Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!

[flynnibus]

Have a stay scheduled for January at Shades of Green will be doing Universal have no desire for WDW appears Universal has WDW beat on admission price another plus

Why stay at the SoG if only doing Uni? That's a lot of commute and potential expense for that venue. SoG is nice to be onsite, but if not focused onsite, you should be able to do way better up I4... unless you are getting like the "I was just an E3" price from MWR

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Before morphing into a general audience service, Disney+'s clientele at the start were 60% homes without children.

It only made sense at that point to switch from family (kids) to general (adults and kids).

I agree it was a very smart business decision, I also think it kind of highlights the risk of a future nostalgia problem though, Disney adults are diehard Disney fans, I’m not sure Disney is creating enough new diehard fans to replace us.

ETA we often notice how out of balance the demographics are at DL, I’d say we see probably 9 adults for every kid, that could just highlight the economics of who can afford it but it also could highlight who it appeals to.

Price and value are two different things.

So Universal is more expensive than Disney. I wonder how long it will be before the media starts complaining about that.

Quoted both these posts because they both brought about the same question and I don’t know the answer… does Epic offer/require a form of multi ride pass / individual ride pass to make the park manageable?

I ask because we loved our last WDW trip (with $100 a day of LL extras) but that also drastically changed the price of the ticket. As a rare WDW visitor I can’t imagine going to WDW without paying for LL so I view it as a mandatory part of the price, that also vastly changes the value ratio though.

 

[flynnibus]

And I speak in terms of success for Universal and shift in current market share that is obvious to see the venture a success

And now you are making market share conclusions based on just seeing UNI's ticket sales?

That's not how any of this works...

 

[celluloid]

And now you are making market share conclusions based on just seeing UNI's ticket sales?

That's not how any of this works...

Just? No. In part. Well duh. They have a brand new product and people spending as much on their other offerings while their new one has not had issue. No sign of cannibalization yet.

The laws of Supply and demand itself tell something.
You can also check out Thrill Data and such in the mean time.
Disney selling their three days for about half the price of Uni's three days tells you something.

The main competition showed their cards here the second WALT DISNEY WORLD in SUMMER to have a campaign and extra budgeted events called Cool Kid Summer.

The second Disney had to market to remind families there is a lot to see there and worth checking put this Summer...is all you need to look to to know the impact vs what Josh says and hopes people could do woth enticement.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Quoted both these posts because they both brought about the same question and I don’t know the answer… does Epic offer/require a form of multi ride pass / individual ride pass to make the park manageable?

I ask because we loved our last WDW trip (with $100 a day of LL extras) but that also drastically changed the price of the ticket. As a rare WDW visitor I can’t imagine going to WDW without paying for LL so I view it as a mandatory part of the price.

It depends on how much they continue to restrict attendance. The park has the least attraction capacity of the three Universal Orlando Resort theme parks.

 

[celluloid]

Dude, you doubled down... then started backtracking and then put the goal posts on your back. I read the discussion... it was rediculous assertions and why I even said something. Don't try to flip this on me.



Do I? No, you were the one who compared Epic's opening to everything since MK. Reap what you sow. You make redonkulus hypothesis... people are going to test it and show it's flaws. You doubled down on EPCOT selling 'discount' admission as some sort of filter... so you get an example that again debunks your theory without that filter constraint. That's how logic works.


So now you are claiming EPIC should only be compared to parks that must
1) have other parks near by
2) can not offer multi-day discounts
3) must not allow employee admissions
How about ones that only can be open 10-10 too? You're response to the flaws in your claim is to simply keep applying filters so the only answer that can matter is your predisposed conclusion. It's a horrible look.


'relative venture'? You mean "when you only compare what I want you to compare..."


How does smaller capacity make selling out harder??


Because ITS BRAND FREAKING NEW??


Because its BRAND FREAKING NEW?

Because its BRAND FREAKING NEW? And a major draw as a whole new theme park??


Any other I'd offer, you'd just respond with another new screening requirement.



Why the hard on for 'third park' now as some major criteria? The population going right now don't care if it's 1 or 10 parks.. They are going because of what EPIC is offering itself. 1,3,5, whatever is about length of stay and creating the initial draw. Central FL already has the initial draw. UNI is exclusing Epic from any practical length of stay computations. The whole third park thing is about UNI increasing it's hotels and overall days per guest... not about if people are interested in seeing Epic. Because... ITS BRAND FREAKING NEW.

And third park? Are you now going back on the company line that Volcano bay has been their 3rd park for how many years now? Funny how that lingo suddenly changed... The whole 'first theme park opening in...' thing must have been beat into every influencer's head in their sessions because nearly every single one droned on that same talking point. Either, they are all too young to remember anything, or they were lapping up the talking points. There have been other theme park openings.. just none in their backyard.


Yeah, let's compare the BRAND FREAKING NEW park that almost no one has been to... to the parks that after 30+ years... most people have at least been to before. Yeah.. totally the same thing!

This is an wild take. WDW's third park, MGM never had 20,000 paying people in it daily in its firs year ever, and that was Disney's third park pre Uni competition. IOA and Animal Kingdom in late 90s never did either. DCA of course did not.

I don't have to flip it. The thing I said remains true. There are just people that do not like it.

And with this, even if you don't like the compaison, you would admit market share shifting yet try to rip on that later
Stay in your lane and like others pretend you don't remember me calling out months ago attendance for this park would eventually go above 30,000 cap daily as it is not s low as many wished, because they wish I'll.


And brand new is irrelevant. A lot of new thing flop.

 

[flynnibus]

Just? No. In part. Well duh. They have a brand new product and people spending as much on their other offerings while their new one has not had issue. No sign of cannibalization yet.

The laws of Supply and demand itself tell something.
You can also check out Thrill Data and such in the mean time.
Disney selling their three days for about half the price of Uni's three days tells you something.

Dude, conclusions based on data in isolation is a classic fail.

You're talking about supply and demand.. and canabalization in a market that is completely constrained right now with a product that is brand new and dis-similar. People concluding bigger trends from these bespoke conditions would be foolish.

The second Disney had to remind d families there is a lot to see there and worth checking put this Summer...is all you need to look to to know the impact vs what Josh says and hopes people could do woth enticement.

Disney's summer season and their demand shaping over the full year is not a game they are going to stop, flip, and pivot over trying to react to EPIC's opening. This is the difference between Disney working on the big picture while you are looking at a 6 week timeframe.

 

[celluloid]

Dude, conclusions based on data in isolation is a classic fail.

You're talking about supply and demand.. and canabalization in a market that is completely constrained right now with a product that is brand new and dis-similar. People concluding bigger trends from these bespoke conditions would be foolish.


Disney's summer season and their demand shaping over the full year is not a game they are going to stop, flip, and pivot over trying to react to EPIC's opening. This is the difference between Disney working on the big picture while you are looking at a 6 week timeframe.

This only logically checks put of their competition also does not focus on the big picture, wich we know woth their aggressive Investments they are not.

Take the L here. Epic has more people paying that ticket daily than Disney's parks, and people have a hard time accepting how great that is for the park, and unheard of since MK. Every other park since has had add on Incentives to extreme discounted stays for parks two and three. Passholders, length of stay tickets with a few bucks by days three and four, and thousands of CP/CMs and their family/friend comp passes in daily.


EPIC has not had to do this at all.for it's first season.
All guests are in paying above that 139 and making those ancillary purchases like they will habe to pay that to come back, which until that demand dips...they do.

 

[flynnibus]

This is an wild take. WDW's third park, MGM never had 20,000 paying people in it daily in its firs year ever, and that was Disney's third park pre Uni competition. IOA and Animal Kingdom in late 90s never did either. DCA of course did not.

So again.. you keep only comparing to what you want to compare to based on criteria to filter out the ones that challenge your assertion.

MGM was a small park, but a key part of a puzzle that drove WDW from two parks with just 5 hotels to a mega property with nearly a dozen more hotels, additional parks, and more in the following decade.

Stop staring at your toes and look at the path ahead.

 

[celluloid]

Does anyone know if Universal released a coffee table book about the development of EU?

That would be cool in the future. As of now, no. Books habe a lower profit margin compared to volume of other things to sale.

The 45 dollar Dark Universe Vinyl has been selling dang well.
And the dragon eggs.

 

[celluloid]

So again.. you keep only comparing to what you want to compare to based on criteria to filter out the ones that challenge your assertion.

MGM was a small park, but a key part of a puzzle that drove WDW from two parks with just 5 hotels to a mega property with nearly a dozen more hotels, additional parks, and more in the following decade.

Stop staring at your toes and look at the path ahead.

Almost like Uni also just built a set of hotels with EPIC...after opening more than four in the last 10 years.


What kind of ahead is in store for the path(broken light filled and overspent) at EPCOT?

 

[flynnibus]

Take the L here. Epic has more people paying that ticket daily than Disney's parks, and people have a hard time accepting how great that is for the park, and unheard of since MK. Every other park since has had add on Incentives to extreme discounted stays for parks two and three. Passholders, length of stay tickets with a few bucks by days three and four, and thousands of CP/CMs and their family/friend comp passes in daily.

Tell me you don't understand the scheme without telling me you don't understand the scheme...

You think Disney is sweating giving away multi-day gate discounts while collecting hundreds of dollars in spend per head for that extra day? Or fearing EPIC selling full price tickets while Disney is milking people to pay $25/pp to ride a ride once... across thousands of riders per day, across multiple parks?

Once again you are declaring success by focusing on your own elevated metric - while being obtuse that others are not hanging on that same metric as you are.

 

[flynnibus]

EPIC has not had to do this at all.for it's first season.
All guests are in paying above that 139 and making those ancillary purchases like they will habe to pay that to come back, which until that demand dips...they do.

So you're gonna face everyone saying "EPIC demand is collapsing!!!" as soon as Epic shifts to the normal bundling and multi-day strategy we all know the resort will shift to. You're setting yourself up for failure with this ridiculous assertion that being able to sell full day tickets is the be-all measure of success.

 

[celluloid]

So you're gonna face everyone saying "EPIC demand is collapsing!!!" as soon as Epic shifts to the normal bundling and multi-day strategy we all know the resort will shift to. You're setting yourself up for failure with this ridiculous assertion that being able to sell full day tickets is the be-all measure of success.

Collapsing? Why would a natural novelty and demand leveling enough to say go time to let more in be collapsing? I also never stated.it is the only measure of success. My point was no park in Central FL has been able to do this for this long since MK. So, you finally agree.

Uni will smartly ride the demand for as long as possible, as we know any smart major theme park leadership would have it.

Why is it always extremes with you?

 

[Disney Analyst]

Apparently monsters is in rough shape. Many figures not working.

Curse of the advanced aa’s strikes again.

 

[celluloid]

Apparently monsters is in rough shape. Many figures not working.

Curse of the advanced aa’s strikes again.

Morning hours of early park admission are not going to be maintenance's friend for these sorts of things as time goes on.

 

[flynnibus]

Collapsing? Why would a natural novelty and demand leveling enough to say go time to let more in be collapsing?

Because it's the narrative you have created. The other parks you can't consider successful because they didn't do this one thing.. so when your own park no longer does that one thing... well you created the comparison yourself.

I also never stated.it is the only measure of success. My point was no park in Central FL has been able to do this for this long since MK.

If that's your point, then your ability to communicate it is is pi$$ poor. If you said that from the start... no one would have cared because it's basically saying "Epic's opening offer is successfully drawing in customers, regardless of price" and no one would have batted an eye Instead you come up with this grandeous greatest in 50yrs non-sense based on a contrived metric that you repeatedly misapply as a standard of lack of success else where because they CHOSE a different model.

No one said "Damn this EPCOT opening thing isn't strong enough... let's offer multi-day discounts to make sure we can get customers!". Yet that's the narrative you're spinning now to justify putting UNI's strategy on a pedestal.

 

[celluloid]

Because it's the narrative you have created. The other parks you can't consider successful because they didn't do this one thing.. so when your own park no longer does that one thing... well you created the comparison yourself.

You can stop right here.

Plenty understood what I said. You don't have to go and call my communication the issue. (Circumventing the censorship here with characters, particularly to insult me directly is a big no no here)


The point has remained the same. People try and shift it to me bashing that Disney, EPCOT, MGM and Animal Kingdom(and any other theme park if you want to) can't be successful. Never said that.

MK and EPCOT had two day passport discounted second day since 1981. They definitely allowed Cast Members in. They wanted those people to come in and spend money. Parks would be dead without them.

The demand to this venture is the biggest venture since MK's explosion(historians now very briefly the first month had a quiet time)

You fell for the spiral from what really more or less one person who I have ignored since spun things out to. That was your error and anger, not my lack of point.

They will charge people full day and more than any of Disney's days with no promotion or discount for as long as they can, as long as the demand is there.

Only Magic Kingdom has ever been able to get away with that. And of course it was new and only dog in town. And of course EPIC is getting away with it as a new park. It is doing so well into July as the third theme park in the complex.

Now HHN packages should open up this week to next week. Stay tuned.

 

[flynnibus]

You can stop right here.

I just suggest you do... no one is buying into this crap victory lap story you've contrived.

EPIC was going to have massive demand - UNI chose to limit access and separate discounts as a means to manage that expected demand. It's doing the job. Eventually they will convert to the multi-day park model they and Disney both have used for decades.

The point has remained the same. People try and shift it to me bashing that Disney, EPCOT, MGM and Animal Kingdom(and any other theme park if you want to) can't be successful. Never said that.

You didn't, nor did anyone ever say you claimed 'they can't be successful' -- If that's your takeaway, you failed. You yourself discounted their openings based on their ticket strategy. You continue to do it in arguing only Epic could do differently. You make a claim about openings... yet you keep getting back to attacking things like WDWs pricing in 2025.. this is flailing. Your arguement was openings... why the hell do you keep talking about discounts in 2025?

You fell for the spiral from what really more or less one person who I have ignored since spun things out to. That was your error and anger, not my lack of point.

Once again, your self reflection fails.

 

[celluloid]

Well let me get this straight:

My communication is poor, to where someone will resort to profanity insults,
and myself reflection fails.

Cool, now that we are repeating insults...


HHN bookings will be excited to have the UK holiday folks visit EPIC while they are there. It will be interesting to see how it is incorporated and crowd patterns.