News Disney Park Pass System announced for Walt Disney World theme park reservations

[Goofyernmost]

Early entry does very little to circumvent lighting lane…you can get on one or two things…but it’s not really gonna do too much on the ones that have long lines all day. People still rush the one or two with big lines in the park

Rise of the Abrams is only the time it takes to walk the queue after about 5 pm at night on a lot of days…

The sheer quality of the IP taking it to where it belongs

And look how much you paid for a WDW resort room. One way of the other you pay for LL. Disney has covered all its bases.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

And look how much you paid for a WDW resort room. One way of the other you pay for LL. Disney has covered all its bases.

Moderates are usually in line with a decent hotel in a city like New York or Chicago in my experience. Sure deluxe hotels are crazy high but there are so many great options on property that are good deals usually.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Oh I don’t think their quality is anywhere near as bad as Six Flags! It would take years of neglect to get to that point.

Disney is expensive but it’s still an excellent place to vacation.

It sure is, if you can afford it. However, the target audience that built the Disney Parks are now relegated to just looking through the fence at all that "quality' stuff. If just going to the parks were the only expense incurred, than it would probably be fine, the guest and Disney should always beware of what it costs to have a hotel, meals, transportation and the other unanticipated things that traveling with a family has to cover.

 

[Chi84]

It sure is, if you can afford it. However, the target audience that built the Disney Parks are now relegated to just looking through the fence at all that "quality' stuff. If just going to the parks were the only expense incurred, than it would probably be fine, the guest and Disney should always beware of what it costs to have a hotel, meals, transportation and the other unanticipated things that traveling with a family has to cover.

Oh they’re aware. They just don’t care about the target audience that built the parks.

 

[Tom P.]

Oh I don’t think their quality is anywhere near as bad as Six Flags! It would take years of neglect to get to that point.

Disney is expensive but it’s still an excellent place to vacation.

Well, you've lost @Sirwalterraleigh with that last sentence.

It sure is, if you can afford it. However, the target audience that built the Disney Parks are now relegated to just looking through the fence at all that "quality' stuff. If just going to the parks were the only expense incurred, than it would probably be fine, the guest and Disney should always beware of what it costs to have a hotel, meals, transportation and the other unanticipated things that traveling with a family has to cover.

There is no arguing with the fact that Disney is way more expensive than it used to be. However, there are over 50 million people who visit Walt Disney World each year and it is still the most popular vacation resort in the world. Either it's still more affordable overall than folks here like to admit or there are way more rich people around than I thought.

 

[Biff215]

Well, you've lost @Sirwalterraleigh with that last sentence.

There is no arguing with the fact that Disney is way more expensive than it used to be. However, there are over 50 million people who visit Walt Disney World each year and it is still the most popular vacation resort in the world. Either it's still more affordable overall than folks here like to admit or there are way more rich people around than I thought.

Or possibly door #3…more people in more debt than ever.

 

[Tom P.]

Or possibly door #3…more people in more debt than ever.

People borrowing to pay for vacations is not exactly a new phenomenon though. I always remember a scene from an I Love Lucy episode -- "Visitor from Italy" to be specific, which originally aired in 1956. The dialogue goes:

MARIO: No, no, I'm sorry. Borrowing is no way to start a vacation in America.
LUCY: Well, why not? That's the way Americans always start their vacations.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Or possibly door #3…more people in more debt than ever.

People borrowing to pay for vacations is not exactly a new phenomenon though. I always remember a scene from an I Love Lucy episode -- "Visitor from Italy" to be specific, which originally aired in 1956. The dialogue goes:

MARIO: No, no, I'm sorry. Borrowing is no way to start a vacation in America.
LUCY: Well, why not? That's the way Americans always start their vacations.

Kinda whistling past several graveyards here…

Because things have happened…doesn’t guarantee they are always sustainable.

 

[Comped]

Moderates are usually in line with a decent hotel in a city like New York or Chicago in my experience. Sure deluxe hotels are crazy high but there are so many great options on property that are good deals usually.

I stayed in the Waldorf Astoria (or the Marriott Marquis, or the New Yorker, or any of a dozen higher-end hotels) in NYC even 15 years ago, for less than some people pay for moderates today. Never mind deluxes.

 

[Tom P.]

I stayed in the Waldorf Astoria (or the Marriott Marquis, or the New Yorker, or any of a dozen higher-end hotels) in NYC even 15 years ago, for less than some people pay for moderates today. Never mind deluxes.

IMHO, anyone who books a deluxe resort direct through Disney should have their head examined. Unless you are a DVC owner, the only way I would ever consider doing deluxe is renting DVC points. Disney's published rates are literally insanity.

 

[Chi84]

IMHO, anyone who books a deluxe resort direct through Disney should have their head examined. Unless you are a DVC owner, the only way I would ever consider doing deluxe is renting DVC points. Disney's published rates are literally insanity.

I actually prefer the moderates unless I’m going with the whole family and staying on points.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I stayed in the Waldorf Astoria (or the Marriott Marquis, or the New Yorker, or any of a dozen higher-end hotels) in NYC even 15 years ago, for less than some people pay for moderates today. Never mind deluxes.

I’m not sure I follow this…. You’re spending less than $200 for the Waldorf in nyc?

 

[Comped]

I’m not sure I follow this…. You’re spending less than $200 for the Waldorf in nyc?

Waldorf was about $400-ish in those days (and similar hotels with less of a brand name even cheaper). That's $450 a night in today's dollars. I've certainly seen people pay that much for moderates... My point was that Disney's prices have certainly become a bit crazy even compared to very high end hotels in much larger markets.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

That's $450 a night in today's dollars. I've certainly seen people pay that much for moderates...

Sure…. But the prices I’m seeing and paying for moderates are around $200. Which is the same I just paid, on average, for a few nights in Chicago.

 

[Chi84]

Waldorf was about $400-ish in those days (and similar hotels with less of a brand name even cheaper). That's $450 a night in today's dollars. I've certainly seen people pay that much for moderates... My point was that Disney's prices have certainly become a bit crazy even compared to very high end hotels in much larger markets.

Disney’s deluxe hotel prices are insane.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Sure…. But the prices I’m seeing and paying for moderates are around $200. Which is the same I just paid, on average, for a few nights in Chicago.

I can’t remember the last time I paid $200 for a moderate, I always plan on $300 now, which still goes to your original point though, that’s about what I’d expect for a nice hotel in most major cities.

I think moderates are reasonable, which is why I stay at them…. The deluxe prices are insane though, I’ve stayed at some extremely nice hotels around the world and none of them have been as expensive as Disneys deluxe resorts.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

IMHO, anyone who books a deluxe resort direct through Disney should have their head examined. Unless you are a DVC owner, the only way I would ever consider doing deluxe is renting DVC points. Disney's published rates are literally insanity.

Dollar for dollar…”moderates”
Have always been the least bang for your buck…

Though that is off a little now with the escalation of “values” to the rates they are now

 

[Goofyernmost]

Well, you've lost @Sirwalterraleigh with that last sentence.

There is no arguing with the fact that Disney is way more expensive than it used to be. However, there are over 50 million people who visit Walt Disney World each year and it is still the most popular vacation resort in the world. Either it's still more affordable overall than folks here like to admit or there are way more rich people around than I thought.

It's not more popular in the seeable future. Right now the wealthy or those willing to get deeply in debt are going. But the overall sustainable business is gone. I went to WDW 48 times in 35 years. I even brought or convinced others to go. Now I am priced out just when I was able to visit anytime the mood struck me. Believe me the wealthy will quickly find some other toy to send their money on and the indebted will run out of credit. The business model sucks. The management have their golden parachutes and just plain don't give a damn.

 

[Touchdown]

This whole economy is being driven by the top 20% of income or net worth (>130k salary, >500k net worth) those are the only people spending discretionary right now due to the increasing cost of basic goods and stagnant wages. The only thing that hasn’t stagnated is the stock market which of course, these people have significant holdings (if you had 500k invested in a S&P index fund with your dividends factored in you’ve made $73,650 this year or almost half the salary needed to be in the top 20) or enough room to spend on non essentials (not saving properly for retirement can be viewed as future debt.) When the stock market falters again (and it will because it always falters at least for a little while) these people will feel differently.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I stayed in the Waldorf Astoria (or the Marriott Marquis, or the New Yorker, or any of a dozen higher-end hotels) in NYC even 15 years ago, for less than some people pay for moderates today. Never mind deluxes.

Who cares what the price of those places were 15 years ago?

The Marriot Marquis in NY right now is about $650-$700 per night, at normal times, excluding special events or the insane Christmas/NYE prices.

The Alqonquin in NY is $850 per night.

The various Marriots in Boston, range from $700--800 per night. You aren't finding anything like you are describing for less than moderate Disney prices, unless you are using a time machine.