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Disney Genie/Genie+ On Their Way to Anaheim
- Thread starter Californian Elitist
- Start date
Purduevian
Well-Known Member
Interesting to see the effect it had on average standby wait times...
Too Many Hats
Well-Known Member
Fantastic news! The Pirates entranceway is such a charming space; we can finally enjoy it again without two separate lines and all the LL-related chaos.
Looking forward to WDI eventually weaving the extended queue through NOS.
Looking forward to WDI eventually weaving the extended queue through NOS.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
So a negligible effect? Maybe it just affects the patterns more than anything. During no LL, I can see people running to POTC early as opposed to LL where it might be steadier throughout the day.
Too Many Hats
Well-Known Member
The wait times for Pirates are typically pretty inaccurate, right? I feel like during peak times it’ll often say “40 minutes” but I’ll still only wait around 20. I don’t know if we can trust the stats.
I’ll say that it feels like LL has negatively affected waits. It has certainly not helped with NOS crowd flow/chaos.
I’ll say that it feels like LL has negatively affected waits. It has certainly not helped with NOS crowd flow/chaos.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Well just instead of one dedicated line for LL, it'll still be two separate lines but both for standby. And still the same result, a snaking of the line out into NOS proper, as that was still happening prior to LL.
PiratesMansion
Well-Known Member
Still unquestionably superior to one line being LL.
Purduevian
Well-Known Member
Decided to do a little more deep dive. To see how it affected the ride standby time.
I think comparing it to itself wasn't really fair because the park changes so much year over year... so I decided to compare it to Jungle Cruise, a ride in the same area of the park and generally similar wait times.
Basically it looks like LL on average added 2-10 minutes to the posted standby wait time. (pre LL, Pirates averages .94 mins longer wait time than JC. Post LL Pirates averaged 4.3 mins longer than JC)
Oddly taking this off of LL should in theory actually make the crowding in NOS worse.
Lets say pirates without standby has 30 min line. Also lets assume it can push 2800 pph. That means 1400 people are in line. (with 0 in the standby line)
Now with LL it jumps the wait time up to 35 minutes... but 30% of the capacity goes to LL.
Standby now has 35 mins of people in line by are only given 1,960 pph. That means 1143 people are in standby.
Assuming LL has a 10 min wait, and are given the other 840pph. That means 140 people are in the LL.
So with standby only NOS needs to to find room for 1400 people in the pirates line. With LL, it only needs to find space for 1,283 people in the 2 pirates lines. This assume a 10 min LL (which seems high).
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Too Many Hats
Well-Known Member
Definitely. They need to pull the trigger on re-routing the extended queue through NOS, as has been discussed on here the last couple years. Otherwise this will have a negligible impact.
That said, I feel like more than once I’ve seen a situation in the Pirates entranceway where the standby half is full (and extending out into the midway) and the LL is mostly unused. Getting rid of LL will at least prevent that from happening.
PiratesMansion
Well-Known Member
To me, an all-standby line would be superior to a line also serving LL because theoretically it would be easier to eliminate that pesky NOS crowding if that line extending into the square actually received 100% of the line's priority, rather than standing there more stagnant as it might with LL.
All I can say is that during Christmas I did not find waiting in a Pirates standby line that now also had to give priority to LL to be a pleasant experience. An "only ten minutes or so" impact is still an impact. And frankly people were better at splitting into the two lines right under the Pirates entrance marquee than they were at the top of the ramps.
All I can say is that during Christmas I did not find waiting in a Pirates standby line that now also had to give priority to LL to be a pleasant experience. An "only ten minutes or so" impact is still an impact. And frankly people were better at splitting into the two lines right under the Pirates entrance marquee than they were at the top of the ramps.
Purduevian
Well-Known Member
Help me understand your logic that standby only would help eliminate crowding... It's just not computing in my head because 1400 people is 1400 people weather they are moving or not... (not saying you are wrong, it's just not clicking for me)
Even if ~46 people are leaving the line to get on the ride each minute... that would be offset by ~46 people getting into the line each minute.
The same as if (under LL) ~33 people are leaving and entering the line each minute.
The people in the line are fast flowing... but the line length itself is still stagnant.
PiratesMansion
Well-Known Member
A line that moves faster will eliminate crowding in the midway faster.
I'm not computing why it's not computing for you.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Maybe, but as noted by others it seemed to have had in this case a negligible affect as the line still moved fairly quickly even with LL. Which is why I think Disney wasn't quick to remove it.
PiratesMansion
Well-Known Member
Negligible effect does not mean no effect.
I certainly felt the difference and surely I'm not the only one here who did.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
I feel like LL probably made standby waits 5-10 minutes longer on average so not huge but there is something to be said for standing in a line that’s continuously moving. User experience is better. No matter how you look at it, this is a win for folks waiting standby. How much of a win is debatable.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
"Feeling" the difference and there actually being a difference, are obviously two different things. I haven't done a real world trial of if specifically with Pirates, but if you're moving versus standing still but the end result is still the same or almost the same it only "feels" faster when moving even if its not really.
If I do a quick look calc based on what @Purduevian provided it looks like its only an average of like 2-3 minutes longer with LL.
Purduevian
Well-Known Member
Lets see if I can explain it better from my perspective.
Scenario 1 no LL: there is a 30 min standby line at 2:00pm. This means there are ~1400 people in line weaving in and out of the midway. By 2:30pm, everyone in line has been "processes" and ridden the ride. However, in that 30 mins, there will be a constant stream of ~46 people per minute so at 2:30pm, the line still has ~1400 people in line taking up just as much space on the midway.
Scenario 2 w/ LL: there is a 35 min standby line at 2:00pm. This means there are ~1143 people in line taking up space at the midway (assuming LL is taking 30% capacity). 30 minutes later 1,155 people from the standby line have been "processed" and ridden the ride. However, in that 30 mins, there will be a constant stream of ~33 people per minute so at 2:30pm, the line still has ~1143 people in it taking up space on the midway.
The line still takes up the same amount of space in the midway regardless of LL or not.
The rates of people entering the line will always find a balance point because everyone has a different balk point AND people that are riding via LL are not entering the standby line. From my previous post, it is clear that the standby line balances out to about 2-10 mins more with LL than without.
PiratesMansion
Well-Known Member
And I can tell you that I waited more than 2-3 minutes additional with LL added to the queue. It was definitely closer to ten.
You can bring out all the charts to justify making the lines slower for standby guests you want, but I'm not here for it. I'm not going to go around and pretend that the park experience wasn't better when Pirates, Mansion, BLAB, Monsters, Small World, and Little Mermaid didn't have LL. That it only made things "a little worse" in "some cases" is not the same thing as saying it didn't make things worse.
Purduevian
Well-Known Member
Just making sure I understand your point... You are saying to ignore the data and just trust you correct?
If so, I don't think there is anything else to discuss with you and we will have to agree to disagree.
PiratesMansion
Well-Known Member
I'm perfectly happy NOT being the one whipping out charts to defend LL as "not that bad" or "not that big of an impact."