MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[DisneyHead123]

I just wanted to pull this quote out, this was not the case.

The problem is we had a number of fake insiders peddling Disney’s own old plans. It’s classically what occurs before every conference. The most last minute project was pulling the Monsters Coaster off the shelf six months prior to the conference. Just the attraction, the rest of the land still wasn’t fully formulated. Cars was a good 12-18 months developed by the time of D23; it wasn’t last minute.

The prior “plans” for beyond big thunder were thrown together last minute as an audience test balloon.

Now, they thought about this for a while and picked this option probably irks you more.

I thought @marni1971 confirmed this? I don’t track all the various levels of insider-ness but I’m pretty sure he or she is one of the few who typically have solid information.

Apologies to Marni if I’m misremembering.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I tried saying this last part to my wife last night and she said I was crazy and got annoyed. Perhaps I am not as articulate…

To keep it on topic, this is about Rivers specifically.

I can see how this would come across as silly if you’re not super familiar with parks history and initially it sounded like “Disney World is just as important as the Washington Monument!” (Not saying this is what you said, just that this could be an initial impression.) It’s an argument that definitely needs some backstory. But I do think there’s a case to be made that Disneyland and World are huge pieces of American history and culture.

For example, I imagine there would be outcry if the Coney Island Amusement Park was torn down to put in a lux gym and sports facility, with the argument that “really, more people would enjoy playing pickleball on the first class new courts or swimming in the Olympic sized pool.” If Graceland was torn down for Swiftieland, because lots of kids aren’t into Elvis these days. If the rides at Navy Pier were replaced with a giant VR arcade because kids these days like virtual reality, not swings. (And those examples of entertainment based sites are probably much less notable in national history than the Disney parks.)

Rivers is a piece of American history. Thankfully it still exists at Disneyland, but I do think it’s fair to say it’s, again, historically significant.

 

[donaldtoo]

Guess we shall see - to me it is now the equivalent of North America Adventureland while regular Adventureland covers rest of the world

Yes it is definitely different than the original plan for it - which either can be accepted or not & but I think big difference b/w broadening to include "National Parks" and "Outer space" but maybe those are equivalent to you

Yes, we will see.
Another thing that concerns me is how long the ROA/TSI area will be under development / construction.
Another member had mentioned in a post, several pages back, that it all won’t be finished until, at least, 2029. Since it’s Disney, and we all know how projected timelines tend to go with them, it could easily be a coupla’ years beyond that, maybe more.
Even if it is 2029, that’s still a pretty darn long time to have the whole ROA/TSI area down and useless, not to mention (with the “elevations” another poster mentioned - you can only build construction walls so high) the eyesore it’ll be for that whole time.

Also, there is not one single US National Park that allows off-road racing within their boundaries, so I’m not sure why national Parks keep being mentioned…?

As far as Star Trek and “Space: the final frontier” goes, I was just being facetious to try and make a point.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

Quote from Walt Disney himself at the Disneyland dedication ceremony:


Like every other land at Magic Kingdom, Frontierland is not and never has been about a specific decade or zip code. Frontierland is and always has been about ideas -- "faith, courage, and ingenuity" -- taught to us by a broader time and place in history -- America beyond its original European settlements (which are already represented by Liberty Square). When you walk into Frontierland, you're quite literally heading west from polished colonial settlements into rougher untamed wilderness.

Did original attractions refer to specific years (1870s) and specific places West of the Mississippi? Absolutely. But that is just part of immersing us in specific stories. Jungle Cruise and Pirates of the Caribbean take us to wildly different time periods, and they do so purposefully to give us genuine-feeling experiences, but they exist together in a land that covers an even broader set of places and times that still feel extremely cohesive around core ideas.

Frontierland can have individual experiences take us to specific times/places to support the broader ideas Walt Disney described above without restricting them. Riding off-road vehicles through "wilderness trails and roads" is absolutely consistent Frontierland and the pioneer feeling of venturing into uncharted/wild terrain, and gives us a different lens into its core ideas beyond the 1870s (which Splash Mountain / TBA expanded and re-expanded decades ago)

I think that Disney's push for IP lands has gotten people trained to think lands need to be about one ultra specific time, place, story, and set of characters. Disney's original lands were much deeper in concept, and I for one appreciate we're not getting "Cars Land" at Magic Kingdom, but rather, an expansion of Frontierland which are very different things.

I particularly enjoyed how you completely ignored the parts of the dedication that place it in a specific time period to say that it was never about a specific time period.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Another thing that concerns me is how long the ROA/TSI area will be under development / construction.

Definitely agree with that part and am really interested in how they handle it.

Even if they are aggressive with construction that is still going to be a couple of years potentially with walls up all along that pathway .... Hopefully they have a plan so it doesn't feel like how the center of Epcot felt

 

[CoasterCowboy67]

I particularly enjoyed how you completely ignored the parts of the dedication that place it in a specific time period.

Except I didn't. There is "specific" and there is "uber-specific" and I don't know what you think that dedication speech says or not

Does it place the land in every place in the world and every time period ever? Obviously not.

Does it place the land specifically in Utah or Arizona in the 1870s? Obviously not.

Does it place the land in "America as it developed", "our country's past", and "from wilderness trails to roads"? Yes, which is consistent with, and the point of, my entire message. These are specific, yes, but also much broader than many here think Frontierland rigidly needs to be

 

[donaldtoo]

How dismissive. It was certainly a perspective shared by the people who created the damn place.

Imagine saying this to Walt Disney, who most definitely understood that they were creating art of cultural significance. Or John Hench, who wrote an entire book about it.

I have the John Hench book, and it’s great.
Also, to add to the art thought, there was an article written by a fellow named Joseph Wood Krutch in The New Yorker, back in 1955.
He first visited with extreme skepticism, but, by the time he left he was enthralled with it all, and had a whole new perspective.
He referred to Disneyland as a whole new, wonderful art form, or something to that effect (I tried to find the article, but no dice).
He ended up having great respect for Walt, and what he had created.
It is unfortunate, IMO, that more folks don’t see it that way.

 

[lazyboy97o]

For example, I imagine there would be outcry if the Coney Island Amusement Park was torn down to put in a lux gym and sports facility, with the argument that “really, more people would enjoy playing pickleball on the first class new courts or swimming in the Olympic sized pool.” If Graceland was torn down for Swiftieland, because lots of kids aren’t into Elvis these days. If the rides at Navy Pier were replaced with a giant VR arcade because kids these days like virtual reality, not swings. (And those examples of entertainment based sites are probably much less notable in national history than the Disney parks.)

Coney Island in New York has never been a single park. Its golden age consisted of three parks, none of which survive to this day. Much of their site’s former footprint has been redeveloped including a baseball stadium and swimming pools were major attractions that were removed.

Coney Island in Ohio, which was a singular park, was relocated in the 70s to become Kings Island. It reopened, but recently contracted operations to just swimming and is now currently closed for redevelopment.

Graceland is a house.

 

[aladdin2007]

Yes, we will see.
Another thing that concerns me is how long the ROA/TSI area will be under development / construction.
Another member had mentioned in a post, several pages back, that it all won’t be finished until, at least, 2029. Since it’s Disney, and we all know how projected timelines tend to go with them, it could easily be a coupla’ years beyond that, maybe more.
Even if it is 2029, that’s still a pretty darn long time to have the whole ROA/TSI area down and useless, not to mention (with the “elevations” another poster mentioned - you can only build construction walls so high) the eyesore it’ll be for that whole time.

Also, there is not one single US National Park that allows off-road racing within their boundaries, so I’m not sure why national Parks keep being mentioned…?

As far as Star Trek and “Space: the final frontier” goes, I was just being facetious to try and make a point.

Disney's poor use of justification

 

[DisneyHead123]

Coney Island in New York has never been a single park. Its golden age consisted of three parks, none of which survive to this day. Much of their site’s former footprint has been redeveloped including a baseball stadium and swimming pools were major attractions that were removed.

I was under the impression that whatever is there now is still considered fairly iconic, but I’m not a New Yorker so my bad if that’s incorrect. I probably got that impression from a sappy movie at some point.

Graceland is a house.

I would still file it under “entertainment” but I’m not invested enough for a semantic haggle.

Genuine question - did you have an overarching point or are you just a stickler for details? Either is fine, just not sure.

 

[the_rich]

I was under the impression that whatever is there now is still considered fairly iconic, but I’m not a New Yorker so my bad if that’s incorrect. I probably got that impression from a sappy movie at some point.



I would still file it under “entertainment” but I’m not invested enough for a semantic haggle.

Genuine question - did you have an overarching point or are you just a stickler for details? Either is fine, just not sure.

It's Luna Park at Coney Island and it's terrible. $100 for the day and so not worth it.

 

[DisneyHead123]

It's Luna Park at Coney Island and it's terrible. $100 for the day and so not worth it.

What a bummer to hear!

 

[donaldtoo]

Quote from Walt Disney himself at the Disneyland dedication ceremony:


Like every other land at Magic Kingdom, Frontierland is not and never has been about a specific decade or zip code. Frontierland is and always has been about ideas -- "faith, courage, and ingenuity" -- taught to us by a broader time and place in history -- America beyond its original European settlements (which are already represented by Liberty Square). When you walk into Frontierland, you're quite literally heading west from polished colonial settlements into rougher untamed wilderness.

Did original attractions refer to specific years (1870s) and specific places West of the Mississippi? Absolutely. But that is just part of immersing us in specific stories. Jungle Cruise and Pirates of the Caribbean take us to wildly different time periods, and they do so purposefully to give us genuine-feeling experiences, but they exist together in a land that covers an even broader set of places and times that still feel extremely cohesive around core ideas.

Frontierland can have individual experiences take us to specific times/places to support the broader ideas Walt Disney described above without restricting them. Riding off-road vehicles through "wilderness trails and roads" is absolutely consistent Frontierland and the pioneer feeling of venturing into uncharted/wild terrain, and gives us a different lens into its core ideas beyond the 1870s (which Splash Mountain / TBA expanded and re-expanded decades ago)

I think that Disney's push for IP lands has gotten people trained to think lands need to be about one ultra specific time, place, story, and set of characters. Disney's original lands were much deeper in concept, and I for one appreciate we're not getting "Cars Land" at Magic Kingdom, but rather, an expansion of Frontierland which are very different things.

We’re just going to completely disagree.

As far as the Walt dedication quote goes…
“It is here that we experience our country’s PAST…“ The past has exactly ZERO to do with modern day off-road racing.
The only word in there that might throw some off a bit, based on my assertion that it was all about 1870’s-ish frontier America, is road. The fact is, wagon trails were referred to as roads back then.

As to your first paragraph…
I didn’t name a specific decade…I posted 1870’s-ish. And, of course, zip codes didn’t exist back then.
Yes, from the original European settlements into rougher untamed wilderness…old west frontier.

As far as Adventureland, Fantasyland and Tomorrowland go, I already mentioned, in another post, how they were all non-time specific.
Frontierland, IMO, sets itself squarely in the 1870’s-ish American frontier west, and no other time period.

It’s not riding off road vehicles through the wilderness, it’s an off-road race/rally, with anthropomorphic, CGI cartoon cars, no less.
Again (from anther post of mine), there is not one single US National Park that allows any kind of sanctioned off-road racing within its boundaries.
I mention this because National Parks have been mentioned many times on this thread.
Granted, some National Parks do allow off-road vehicles, but their use is very limited and strictly enforced.
As far as Splash and TBA go…
Splash was based on characters from Song of the South. The movie was set in the post Civil War Reconstruction era…specifically, the 1870’s.
TBA is set in 1920’s NOLA, which has absolutely nothing to do with the old west frontier.

Yep, completely disagree.
The original Frontierland was set up to be time specific, sans CBJ, but, again they felt the need to put it somewhere after Mineral King was cancelled, and Frontierland made the most sense.
The off-road racing will be a replacement, not an expansion.
Cartoon cars off-road race/rally in 1870’s old west Frontierland…still SMH………..

 

[lazyboy97o]

I was under the impression that whatever is there now is still considered fairly iconic, but I’m not a New Yorker so my bad if that’s incorrect. I probably got that impression from a sappy movie at some point.



I would still file it under “entertainment” but I’m not invested enough for a semantic haggle.

Genuine question - did you have an overarching point or are you just a stickler for details? Either is fine, just not sure.

You’re not really helping the point of places being historically and culturally significant if you don’t really know anything about them.

It's Luna Park at Coney Island and it's terrible. $100 for the day and so not worth it.

Luna Park is the big park, owned by Zamperla that also has the contract with the City to operate the Cyclone, but there’s also Deno’s Wonder Wheel Park and a few small, independent attractions

 

[DisneyHead123]

You’re not really helping the point of places being historically and culturally significant if you don’t really know anything about them.

Again, your point as it relates to this thread?

 

[easyrowrdw]

Splash Mountain (talking animated animals in the South) right next to Big Thunder Mountain (ghost town mine train in Utah/Arizona) was already a "clash" nobody cared about or potentially even realized because the concepts were executed flawlessly and the styles were realized in a complementary way.

I rode Splash for years and never considered (until reading it here) that it was supposed to be in the South. It looked and felt perfectly in line with the old west/frontier to me. Tiana's is fine, but it doesn't feel like it fits that theme to me.

With the Cars expansion of Frontierland, it seems as though the new mountain and river/creek will serve as a natural buffer from a lot of existing attractions. If you look at the latest art, the Cars ride appears to go through a canyon / geyser-filled area around where Big Thunder is so that the visuals and transitions are complementary

We'll see what it looks like. Different views from different sides seems like it will difficult to pull off given that cars land will apparently be "open" on all sides (you can walk all the way around it)

 

[TheMaxRebo]

We'll see what it looks like. Different views from different sides seems like it will difficult to pull off given that cars land will apparently be "open" on all sides (you can walk all the way around it)

It will be open but I am encouraged by the last concept art release when they talked a lot about sightlines (especially coming into the area via Liberty Square) and noise bleed (specifically mentioning when near Haunted Mansion

So yeah, when on the back side definitely will see cars going around but when by Haunted Mansion or by Country Bears, etc, likely really just see the vista and the running water and the like and no cars ... will come down to actual execution but that is the idea

 

[JD80]

Legit question and I don’t mean this in a snarky way; but why do you and your family still stay at the resort properties; having seen the subtraction of value offset by the additional costs the past few years?

The price of a Value resort at WDW is one of the most consistent things over the last 30 years.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I rode Splash for years and never considered (until reading it here) that it was supposed to be in the South. It looked and felt perfectly in line with the old west/frontier to me. Tiana's is fine, but it doesn't feel like it fits that theme to me.

Because the aesthetics of the attraction were modified for the Magic Kingdom to be more western. Everything from the color palette to the music was adjusted compared to the Disneyland attraction.

It will be open but I am encouraged by the last concept art release when they talked a lot about sightlines (especially coming into the area via Liberty Square) and noise bleed (specifically mentioning when near Haunted Mansion

So yeah, when on the back side definitely will see cars going around but when by Haunted Mansion or by Country Bears, etc, likely really just see the vista and the running water and the like and no cars ... will come down to actual execution but that is the idea

If you feel the need to hide something, and reassure people that you’re going to hide it, then it probably doesn’t fit all that well.

 

[MisterPenguin]

[Growing up in the greater NYC area.]

Kids leave lights on all around the house.

Parents coming in and shutting off the lights, "What do you think this is, Luna Park?"

They never took us to Luna Park, so none of us understood the reference.