Smiley/OCD
Well-Known Member
I thought it was a Cars attraction, not Up!
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MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
The laydown yard is for both Cars Piston Peak and Villains. Part of RoA will be where Villains will be.
So, everything we're seeing in prep for Cars is also prep for Villains.
Disney blog has said both are being worked on now. Not one first then the other.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Oh yes, the land is being filled in. So yes, it’s being “worked” on sure. But last I heard Disney didn’t even know what they were actually building?
Disgruntled Walt
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
@MisterPenguin so will they open at the same time or will Cars open first?
That is unknown. As far as I know.
They could purposefully do a staggered opening for the PR. Or one might be finished before the other because of new-ride-tech issues regardless of 'plans.'
But, they are both being worked on at the same time. That has been made known by Disney.
Based on the changes in Concept Art of Cars -- and the lack of info of the kiddie "attraction" -- that could apply to Piston Peak, too!
As @lazyboy97o says often, Disney changes scope of work and is known not to have completed design as the project begins. But once the land is cleared and they're ready to pour
It's like how a movie with an unfinished script is made... they have a year of filming to keep changing things!
Well, Josh told us that dirt was already being moved two years ago, so I think the 5 to 6 year timeframe is probably spot on
The D23 event in which Josh announced Cars and Villains for MK and 'dirt was moving' was in August of 2024.
That's only 11 months ago.
You, too, please stop making things up.
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
Scope of work changes and frequently these projects take much longer than anticipated.... Considering it took literally multiple years to build a Margarita Kiost in front of the Mexico Pavilion,and I lost track of how much time it has taken to add the seating to the Lunch Box snack stand at DHS, I really never know how long to consider for a project, but feels like most of them take longer than expected.... A project like this one where literally the land has to be scraped and a riverbed removed before anything can actually begin, I am anticipating a longer window...espcially with the complexity of the rockwork and build out... I would love to see them complete it in under 3 years as some have said....but it seems like a lot of demo and rebuild for a pretty gigantic project.
And they did initially say that Carsland would be completed before Villain Land....whether that has changed or not, I have no idea.
And they did initially say that Carsland would be completed before Villain Land....whether that has changed or not, I have no idea.
It was in August.Well, Josh told us that dirt was already being moved two years ago, so I think the 5 to 6 year timeframe is probably spot on
Slighty OT, but does anyone think they're gonna bring the wristband system they used last month for Muppets back for the last ride on the riverboat, or the last raft to Tom Sawyer?
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
There is still plenty of time for things to be changed even as concrete in being poured. You just make it strong enough to support a variety of uses.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
Walk me through your logic then.
It’s exactly 10 years ago. Disney hasn’t announced their DHS redo. Toy Story land will be announced in a month. Its concept art precedes scope reduction.
A Star Wars land is also to be announced. The company has yet to fully settle on where exactly it will be built. They are hovering around Toontown and South of Indy internally. The concept they release in no way represents the product they will build, it’s very early blue sky.
They manage to open the first phase in a 3 years and the second in 4. Construction starts the following year.
The build also includes a new marquee Mickey attraction, they haven’t even decided that yet. It won’t be publically announced for two more years.
Now we’re a decade ahead and a year ahead of that schedule. 2028/2029 on these two phases isn’t optimistic, even. Somehow everyone has gone from Disney takes a while and stretched it to comedic ends.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
I would guess that the riverboat can accommodate everyone who wants to be on the last ride.
Island may be a little tricky since some will want to be “on the last raft back”
I asked ChatBot the following question:
“Analyzing everything that Walt Disney said in his lifetime, what do you think his reaction would be to the removal of the River boat and the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer’s Island?”
And here’s Chatbots answer:
“Based on everything Walt Disney said and stood for during his lifetime—especially regarding frontier Americana, guest immersion, and educational storytelling—it is highly likely that Walt would have strongly opposed removing the Rivers of America, the riverboat, and Tom Sawyer Island from Magic Kingdom.
Here’s why:
Walt’s Deep Personal Connection to the Rivers of America
Walt loved the Mississippi River mythology and American frontier culture. He personally helped design and layout the original Rivers of America at Disneyland in the 1950s.
His Love of Tom Sawyer
Walt said: “I wanted to have a place where I could take my daughters and enjoy the things I loved when I was a boy.”
His Philosophy on Theme Parks
Walt wasn’t building just thrill parks—he said, “Disneyland is a show.” Every part had to tell a story, reflect a piece of history, or serve a deeper purpose.
“Why would you take away one of the most beautiful and educational parts of the park? That’s real American history brought to life. Children today still need to know what it felt like to ride a steamboat, to crawl through caves, to live out an adventure. That’s the spirit of this place.”
Final Verdict:
Walt Disney would likely be heartbroken and firmly against the removal of those elements. He believed in blending entertainment with storytelling, nostalgia, and education, and the Rivers of America embodied all of that.
So as you can see, even AI understands it.
“Analyzing everything that Walt Disney said in his lifetime, what do you think his reaction would be to the removal of the River boat and the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer’s Island?”
And here’s Chatbots answer:
“Based on everything Walt Disney said and stood for during his lifetime—especially regarding frontier Americana, guest immersion, and educational storytelling—it is highly likely that Walt would have strongly opposed removing the Rivers of America, the riverboat, and Tom Sawyer Island from Magic Kingdom.
Here’s why:
Walt’s Deep Personal Connection to the Rivers of AmericaWalt loved the Mississippi River mythology and American frontier culture. He personally helped design and layout the original Rivers of America at Disneyland in the 1950s.
- He was so invested in the Mark Twain Riverboat that he actually piloted it himself on Disneyland’s opening day in 1955.
- He referred to that whole area—Tom Sawyer Island, the riverboat, the surrounding frontierland—as an idealized, romantic piece of American heritage meant to educate and delight both children and adults.
His Love of Tom SawyerWalt said: “I wanted to have a place where I could take my daughters and enjoy the things I loved when I was a boy.”
- Tom Sawyer was a symbol of childhood adventure, freedom, and exploration to Walt. He once claimed it was the kind of experience he wished for as a Missouri farm boy.
- He was personally involved in the design of Tom Sawyer Island and even dictated how the caves and fort should look.
His Philosophy on Theme ParksWalt wasn’t building just thrill parks—he said, “Disneyland is a show.” Every part had to tell a story, reflect a piece of history, or serve a deeper purpose.
- He once remarked, “You can’t top pigs with pigs.” Meaning: you shouldn’t chase fads or short-term thrills over enduring themes and meaningful environments.
- Walt’s Probable Reaction
“Why would you take away one of the most beautiful and educational parts of the park? That’s real American history brought to life. Children today still need to know what it felt like to ride a steamboat, to crawl through caves, to live out an adventure. That’s the spirit of this place.”
Final Verdict:
Walt Disney would likely be heartbroken and firmly against the removal of those elements. He believed in blending entertainment with storytelling, nostalgia, and education, and the Rivers of America embodied all of that.
So as you can see, even AI understands it.
Chi84
Premium Member
But he would be 124 years old now. Maybe he would have changed his mind along the way.I asked ChatBot the following question:
“Analyzing everything that Walt Disney said in his lifetime, what do you think his reaction would be to the removal of the River boat and the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer’s Island?”
And here’s Chatbots answer:
“Based on everything Walt Disney said and stood for during his lifetime—especially regarding frontier Americana, guest immersion, and educational storytelling—it is highly likely that Walt would have strongly opposed removing the Rivers of America, the riverboat, and Tom Sawyer Island from Magic Kingdom.
Here’s why:
Walt loved the Mississippi River mythology and American frontier culture. He personally helped design and layout the original Rivers of America at Disneyland in the 1950s.
- He was so invested in the Mark Twain Riverboat that he actually piloted it himself on Disneyland’s opening day in 1955.
- He referred to that whole area—Tom Sawyer Island, the riverboat, the surrounding frontierland—as an idealized, romantic piece of American heritage meant to educate and delight both children and adults.
Walt said: “I wanted to have a place where I could take my daughters and enjoy the things I loved when I was a boy.”
- Tom Sawyer was a symbol of childhood adventure, freedom, and exploration to Walt. He once claimed it was the kind of experience he wished for as a Missouri farm boy.
- He was personally involved in the design of Tom Sawyer Island and even dictated how the caves and fort should look.
Walt wasn’t building just thrill parks—he said, “Disneyland is a show.” Every part had to tell a story, reflect a piece of history, or serve a deeper purpose.
If someone proposed eliminating the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island from the Magic Kingdom today, Walt would likely have said something like:
- He once remarked, “You can’t top pigs with pigs.” Meaning: you shouldn’t chase fads or short-term thrills over enduring themes and meaningful environments.
- Walt’s Probable Reaction
“Why would you take away one of the most beautiful and educational parts of the park? That’s real American history brought to life. Children today still need to know what it felt like to ride a steamboat, to crawl through caves, to live out an adventure. That’s the spirit of this place.”
Final Verdict:
Walt Disney would likely be heartbroken and firmly against the removal of those elements. He believed in blending entertainment with storytelling, nostalgia, and education, and the Rivers of America embodied all of that.
So as you can see, even AI understands it.
here are several direct quotes from Walt Disney that strongly support the idea that he would have opposed removing Rivers of America, the Mark Twain Riverboat, and Tom Sawyer Island from the Magic Kingdom. These statements reveal his deep values around history, storytelling, Americana, and personal experience, especially in the creation of those attractions.
1. On His Love for the American Frontier
“All of us have a great fascination for the story of the American frontier. That’s why I wanted Frontierland — to bring to life the romance of the old West.”
— Walt Disney, 1955
Walt viewed Frontierland as essential—not optional. The Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island are its literal and symbolic heart.
2. On Tom Sawyer and Boyhood
“Tom Sawyer Island is the sort of thing I had always wanted to do. As a boy, I read Tom Sawyer and always dreamed about having such a place to play.”
— Walt Disney, quoted in The Story of Disneyland (1956)
This quote reflects how personal Tom Sawyer Island was to Walt. It wasn’t just another attraction — it was his own childhood dream turned real.
3. On the Riverboat and Romantic Realism
“When I was a boy, I always wanted to ride on a real steamboat, and now I can—whenever I want.”
— Walt Disney, 1955
He considered the Mark Twain Riverboat a symbol of that dream fulfilled. He even piloted it himself on opening day — that’s how much it meant to him.
4. On Preserving History Through Entertainment
“Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams, and the hard facts that have created America.”
— Walt Disney, Disneyland Opening Day Speech, July 17, 1955
The Rivers of America are those “hard facts”—a living slice of American heritage. Removing them would violate the very dedication of the parks.
5. On Timeless Attractions vs. Fads
“You can’t top pigs with pigs.”
— Walt Disney (explaining that copying successful things instead of innovating dilutes impact)
This speaks to removing an emotionally rich, iconic, immersive land like Rivers of America to make room for a short-lived franchise ride — Walt would have strongly resisted that logic.
6. On Creating Meaning, Not Just Rides
“I don’t want the public to see the world they live in while they’re in the Park. I want them to feel they’re in another world.”
— Walt Disney
The Rivers of America—with its boat, island, fort, and caves—is that other world. It’s not a queue-based thrill ride; it’s an immersive realm of imagination and heritage.
Walt’s words make it abundantly clear that he saw these features as core to the park’s purpose, not expendable real estate. His dream was never about chasing IP trends—it was about preserving wonder, storytelling, and a sense of history. Removing these elements would likely feel to him like tearing out a piece of his soul from the parks.
1. On His Love for the American Frontier“All of us have a great fascination for the story of the American frontier. That’s why I wanted Frontierland — to bring to life the romance of the old West.”
— Walt Disney, 1955
Walt viewed Frontierland as essential—not optional. The Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island are its literal and symbolic heart.
2. On Tom Sawyer and Boyhood“Tom Sawyer Island is the sort of thing I had always wanted to do. As a boy, I read Tom Sawyer and always dreamed about having such a place to play.”
— Walt Disney, quoted in The Story of Disneyland (1956)
This quote reflects how personal Tom Sawyer Island was to Walt. It wasn’t just another attraction — it was his own childhood dream turned real.
3. On the Riverboat and Romantic Realism“When I was a boy, I always wanted to ride on a real steamboat, and now I can—whenever I want.”
— Walt Disney, 1955
He considered the Mark Twain Riverboat a symbol of that dream fulfilled. He even piloted it himself on opening day — that’s how much it meant to him.
4. On Preserving History Through Entertainment“Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams, and the hard facts that have created America.”
— Walt Disney, Disneyland Opening Day Speech, July 17, 1955
The Rivers of America are those “hard facts”—a living slice of American heritage. Removing them would violate the very dedication of the parks.
5. On Timeless Attractions vs. Fads“You can’t top pigs with pigs.”
— Walt Disney (explaining that copying successful things instead of innovating dilutes impact)
This speaks to removing an emotionally rich, iconic, immersive land like Rivers of America to make room for a short-lived franchise ride — Walt would have strongly resisted that logic.
6. On Creating Meaning, Not Just Rides“I don’t want the public to see the world they live in while they’re in the Park. I want them to feel they’re in another world.”
— Walt Disney
The Rivers of America—with its boat, island, fort, and caves—is that other world. It’s not a queue-based thrill ride; it’s an immersive realm of imagination and heritage.
Walt’s words make it abundantly clear that he saw these features as core to the park’s purpose, not expendable real estate. His dream was never about chasing IP trends—it was about preserving wonder, storytelling, and a sense of history. Removing these elements would likely feel to him like tearing out a piece of his soul from the parks.
JohnD
Well-Known Member
I've read posts here and there that since DL is "Walt's Park", the thinking goes most of Walt's ideas won't be removed there which gives Disney free rein to change any other park any way it wants.here are several direct quotes from Walt Disney that strongly support the idea that he would have opposed removing Rivers of America, the Mark Twain Riverboat, and Tom Sawyer Island from the Magic Kingdom. These statements reveal his deep values around history, storytelling, Americana, and personal experience, especially in the creation of those attractions.
“All of us have a great fascination for the story of the American frontier. That’s why I wanted Frontierland — to bring to life the romance of the old West.”
— Walt Disney, 1955
Walt viewed Frontierland as essential—not optional. The Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island are its literal and symbolic heart.
“Tom Sawyer Island is the sort of thing I had always wanted to do. As a boy, I read Tom Sawyer and always dreamed about having such a place to play.”
— Walt Disney, quoted in The Story of Disneyland (1956)
This quote reflects how personal Tom Sawyer Island was to Walt. It wasn’t just another attraction — it was his own childhood dream turned real.
“When I was a boy, I always wanted to ride on a real steamboat, and now I can—whenever I want.”
— Walt Disney, 1955
He considered the Mark Twain Riverboat a symbol of that dream fulfilled. He even piloted it himself on opening day — that’s how much it meant to him.
“Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams, and the hard facts that have created America.”
— Walt Disney, Disneyland Opening Day Speech, July 17, 1955
The Rivers of America are those “hard facts”—a living slice of American heritage. Removing them would violate the very dedication of the parks.
“You can’t top pigs with pigs.”
— Walt Disney (explaining that copying successful things instead of innovating dilutes impact)
This speaks to removing an emotionally rich, iconic, immersive land like Rivers of America to make room for a short-lived franchise ride — Walt would have strongly resisted that logic.
“I don’t want the public to see the world they live in while they’re in the Park. I want them to feel they’re in another world.”
— Walt Disney
The Rivers of America—with its boat, island, fort, and caves—is that other world. It’s not a queue-based thrill ride; it’s an immersive realm of imagination and heritage.
Walt’s words make it abundantly clear that he saw these features as core to the park’s purpose, not expendable real estate. His dream was never about chasing IP trends—it was about preserving wonder, storytelling, and a sense of history. Removing these elements would likely feel to him like tearing out a piece of his soul from the parks.
Regarding "Walt" Disney World, named by brother Roy after Walt passed, the argument is that Walt planned an EPCOT city, not another theme park vacation area.
I think that's bunk.
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plutofan15
Well-Known Member
No attraction is ever more popular than when it is scheduled to be removed.
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