News Disney’s Boy Trouble: Studio Seeks Original IP to Win Back Gen-Z Men Amid Marvel, Lucasfilm Struggles

[Stripes]

For the most part I agree, I think the bigger problem is the mindset behind Disneys “girl boss” ideology.

Disney doesn’t know how to make good, relatable, female characters because they are terrified of giving them flaws, or a weakness, or having them grow… their female characters don’t look inwards to improve themselves, they look outwards and point out external flaws in the world, to improve the audience.

Riley Anderson (Inside Out 2), Mirabel Madrigal (Encanto), Wanda Maximoff (Wandavision), and Yelena Belova (Thunderbolts*) are perfect examples of this.

 

[Mike S]

I don’t see why it matters. If Disney were to announce tomorrow that the sequel trilogy is being de-canonized, how would that make you feel?

Then I’d remember it’s impossible to redo them without recasting and that Disney still messed up the only shot they had to actually get it right.

 

[erasure fan1]

And yet all you Star Wars fans were saying, “Why would they make a show about Cassian Andor? Who cares about this nobody?” Look at how wrong you were.

First, I think it was a fair point to question Andor. There was a lot of things they could have started with before that character. For myself, I was looking forward to the show because I really liked the character. But I can see why people had that sentiment. And to be fair, the "who cares" part is fairly true. The viewership plays that out. It never really hit the heights outside of the more core fanbase that maybe it should have.

In the mind of a Star Wars fan, everything is suspect. It’s either “why are they making a show about this character nobody cares about?” or its “they’re only making this film because the characters are popular.”

Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

Of course. With a fandom as large as star wars, yea, everything will be scrutinized. You'll find the same thing in every fandom. I said the same thing about peacemaker season one. Why would they make a show about this guy? Turns out it was great. I liked it more that all the D+ marvel or star wars shows outside of mando season 1 & 2. Good content can come from anywhere. Star wars isn't some strange exception.

But when you completely wet the bed with what is the core of the franchise, that will tarnish everything else you do. Or at the least, make the fans second guess what you are doing.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Riley Anderson (Inside Out 2), Mirabel Madrigal (Encanto), and Wanda Maximoff (Wandavision) are perfect examples of this.

Totally agree, also rare examples of recent Disney successes. When they get the characters right they tend to succeed.

 

[Smugpugmug]

For the most part I agree, I think the bigger problem is the mindset behind Disneys “girl boss” ideology.

Disney doesn’t know how to make good, relatable, female characters because they are terrified of giving them flaws, or a weakness, or having them grow… their female characters don’t look inwards to improve themselves, they look outwards and point out external flaws in the world, to improve the audience.

Tbh I notice more women complain about Disney's female characters having the "adorkable" personality type more often than female characters being mary sues but that's just what I see on social media. But you could argue that's the same thing, I guess.

 

[Stripes]

Then I’d remember it’s impossible to redo them without recasting and that Disney still messed up the only shot they had to actually get it right.

Who says the original trilogy needs sequels? Star Wars fans treat it as if it’s some divine creation that will never be topped anyway.

Frankly, I don’t know that there is a story that exists where the Luke Skywalker character could meet fan expectations while being as old as Mark Hamill was in the sequel trilogy.

Maybe he should be recast and portrayed by a much younger actor.

First, I think it was a fair point to question Andor. There was a lot of things they could have started with before that character. For myself, I was looking forward to the show because I really liked the character. But I can see why people had that sentiment. And to be fair, the "who cares" part is fairly true. The viewership plays that out. It never really hit the heights outside of the more core fanbase that maybe it should have.

I watched it and I’m not a “core” fan. Marketing was not very broad.

 

[Heppenheimer]

The big problem was not that they greenlit too many shows. It was a problem, but not a big problem. The big problem is that nobody in a position of power paid enough attention or exerted enough influence (Feige) to (1) make sure that the characters were ones that comic book fans cared about and (2) the showrunners and scripts were trying to make entertaining shows for comic book fans and not trying to implement social engineering at every opportunity.

THE EXACT SAME THING DESTROYED MARVEL COMICS.

There is no excuse for having let it happen to the MCU (or frankly Star Wars).

Allow me to play the Devil's advocate here...

Is appealing to comic book fans alone enough to ensure the success of potential tent-pole movies? Not that there can't be quite a bit of cross-over between comic fans and "normies" (for lack of a better word), but from my observations, some of the stuff that the comic book fans want seem rather tedious to an arch-normie like me.

Nobody seems to like the current MCU, but I'm just wondering if the audience pool of comic books fans is large enough to indefinitely sustain such a large franchise. Because it seems the wider audience that Disney wants has moved on to other interests, and I doubt they'll come back in anything approaching the numbers that made the early MCU so profitable.

 

[erasure fan1]

I watched it and I’m not a “core” fan. Marketing was not very broad.

It's hard for me to say. I saw the marketing all over the place. But I should have been seeing them based on my content history. The problem was, it didn't really connect with the casual fan. And for a lot of people who it did connect with, never made it past 2 or 3 episodes. Andor was really good in my eyes. But in general, I don't think it's really proof of lucasfilm figuring anything out. Just the opposite in my eyes. How do you go from something as well written and acted and shot as Andor was. To something like The Acolyte, the exact opposite of Andor.

 

[Stripes]

It's hard for me to say. I saw the marketing all over the place. But I should have been seeing them based on my content history. The problem was, it didn't really connect with the casual fan. And for a lot of people who it did connect with, never made it past 2 or 3 episodes. Andor was really good in my eyes. But in general, I don't think it's really proof of lucasfilm figuring anything out. Just the opposite in my eyes. How do you go from something as well written and acted and shot as Andor was. To something like The Acolyte, the exact opposite of Andor.

The Acolyte was released prior to Andor Season 2 as well as Skeleton Crew.

 

[brb1006]

And are we honestly saying the Lion King is a boy movie? Because I was in middle school when the original came out, and all of my friends and I were obsessed. It’s Hamlet.

I was referring to the popularity of Timon and Pumba were during the film's popularity in the 1990s. Besides Simba and Nala (and Zazu) being featured in tons of merchandise, you couldn't escape seeing anything featuring the comedic duo. Disney was fast enough to cash in on the duo's popularity with a TV animated series in 1995 and tie-in material (such as bug-themed snacks, candy, and food) and PC games geared towards elementary and toddlers.

 

[Mike S]

Allow me to play the Devil's advocate here...

Is appealing to comic book fans alone enough to ensure the success of potential tent-pole movies? Not that there can't be quite a bit of cross-over between comic fans and "normies" (for lack of a better word), but from my observations, some of the stuff that the comic book fans want seem rather tedious to an arch-normie like me.

Nobody seems to like the current MCU, but I'm just wondering if the audience pool of comic books fans is large enough to indefinitely sustain such a large franchise. Because it seems the wider audience that Disney wants has moved on to other interests, and I doubt they'll come back in anything approaching the numbers that made the early MCU so profitable.

I think there might be a bit more crossover than you think. At least from my perspective during the MCU golden age it seemed that while “normies” might not have been buying comics in droves every new little hint presented in the movies spawned endless articles of where things could be going based on the comics and this garnered tons of attention. Basically what I’m saying is if you adapt the best stories from the comics that comic fans already adore odds are those same stories will attract “normie” attention to your movie because the story is probably good enough to jump mediums and be successful as proven by the Infinity Saga. They might not want to read it as a comic, but they’ll watch it as a movie.

 

[brb1006]

Those were creative successes but the sequels were what actually mattered and beyond Mandalorian most people were too burned to care about Disney+ Star Wars as proven by the numbers.

I wouldn’t know as I’ve become completely apathetic to the series and looking at the numbers I’m far from alone.

There’s nothing wrong with female fans simply existing for these franchises. The problem comes when clueless executives fundamentally change things to attract more of them thinking everyone who was already on board will stay as well “just because.”

Everyone loved Iron Man vs. practically no one giving a about Iron Heart, especially the people they were so desperate to attract. Another good example is The Marvels. You’d think women would love to see a female superhero team up right? Nope. They preferred Barbie, and out of the small amount of people that went to see The Marvels the audience was still mostly male. Superhero movies like Marvel and Space Operas like Star Wars will always heavily skew towards a male audience no matter what anyone tries to tell you. Appeal to them first and if your product is good enough it will expand outwards naturally from there.

If I haven’t made it clear I have nothing against female fans of things I like. I welcome it wholeheartedly. The problem I have is with clueless execs changing things to stupidly try to attract a “wider demographic” and ignoring reality.

Yeah, my comment regarding the Lion King didn't intend to come off as bashing female Disney fans. I was talking about why young boys genuinely loved The Lion King.

During my childhood, I personally knew a few young male Disney fans that felt embarrassed to admit they loved Disney movies (specifically films from the Renaissance era) but were comfortable discussing The Lion King alongside the Walt-era and Post-Walt era of Disney movies and cartoons. This was before Tarzan, Atlantis, Treasure Planet, and Lilo and Stitch hit theaters.

Keep in mind, The Lion King came out during a period in the early to mid 90s when various animation studios begun capitalizing the success of the Disney's hit films and classic films. Some feature films (such as Ferngully, Once Upon a Forest, Don Bluth's "The Pebble and the Penguin" and "A Troll in Central Park", Filmation's "Happily Ever After", and the numerous direct-to-video animated films by Golden Films) were released to cash-in on Disney's newer films with some mimicking Disney's character acting. Some even arrived a few weeks before the theatrical release of some of Disney's newer films at the time.

As a result, some parents and children who brought or rented those films that rode off the coattails of the Disney Renaissance started believing Disney suddenly become more associated with little girls. Doesn't help that both "Happily Ever After" and "Ferngully" actually made merchandise that catered more towards the female demographic.

 

[Stripes]

 

[erasure fan1]

The Acolyte was released prior to Andor Season 2 as well as Skeleton Crew.

Ok? They went from Andor season one, really good, to the atrocious acolyte. I won't comment on skeleton crew as the acolyte made me cancel my D+. But the couple episodes I saw were just ok. You might think it is better than the OT, and that's great. But it didn't really make an impact either. As for Andor, it was supposed to be what? 5 seasons? They cut it down to a final second season because they knew it wasn't resonating overall. Again showing they haven't really figured anything out. It's very hard to figure out star wars when the leader of lucasfilm has almost zero knowledge of the brand.

 

[Mike S]

To steer this thread in another direction what if part of the problem is the name “Disney” itself carrying a bit of stigma? What if they went after the male demographic with original IP like the title suggests but put all of those projects under 20th Century Fox?

Something to stew over.

 

[Mike S]

I will always root for Jon Favreau. Outside of aspects of Season 3 he hasn’t missed. Also, why the hell has it taken so long for Sigourney Weaver to be in Star Wars as a rebel? She’s one of the only other actress’ that could stand toe to toe with Carrie Fisher.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

To steer this thread in another direction what if part of the problem is the name “Disney” itself carrying a bit of stigma? What if they went after the male demographic with original IP like the title suggests but put all of those projects under 20th Century Fox?

Something to stew over.

I think the string of billion dollar Marvel movies and billion dollar (poorly reviewed) Star Wars movies under the Disney umbrella counters that argument.

It’s only been the last couple years that the Disney name being attached to a movie has (potentially) harmed it rather than helping it.

There were a couple decades when the Disney name alone (or Marvel, or Star Wars, or Pixar) was enough to guarantee quality and get butts in seats, all that good will seems to be lost now.

 

[Stripes]

Ok? They went from Andor season one, really good, to the atrocious acolyte. I won't comment on skeleton crew as the acolyte made me cancel my D+

Dude, how did Acolyte make you cancel Disney+ when it came out in June 2024? Did you watch Andor season 2? You watched the first couple episodes of Skeleton Crew?

Sounds like either you subscribe, binge, and cancel or you’re confused.

As for Andor, it was supposed to be what? 5 seasons? They cut it down to a final second season because they knew it wasn't resonating overall.

Changing from 5 seasons to 2 seasons was made before season 1 even came out. The change was made due to how long it would take to make 5 seasons as well as Diego Luna’s age needing to line up with Rogue One.

 

[Mike S]

I think the string of billion dollar Marvel movies and billion dollar (poorly reviewed) Star Wars movies under the Disney umbrella counters that argument.

It’s only been the last couple years that the Disney name being attached to a movie has (potentially) harmed it rather than helping it.

There were a couple decades when the Disney name alone (or Marvel, or Star Wars, or Pixar) was enough to guarantee quality and get butts in seats, all that good will seems to be lost now.

True but for Marvel and Star Wars those movies never start with the Disney logo. They’re treated like separate entities like Fox is.

It may sound stupid but this kind of stuff works. Did you know Pulp Fiction is actually a Disney movie? The failed Super Mario Bros. from the 90s?

 

[Stripes]

There were a couple decades when the Disney name alone (or Marvel, or Star Wars, or Pixar) was enough to guarantee quality and get butts in seats, all that good will seems to be lost now.

The Disney brand has gone through a number of peaks and valleys over the the past 100 years. Building it up to a new peak requires films to be released under the Disney brand. @Mike S

True but for Marvel and Star Wars those movies never start with the Disney logo. They’re treated like separate entities like Fox is.

Yes, and all the good movies get credited to the teams at Marvel and Pixar. All the poor ones get blamed on Disney.