Gusey
Well-Known Member
Or people were overreacting to something that hadn't been confirmed yet and they just decided to clarify?
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MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
Castle Cake Apologist
Well-Known Member
No, sometimes there's just specific? Referring to something taking place in the "past" during our nation's "development from wilderness to civilization" sets a pretty specific window. One that off-road rallying in anthropomorphic cars doesn't fit into whatsoever. Hence their need to hide the attraction from the land in which it resides.
Disney isn't even pretending this fits, why are you guys?
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
That still means they felt there was a need to clarify. If it fits so well it would just be a non-issue.
CoasterCowboy67
Well-Known Member
Yeah we completely disagree
You took the word "past" -- and the ~250 years this country has existed -- and assumed one specific decade
Makes it difficult to proceed, but I'll try- Off-road vehicles have existed since the 1900s (the decade). Cars as an IP takes place 20 years ago
- And that doesn't even matter, because the idea of exploring untamed wilderness is the obvious link to Frontierland. We are not being taken back to the time of pioneers nor do we need to; we are experiencing wilderness unaffected by urban development (aka National Parks) and appreciating an American west that looks awfully similar to what pioneers saw over a hundred years ago. That is the point.
- Song of the South takes place in the South. In rural Georgia. The South is not the West. Georgia was an original colony and never once considered the frontier. By your standards (which again, I completely disagree with) you should have complained about a violation of Frontierland's theme back in 1992 when Splash Mountain opened at MK
- The cartoon point is utterly irrelevant as evidenced by Splash Mountain (again) and the fact we have singing bears in this land already (that opened with the park and Walt Disney had direct input into)
easyrowrdw
Well-Known Member
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
That's funny because Luna Park closed in 1944... So it made such a huge impression that decades after it's demise it was still used as a cultural refernce point because of their abundance of lighting....That is pretty cool.
donaldtoo
Well-Known Member
Yea, this whole thing is gonna’ take a good while, best I can tell. And yes, I’m curious as to how they handle it, as well.
As far as Epcot goes, it took Disney 5 years to build what is, essentially, a park.
Granted, they had to tear down what was already existing, and there was Covus Interruptus, but still pretty ridiculous, based on what we got.
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Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
The 2023 EPCOT renovation will make a huge impression for generations to come because of BROKEN lighting.
TheMaxRebo
Well-Known Member
Covid obviously played a huge part but still was a maze of walls for far too long
TheRealSkull
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
Pretty sure it's why people are estimating a 2029 opening, right? In a perfect world, this could be open sometime in 2028.
TheMaxRebo
Well-Known Member
3 years, given all the water management aspects I think would be pretty quick
Plus I suspect they will want to stagger the big openings
Tropical Americas: 2027
Monstropolis: 2028
Piston Peak: 2029
Villains Land: 2030
But maybe they can go faster and get Villains done late 2029 and Piston Peak late 2028 with Monstropolis early 2028
TheRealSkull
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
If Disney keeps the promise made at last year’s expo, everything should be completed by 2029. Ideally, the new lands will open in a staggered rollout, allowing each area to shine. While it’s unlikely that both the Cars-themed land and the Villains land will debut simultaneously, it would be incredible if they did. When Cars Land and Buena Vista Street opened together at Disney California Adventure, it really provided a level of excitement that hasn't been felt in a while at the parks. A dual opening at Magic Kingdom could generate that same level of enthusiasm. It's sad they probably won't do that, but we do live in two different eras. 2012 felt more relaxed with the simple days of FastPass and no park reservations, while 2025 feels more planned, optimized, and data-driven. I wish we could go back to the days where we didn't have to be on our phones to plan every little thing out.
I think something that could somewhat fix this, and probably they'll have to do, is keeping the parks open later. I'm hoping to see the days come back where Magic Kingdom is open til midnight. Crowds will be more manageable.
Something small, but worth saying: ever since the parks became so tech-dependent, people just seem… more stressed. I remember my first trip in 2013. The guests looked happier and there was just this overall lighter energy in the air. Now, I see more visible frustration: guests snapping at each other, complaining, and shutting down kind cast members. The vibe has shifted.
A big part of that shift, I believe, is due to the overreliance on technology. You can’t really visit the parks anymore without a smartphone. I'm in my 20s, and my dad, who vowed never to own one accomplished a Disney vacation every year from 2013-2019 without one. It's something he liked to brag about, but post-COVID, he eventually had to cave. Not for texting or calling, but just to enter the parks and book his experiences. Thankfully, he adapted, but not everyone can or wants to. Disney used to be a place where the day could unfold with spontaneity. Now, it really feels more like a checklist. It feels like we are tapping into our phones constantly.
That’s really the root of my hesitation with this whole closure. The Liberty Belle and Tom Sawyer Island used to be these detours you could stumble into on a whim. There were no long lines, no Individual Lightning Lanes to purchase, no strategy at all. But these days, nearly every moment feels like it comes with a price tag or a countdown timer.
And while I know I’ll still enjoy these new experiences when they open, I can’t help but feel like it won't fix the problem. The frustrating thing is that Cars and Villains have the potential to be really great. But Disney needs to fix the guest experience, or it won't work. The less reliance on tech, the better off we will be. Maybe one day we can return to these days.
Sorry, rant over, but thank you.
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donaldtoo
Well-Known Member
Yeah we completely disagree
You took the word "past" -- and the ~250 years this country has existed -- and assumed one specific decade
- Off-road vehicles have existed since the 1900s (the decade). Cars as an IP takes place 20 years ago
- And that doesn't even matter, because the idea of exploring untamed wilderness is the obvious link to Frontierland. We are not being taken back to the time of pioneers nor do we need to; we are experiencing wilderness unaffected by urban development (aka National Parks) and appreciating an American west that looks awfully similar to what pioneers saw over a hundred years ago. That is the point.
- Song of the South takes place in the South. In rural Georgia. The South is not the West. Georgia was an original colony and never once considered the frontier. By your standards (which again, I completely disagree with) you should have complained about a violation of Frontierland's theme back in 1992 when Splash Mountain opened at MK
- The cartoon point is utterly irrelevant as evidenced by Splash Mountain (again) and the fact we have singing bears in this land already (that opened with the park and Walt Disney had direct input into)
I’ll try too, although I know it won’t do any good.
I did not assume one specific decade, I clearly posted 1870’s-ish several times. Mid-late 1860’s through 1880’s seems to be the original, general time period.
The only off road vehicles that existed 1870’s-ish were horse-drawn wagons, so I’m not sure what that has to do with anything about this discussion.
You even acknowledged in the second paragraph of your last post that the original intent of Frontierland was…
“Did original attractions refer to specific years (1870s) and specific places West of the Mississippi? Absolutely.”
As to your second point…
US National Parks/wilderness polluted and ravaged by modern off-road racing…yea, that doesn’t sound very “green” (like Disney claims it is) or make sense.
Regarding your 3rd point…
Yes, Tony Baxter (who I admire) is to blame for this. But, as per similar to CBJ, they just had to reuse those darn “America Sings” critters somewhere. Splash was, obviously, not an original Frontierland attraction, but at least they got the time period correct (1870’s), and the cartoon characters from SotS were based on actual folklore. In that regard, I have less of an issue with it.
TBA in Frontierland is much more of an issue in regard to time period.
As to your last point…
Modern cartoon off-road vehicles in Frontierland is relevant to me. Especially because of what they’re taking out to accommodate it.
Again, CBJ was never, originally, intended for Frontierland. Walt and Marc Davis were both heavily involved in its development, but it was originally intended for the proposed Mineral King Ski Resort, which was announced in 1966, but wasn’t officially cancelled until 1978.
They didn’t want to abandon the idea, so they put it in Frontierland, where yes, it doesn’t really belong.
We’ll just agree to disagree.
Architectural Guinea Pig
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
The Frontierland time period debate is very stale and repetitive. Just like all the other lands, there is no “set” time period for the land- instead, it’s designed around the growth of America’s frontier, not the Wild West (Big Thunder Mountain also takes place in the late 1800s in the Gold Rush so the 1780 thing or whatever is completely untrue).
I posted this image before, I’ll post it again. If it takes some of you guys to see a visual representation to understand where you may be incorrect, here it is.
Each area of Frontierland contains an almost fantastical interpretation of its real life American historical counterparts, from singing bears to ghost trains and whatnot. Cars actually expands on the concept perfectly, showing the National Parks era of America, where rally racing was a real thing even in the past. If you notice the map time in the land goes forward in a clockwise direction, with each area building further than before- all going further “west.”
It might not be intentional, but seeing it in this perspective actually shows how interesting the new Cars area will be and add to Frontierland’s story.
I posted this image before, I’ll post it again. If it takes some of you guys to see a visual representation to understand where you may be incorrect, here it is.
Each area of Frontierland contains an almost fantastical interpretation of its real life American historical counterparts, from singing bears to ghost trains and whatnot. Cars actually expands on the concept perfectly, showing the National Parks era of America, where rally racing was a real thing even in the past. If you notice the map time in the land goes forward in a clockwise direction, with each area building further than before- all going further “west.”
It might not be intentional, but seeing it in this perspective actually shows how interesting the new Cars area will be and add to Frontierland’s story.
CoasterCowboy67
Well-Known Member
Huh? This is a Frontierland expansion, not a new Cars Land. If they didn’t think it fit, they could’ve easily said it was the latter.
The “past” and “from wilderness to civilization” are about as specific of a time period as “tomorrow” — how anyone would assume this means 1870s Utah and Arizona.
This land opened with singing bears. Off road rallying cars set in the American frontier fit just fine. The proposed expansion isn’t even remotely hidden — it’s almost entirely outdoors. That they’ve positioned the mountain and ride a certain way, and blended scenery with existing structures, is taking a thoughtful approach. Not hiding.
CoasterCowboy67
Well-Known Member
Love this. Hadn’t seen it. I agree that the realism and time period arguments are stale. If they ever existed, they were abandoned on opening day of the park and Walt’s own direct input into what should be in the land. So I don’t get the point to hold Cars to this nonexistent standard
mattpeto
Well-Known Member
Remember so many people thought Frontierland was getting cut completely?
From January 9th 2024, the parks blog was trying to tell us: "But hold your horses, we’re not done yet. We have a lot of growth and investment planned for our theme parks in the coming years and look forward to sharing more announcements about Frontierland … so y’all come back now, ya hear?"
disneyparksblog.com
From January 9th 2024, the parks blog was trying to tell us: "But hold your horses, we’re not done yet. We have a lot of growth and investment planned for our theme parks in the coming years and look forward to sharing more announcements about Frontierland … so y’all come back now, ya hear?"
New Details About Country Bear Musical Jamboree and More - Disney Parks Blog
The Country Bear Musical Jamboree is getting ready to put on a new show for you and will close temporarily beginning Jan. 27 to prepare. Plus, learn more about what’s coming to Walt Disney World’s Frontierland in 2024!
disneyparksblog.com
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, the country bears will exist well after Frontierland is erased from existence.
DavidDL
Well-Known Member
I will say that I can appreciate that the newest concept art places a heavier emphasis on water features and exploratory areas that were seemingly absent or minimized in earlier reveals. I also appreciate that they took the time to mention that sightlines will be a factor that they are taking seriously with this change.
Since the project is inevitable, my main concern now is how they will handle the execution of the Cars attraction being next door to Haunted Mansion. The originally revealed art seems to indicate they considered this sightline with a walkway and series of trees between Mansion's queue and the new Cars area, but the most recently shared work is a bit more stylized and vague, foregoing the trees in this area for the "Welcome to Piston Peak" banner.
Probably overthinking the stylized nature of the second piece of art. I have to believe sightlines from (and of) the Mansion would be among those given special attention on this project. It would be a travesty to have to endure anything Cars-related while in line for one of Disney's finest attractions.
Since the project is inevitable, my main concern now is how they will handle the execution of the Cars attraction being next door to Haunted Mansion. The originally revealed art seems to indicate they considered this sightline with a walkway and series of trees between Mansion's queue and the new Cars area, but the most recently shared work is a bit more stylized and vague, foregoing the trees in this area for the "Welcome to Piston Peak" banner.
Probably overthinking the stylized nature of the second piece of art. I have to believe sightlines from (and of) the Mansion would be among those given special attention on this project. It would be a travesty to have to endure anything Cars-related while in line for one of Disney's finest attractions.
CoasterCowboy67
Well-Known Member
I’ll just say…it’s pretty bold of you to say Walt Disney himself made a mistake putting Country Bears in Frontierland. That’s the kind of unfounded purism Disney (the company today) will never be able to satisfy
Rather than adjust your definition of Frontierland to accommodate its creator's choices, you're saying the creator himself was wrong
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