Long term effects of WDC decision making, failure to innovate, and price gouging has caught up with WDW

[Jrb1979]

If there are less crowds, that makes the parks a much better place to be imo.

As a guest I agree. I also think that's where the disagreements come from. Most look at things from the guest perspective. From the business side, parks need to have high crowds to work. Personally I'm not so sure it's sustainable to rely on LL sales to make up for the loss in merch and food profits. Look at the complaints with the price of LLMP now. What's going to happen when it hits $50 or more?

 

[thomas998]

Happy Sunday, Fellow Disney Fanatics,

(For the record, I've been a member here since the early 2000s, but can't login due to defunct email address).

Many of us, for more than 10 years, have been sounding the alarm on cost increases being too much and the decline of services offered for attendance. We've been saying for years, to the flames of others, that at some point this will affect WDW in a negative way, that they would out price the average consumer, and it seems to have come to fruition, aided by the opening of EU at USF and affordability of USF, SW, and Dollywood in PF, Tn.

The parks in Orlando were virtually empty for July 4th, historically the third most attended day of the year save for Xmas and Thanksgiving. Many will say "it's the economy," however nearby USF and SW are bursting at the seams, seeing record increases in attendance. Additionally, I've never seen the Florida beaches more crowded (or condos more expensive).

If anyone doubts this, please see WDW PRO podcast on YT for the average wait times throughout the days on July 3 and 4, and for real time video and pics, a long with other data.

I have to say this is disheartening. I still love WDW, was watching Top 7 Must Dos on YT with the family this morning. Ultimately, I long for the way WDW used to be. Where I felt valued as a guest, and was treated as such.

So what will fix all of it? In my opinion, new leadership, in not only Iger and his upper Management across the organization, but the leadership change is needed on the Board of Directors, too. This Company needs a Walt (impossible), or a Michael Eisner circa 1986, a creative mind who aims for cutting edge innovation and offering value to guests. That's a tall ask.

As we face the destruction of Frontierland for another remake of an IP, and the change of the landscape of the Magic Kingdom that will be nearly irreversible, what do you think?

I think the downturn in Disney attendance is just beginning, as WDW prices mirror the cost of a trip to Europe, and nearby parks are, on average, a thousand dollars cheaper for a family over a 5 day trip (I've priced it).

What do you think will fix our beloved company and Theme Park?

Or do you think everything is fine as is? (I can't imagine this to be true).

I'm ready for the flames and sarcasm, but my intent was not to provoke. Rather, open a thorough dialogue as to your thoughts on this. I perused through 6 pages of posts to satisfy those who will tell me this has been discussed adnauseum, but these new realities of July 4th attendance renew the debate. We've been predicting the alienation of guests from WDW since the massive price hikes and charging for once free perks of attendance, and the elementary addiction to IP, low level attractions while USF began to act more like the Disney we knew and loved. I think we've arrived at that point....

Another Eisner isn't the answer, I knew people that worked at Disney in the corporate side during the 80's and he made lots of decisions that were just short term return driven, and picking low hanging fruit. The one thing I agree with is a need for a change at the board level. Right now too many boards in lots of corporations have been infected with member trying to push social and political agendas instead of pushing to have the company succeed. No sane person would continue pushing a social agenda when it has been shown to be view negatively by a significant portion of your customer base. I used to think Disney was the leader in stupidity, though I then saw what Jaguar did and realized Disney is probably only the runner up.

But it will eventually change. A company cannot continue to spit in the face of their customers and expect to remain profitable. They will eventually reach a point where their value as a company falls below the value of the parts carved up and sold off and that's when a takeover will happen and the various parts will be broken off. Frankly an amusement park only company would be much better than where they are now. Imagine a park where their focus was on the guests and providing an experience that resulted in them wanting to return. Their current state has moved me from someone that went 2 or 3 times a year for weeklong visits to someone that might carve out a day or two once every so often... and more often than not I just make any Disney trip to DL because while it isn't the same, they do seem to keep the park in better shape.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Pay to park at the park, pay to get into the park, pay to ride the rides faster, pay more for less amenties if you stay on property, pay more for fractional ownership in a timeshare, pay more for less quality merch, pay more for smaller portions. Now, Disney is paying because nobody has brand loyalty anymore. I know. Let's build a DVC showcase center. That'll win them back.

 

[Jrb1979]

Pay to park at the park, pay to get into the park, pay to ride the rides faster, pay more for less amenties if you stay on property, pay more for fractional ownership in a timeshare, pay more for less quality merch, pay more for smaller portions. Now, Disney is paying because nobody has brand loyalty anymore. I know. Let's build a DVC showcase center. That'll win them back.

I agree. I also think that it's not just a Disney problem but a problem with all parks. Part of it stems from IMO kids today having access to so much IP that it's a lot harder to build attachment to a brand.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

I might be a little off on the numbers but I read that Disney gets somewhere near 40% of their revenue from the parks and universal gets 8%. Big difference.

Parks are 8% of Comcast revenue, which has to operate a whole huge telecom business that is not doing so hot.

If you narrow down to the NBCUniversal subsidiary, I think parks account for roughly 40-50% of revenue there too.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

I agree. I also think that it's not just a Disney problem but a problem with all parks. Part of it stems from IMO kids today having access to so much IP that it's a lot harder to build attachment to a brand.

Disney has a pattern. And that is: introduce a fee that is minimal and is almost an afterthought. Then when the fee is acknowledged and accepted, start to raise it. And contininue to raise it.

Works for implementing changes too. Here's a story. Many years ago a 16oz Beer was about $8. I remember being in line at an EPCOT kiosk and I glanced at the menu and noticed "hey, they dropped the beer price to $6.50".

I got my beer but then realized it was in a 12oz cup. A few months later the 12oz beer was now $6.89, then $7.50, and within about 10 months they were selling a 12oz beer at the $8 price point that the 16oz carried only several months before. It's Disney's MO. It's how they boil the frog. They think people don't notice. But they do.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I can see a few angles

Eliminating expense on older stuff is a
Notorious tactic they do today

Just did it with splash…doing it with CTX…did it in studios several times…notably the movie ride…

Not a foreign concept

Cars is a popular merch franchise…that’s a big part of this

It also should not go unnoticed that it serves as a “boy centric” counter facing the splash overlay…

I don't think that is probably a thought. The new attractions, if completed, are not gender specific in the 21st century. There are no princesses involved and both genders or any other that one might care to name would equally be enjoyed by all. I don't even see Tiana's as a girl centric attraction. I like it and don't remember ever being a girl

In my opinion, the poor decision making, failure to innovate, and price gouging (which are all real) has not and will not catch up to Disney and cause issues.

There are plenty of folks who will continue to show up and pay.

Part of my mind asks, "Maybe WDW will be less crowded and I may have a better experience?"

Only one thing has to happen to end that made that rush to the door a requirement. Over the years Disney Parks were considered rights of passage. It was a social thing that you bring your children to the parks. WDW was on the top of the list. Disney was the only one that had that reputation. It may not seem like much, but when there no longer is pressure from their kids to go there parents are going to stop feeling like they have to go. That is the magical lock combination that had no additional expense to profit from, a lot. That goes, which it seems to be, slightly now, but I'm thinking that it is going to start to snowball in the very near future making a Disney Park just another park. They have done a few foolish things within the last few years that helps boast that theory.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Disney has a pattern. And that is: introduce a fee that is minimal and is almost an afterthought. Then when the fee is acknowledged and accepted, start to raise it. And contininue to raise it.

Works for implementing changes too. Here's a story. Many years ago a 16oz Beer was about $8. I remember being in line at an EPCOT kiosk and I glanced at the menu and noticed "hey, they dropped the beer price to $6.50".

I got my beer but then realized it was in a 12oz cup. A few months later the 12oz beer was now $6.89, then $7.50, and within about 10 months they were selling a 12oz beer at the $8 price point that the 16oz carried only several months before. It's Disney's MO. It's how they boil the frog. They think people don't notice. But they do.

How are we supposed to get inappropriately drunk at Epcot with just 12oz?

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

If they stayed the course before the covid closures and kept DME, FP+, and made your trip feel "Magical" then I would be happy...

 

[Jrb1979]

If they stayed the course before the covid closures and kept DME, FP+, and made your trip feel "Magical" then I would be happy...

While I agree. COVID was the perfect opportunity to change things why have always wanted to do.

 

[CoastalElite64]

Very interesting video on this topic. Its not just WDW.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Very interesting video on this topic. Its not just WDW.

You know what they say.... The only constant in life is change....

 

[Jrb1979]

Very interesting video on this topic. Its not just WDW.

Agreed it's not. I will say it's mostly a North America thing. Most parks across North America are seeing a decline. When you look at European and Asian parks, most are doing very well. The question then is why? Why have many lost interest in theme parks?

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

How are we supposed to get inappropriately drunk at Epcot with just 12oz?

With about $300

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

The only constant in life is change....

100% correct. In Disney’s case they prefer Silver Dollars or Half Dollars if you got one. Otherwise rolls of quarters will do. Loonies and Toonies will also suffice for our friends up North.

 

[Raidermatt]

Disney no longer cares (much) about raw attendance numbers. They are banking on getting more $'s from fewer, more affluent, guests. So far it doesn't seem they are particularly concerned about how it's going.

Beyond just tickets, this applies to all of their revenue streams. Fewer tickets sold? No problem if those tickets are higher priced, and new revenue streams, like LL, are added. Sure, that results in fewer burgers and chicken nuggets sold, but if you charge more and in some cases reduce portions, the math can work. Plus your variable costs decrease (relatively speaking) since it takes fewer CMs to service smaller crowds.

The disconnect is that usually when pursuing such a strategy, a company must increase its service level. Disney is not going that route, and the question is will it catch up with them.

The other danger is if hard times fall on these more affluent guests, it might not be easy to get the masses back now that they have been weaned off your product. Or Disney could overplay its hand and raise prices too much too fast. losing even the affluent guests they covet.

It all gets back to business philosophy. Today's Disney views the parks as a commodity. This started with Eisner and accelerated when Wells passed, accelerated again under Iger1, hit lightspeed under Chapek, and has gone back to Iger1 acceleration levels under Iger2.

Classic Disney was in it to make $'s of course, but they saw the product as more of an art form than a commodity and they managed it as such.

But getting back to where today's Disney is heading, it's hard to see their strategy working forever. Maybe they have reached a tipping point, maybe not. But eventually it will come. You can only squeeze more from less for so long.

 

[Lilofan]

You know what they say.... The only constant in life is change....

And death and taxes.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

The disconnect is that usually when pursuing such a strategy, a company must increase its service level. Disney is not going that route, and the question is will it catch up with them.

This is the baffling part to me, if Disney truly wanted to attract a more affluent crowd they’d simply raise their prices while offering the same premium service they’ve always offered, but that’s not what they’ve done, they’ve decided to nickel and dime everyone, while at the same time decreasing the experience, that would indicate they want the same crowd they’ve always had but they want to extricate a couple extra bucks out of each of them while simultaneously spending a couple bucks less on each of them.

Nothing they’re doing makes me think they want to lower attendance or attract a higher end clientele, it seems they just want to fleece their existing guest-base a bit more while they’re in the parks.

If they still offered the 2019 product at a 50% price increase we’d still be going, but with the diminished product we don’t feel we get our monies worth. The value just isn’t there anymore.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

The other thing that concerns me, and it is not exclusive to Disney is that the definition of "vacation" has changed in the theme park world. As a kid and as young father with a family I would visit WDW and it was a very low stress, explore at your own pace, and relaxing experience.

Over the past decade or two it has morphed into a: how much crap can we fit in today, wake up early-go to sleep late, hurry, hurry, hurry, type of experience. Where the stress level was basically minimal to non-existant before - the needle has approached the red area now.

I miss strolling through the Disney Village not worrying or caring about time or that I had to be somewhere within the next 45 minutes. Disney has become a very stressful place. And the areas that existed that provided a little bit of escape (like the walkway between Poly and GF) have been removed and replaced with more: "Let's cram it all in".

 

[John park hopper]

The other thing that concerns me, and it is not exclusive to Disney is that the definition of "vacation" has changed in the theme park world. As a kid and as young father with a family I would visit WDW and it was a very low stress, explore at your own pace, and relaxing experience.

Over the past decade or two it has morphed into a: how much crap can we fit in today, wake up early-go to sleep late, hurry, hurry, hurry, type of experience. Where the stress level was basically minimal to non-existant before - the needle has approached the red area now.

I miss strolling through the Disney Village not worrying or caring about time or that I had to be somewhere within the next 45 minutes. Disney has become a very stressful place. And the areas that existed that provided a little bit of escape (like the walkway between Poly and GF) have been removed and replaced with more: "Let's cram it all in".

Totally agree. WDW now has become very stressful with all the pre planning, spending half your time in lines etc