How about, for 4.0, re-creating core 1.0 with grounded fiber-optics from 2.0?
KDM31091
Well-Known Member
It is honestly an atrocity. If you freeze framed a video of the Hall (with the exception of Goofy time and the few other overlays), I would swear you were in an airport or hospital. In no universe would I guess it was at a Disney park. Not every space has to be wonderful and over the top, but it should be at least a little special. And it just isn't. Whoever greenlit the Hall and central hub honestly needs to be fired. It's a depressing area, broken lights, boring design, not to mention the rusted trees which I just don't get. The little stage is cute, but then the grass being out in the baking sun is impractical for Florida at least half of the year. They did put a little shade over the seating and little games area at least.
Mousegear to Creations Shop was a horrendous downgrade also. It used to be an experience, a themed store that happened to sell things. Now it's a bland box that literally is just "here is the stuff, buy it".
All I can hope is it gets leveled and started over before too long. It has no whimsy, no design, no joy, no Disney.
Mousegear to Creations Shop was a horrendous downgrade also. It used to be an experience, a themed store that happened to sell things. Now it's a bland box that literally is just "here is the stuff, buy it".
All I can hope is it gets leveled and started over before too long. It has no whimsy, no design, no joy, no Disney.
jah4955
Well-Known Member
I would love for Disney to try (again?) for THIS (except I accept "Earth Station" building & Moana are both likely "here to stay.")
James Alucobond
Well-Known Member
Journey of Water is in that image, exactly where it was built, as is Connections. This just suggested Creations would also be destroyed and the Festival Center made slightly rounder, impinging less on the gardens.