MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

Gusey

Well-Known Member
Water features aren’t interchangeable. Just having water right at that edge is not a strong organizing principle. It being kept shows a complete lack of understanding of the role of the Rivers of America in the larger design of the space.
All I was saying was the facts that have been released. Not everything needs to be an argument. I get you don't want the Rivers of America to leave, but let's not debate the fact that the dock area will remain and there will be a prominent water feature still in Frontierland.
It’ll be more of a creek. It will not at all be the same story wise because the scale makes no sense for it to be an organizing feature.
At no point has it been said that the water feature will be a creek, that's something you've said to justify you're dislike of the change. Let's please stick with facts
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
All I was saying was the facts that have been released. Not everything needs to be an argument. I get you don't want the Rivers of America to leave, but let's not debate the fact that the dock area will remain and there will be a prominent water feature still in Frontierland.

At no point has it been said that the water feature will be a creek, that's something you've said to justify you're dislike of the change. Let's please stick with facts
The fact is that you cannot just claim it is the same. It will not be the same size. It will not have the same spatial design. Those are the facts.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
All I was saying was the facts that have been released. Not everything needs to be an argument.
While I’m not trying to argue…. There haven’t been lots of facts released about this project. The concept art, and the newly released illustration (which should be taken less seriously than the concept art in my opinion) both show water - but we don’t know much about it.
 

Gusey

Well-Known Member
The fact is that you cannot just claim it is the same. It will not be the same size. It will not have the same spatial design. Those are the facts.
Look back at what I wrote, I never actually claimed it was the same river, just that there will still be a prominent water feature.
Yet you are claiming you know the exact size of the new river when we don't know the size of the new river until they build it. That's the fact. We do know the back half of RoA will be removed, but the actual width of the new river to the Cars ride could be the same width as the current river is to Tom Sawyer's Island, If that is the case, then it is close enough for me to have the same effect of seeing the water from the CBJ area and the docks. But as I've said, we don't know the width of this new river until it get's built
 

Gusey

Well-Known Member
While I’m not trying to argue…. There haven’t been lots of facts released about this project. The concept art, and the newly released illustration (which should be taken less seriously than the concept art in my opinion) both show water - but we don’t know much about it.
That's my point. We don't know enough facts, and won't until construction actually begins, but we shouldn't be debating the facts we do know:
  • This project is replacing the south half of RoA, Tom Sawyer Island and the Liberty Belle
  • The main attraction will simulate a ralley race in all-terrain ride vehicles
  • The project will be based in the fictional location of Piston Peak, inspired by the Rocky Mountain area
  • The dock area is remaining
  • There will be a prominent water feature - Rugged mountains with dramatic peaks will be nestled along a calming waterway across from Grizzly Hall and soaring geysers from the famed Big Thunder Mountain Railroad will stretch into the trails of our off-road rally. 
  • Imagineers are using a style of architecture called “Parkitecture,” which was developed by the National Park Service to create structures that harmonize with the natural environment.   
  • Trees will provide a natural barrier between the off-road rally and other parts of Frontierland and Liberty Square.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Look back at what I wrote, I never actually claimed it was the same river, just that there will still be a prominent water feature.
Yet you are claiming you know the exact size of the new river when we don't know the size of the new river until they build it. That's the fact. We do know the back half of RoA will be removed, but the actual width of the new river to the Cars ride could be the same width as the current river is to Tom Sawyer's Island, If that is the case, then it is close enough for me to have the same effect of seeing the water from the CBJ area and the docks. But as I've said, we don't know the width of this new river until it get's built
Maybe give the water management permits a gander. They didn’t design it that way because they’re keeping a large basin.
 

easyrowrdw

Well-Known Member
That's my point. We don't know enough facts, and won't until construction actually begins, but we shouldn't be debating the facts we do know:
  • This project is replacing the south half of RoA, Tom Sawyer Island and the Liberty Belle
  • The main attraction will simulate a ralley race in all-terrain ride vehicles
  • The project will be based in the fictional location of Piston Peak, inspired by the Rocky Mountain area
  • The dock area is remaining
  • There will be a prominent water feature - Rugged mountains with dramatic peaks will be nestled along a calming waterway across from Grizzly Hall and soaring geysers from the famed Big Thunder Mountain Railroad will stretch into the trails of our off-road rally. 
  • Imagineers are using a style of architecture called “Parkitecture,” which was developed by the National Park Service to create structures that harmonize with the natural environment.   
  • Trees will provide a natural barrier between the off-road rally and other parts of Frontierland and Liberty Square.
I think it's reasonable to question what we actually know about the features/design of the land. The first map was pretty vague and, if memory serves me correctly, had designs from the Paris(?) version of Frontierland. The second was a cartoon-style rendering that can't possibly be representative of what we'll wind up with.
 

Gusey

Well-Known Member
Maybe give the water management permits a gander. They didn’t design it that way because they’re keeping a large basin.
Have you got a link? Everything I've found doesn't mention keeping a large basin
I feel like you're not actually reading anything I'm writing. I've acknowledged that the back half of RoA are getting removed, and I'm talking about the new river they're building, which we don't know the size of. No matter what, the removal of the back half of the RoA justifies them keeping a large basin
 

Gusey

Well-Known Member
I think it's reasonable to question what we actually know about the features/design of the land. The first map was pretty vague and, if memory serves me correctly, had designs from the Paris(?) version of Frontierland. The second was a cartoon-style rendering that can't possibly be representative of what we'll wind up with.
That's why everything I've listed is not from the concept art, but from official press releases. Why do we need to question those press releases at the moment? At what point did this community decide to read official press releases and just decide that actually Disney are just lying to us and they're going to do something completely different?
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
… but the actual width of the new river to the Cars ride could be the same width as the current river is to Tom Sawyer's Island, If that is the case, then it is close enough for me to have the same effect of seeing the water from the CBJ area and the docks. But as I've said, we don't know the width of this new river until it get's built
We know the width will be reduced and that it will be truncated such that it clearly ceases to exist in guest view at certain points (e.g. near the Haunted Mansion). One bank will also be built up to create the effect that the water source is runoff from a mountain, thus making it in effect more accurately classified as a creek than a river. What about the releases that we’ve seen so far would lead you to believe the width will be retained, unless you just mean that no plans are final until ground is broken (in which case all conversation is useless)?
 

Gusey

Well-Known Member
We know the width will be reduced and that it will be truncated such that it clearly ceases to exist in guest view at certain points (e.g. near the Haunted Mansion). One bank will also be built up to create the effect that the water source is runoff from a mountain, thus making it in effect more accurately classified as a creek than a river. What about the releases that we’ve seen so far would lead you to believe the width will be retained, unless you just mean that no plans are final until ground is broken (in which case all conversation is useless)?
The length is being reduced, but we don't know the width from the dock area to the where the Cars attraction is located. That's the width of the new river I've been talking about. And yes, until plans get released or it's built we don't know for definite the width, that's why I'm saying that those claiming it will be insignifcant and small can't be claiming that opinion as a fact. That's my issue with some of these posts, they're claiming speculation as fact, then using that speculation to complain about the project and claim that those of us that are in support of the project are wrong and should be hating it.
 

easyrowrdw

Well-Known Member
That's why everything I've listed is not from the concept art, but from official press releases. Why do we need to question those press releases at the moment? At what point did this community decide to read official press releases and just decide that actually Disney are just lying to us and they're going to do something completely different?
Fair enough. I think it's fine to question press releases in general because they're just PR-speak fluff. Beyond that, they failed to provide a realistic visualization of the land. Instead, they gave us a cartoon. I think they also indicated the second ride hasn't be decided, which makes me wonder how much of the plans are still in flux.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The length is being reduced, but we don't know the width from the dock area to the where the Cars attraction is located. That's the width of the new river I've been talking about. And yes, until plans get released or it's built we don't know for definite the width, that's why I'm saying that those claiming it will be insignifcant and small can't be claiming that opinion as a fact. That's my issue with some of these posts, they're claiming speculation as fact, then using that speculation to complain about the project and claim that those of us that are in support of the project are wrong and should be hating it.
The water management is designed with the assumption that the entire Rivers of America is being filled in. The rest is just an issue of spatial relationships. It’s not speculation. You’re not fitting a ride of the size shown and described on just the land area that presently exists. It’s clear from the art and the water management permits. You wanting it to be speculation does not make it so, but it makes the criticisms easier to dismiss out of hand.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Here’s a reminder of how water in concept art can be exaggerated vs. real life.

Water alone isn’t the problem with this expansion of course.
FDD8E95D-5575-4851-882B-DD3D0CD404C8.jpeg
 

Gusey

Well-Known Member
The water management is designed with the assumption that the entire Rivers of America is being filled in. The rest is just an issue of spatial relationships. It’s not speculation. You’re not fitting a ride of the size shown and described on just the land area that presently exists. It’s clear from the art and the water management permits. You wanting it to be speculation does not make it so, but it makes the criticisms easier to dismiss out of hand.
Again, do you have a link?
And again, I've mentioned them getting rid of RoA completely and building a new river. That new river is not speculation, but the size of it is still speculation until it's built. If you are just going to keep ignoring what I'm actually writing, then what is the point of having this discussion. You don't like this project. I do. Let's just leave it at that at this point. But please let us actually discuss this project and the facts that have been presented without constantly being criticised and condescended for liking the project.
 

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