Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!

[Sir_Cliff]

I’ve never even heard of most the shows my nephews kids watch (I feel old just typing that), most of what they watch is on YouTube, apps, streaming services, or other non traditional media.

This is where I think D+ is going to be crucial to Disneys “nostalgia” future, unfortunately the only show that’s really connected with them so far is Bluey and some early Pixar stuff, D+ is the perfect venue to create nostalgia, much like Disney afternoons did with my generation and the Disney channel did with my nephews generation, they just need some viral shows to do it.

I agree that D+ is going to be crucial, but I don't think TV shows were especially crucial to creating the nostalgia that fuels Disney in the present. Sure, there is nostalgia for the old Disney Afternoon shows, but that seems very much on the fringes of what Disney taps into at present and those shows had begun to peter out by the mid-1990s after a pretty short run. It seems more the films that children saw in the cinema and then watched on VHS multiple times that fuel the millennial nostalgia they are tapping into at present. My impression is that D+ is still very effectively bringing more recent films into homes to be re-watched multiple times.

Obviously, it's impossible to know what people will be nostalgic for in the future. As someone who grew up in the 1980s and 1990s, though, Disney certainly seems a lot more omnipresent now than even at the height of the animation renaissance.

So Universal is more expensive than Disney. I wonder how long it will be before the media starts complaining about that.

Will be interesting to see the discussion in the WDW threads shift to people declaring Disney the cheap alternative and proclaiming their willingness to pay more to go to Universal because they provide a more premium product. Perhaps we will even see a gofundme to install showers in all the Comcast executives' offices.

 

[Bob Harlem]

This is a pretty strong signal that at least two new portals coming eventually. (Positioning relative to the others is a clue where)

 

[Sorcerer Mickey]

So Universal is more expensive than Disney. I wonder how long it will be before the media starts complaining about that.

The person you are responding to is not making a sincere argument.

Epcot is not $60/$89 a ticket. The math for a three-day or four-day pass works out to about that much per park, but you cannot purchase a $60 Epcot ticket. OP framed their argument and left "...with a three-day ticket" at the end of their sentence on purpose.

I could buy a three-day ticket to Universal's parks, including Epic Universe, at a price ranging from $118 to $161. This works out to $39.33 to $53.67 per park. The same ticket is cheaper throughout the entire range versus Disney's equivalent.

EDIT: I should have specified Universal's ticket is not exclusive to Florida residents, so the difference is even more stark.

 

[lazyboy97o]

This is a pretty strong signal that at least two new portals coming eventually. (Positioning relative to the others is a clue where)

Yes, no, maybe so. There are two expansion pads that connect to Celestial park with the intent that they could be used as future lands. One on each side between the existing lands. How that land actually gets developed is not set.

 

[John park hopper]

Have a stay scheduled for January at Shades of Green will be doing Universal have no desire for WDW appears Universal has WDW beat on admission price another plus

 

[celluloid]

The person you are responding to is not making a sincere argument.

Epcot is not $60/$89 a ticket. The math for a three-day or four-day pass works out to about that much per park, but you cannot purchase a $60 Epcot ticket. OP framed their argument and left "...with a three-day ticket" at the end of their sentence on purpose.

I could buy a three-day ticket to Universal's parks, including Epic Universe, at a price ranging from $118 to $161. This works out to $39.33 to $53.67 per park. The same ticket is cheaper throughout the entire range versus Disney's equivalent.

EDIT: I should have specified Universal's ticket is not exclusive to Florida residents, so the difference is even more stark.

You completely missed that the 118 to 161 is per day. You sincerely thought people are getting into a Uni park as low as 39 dollars a day when buying a three day ticket?
So your post had no basis here.

My point is the same.

For this summer, 3 days at WDWs parks not MK are cheaper than three days to take at Uni's parks.

 

[celluloid]

I really think you do a disservice to this park by defending it so voraciously. You set benchmarks that open really unnecessary criticism.

If you are really going down the monetary justification on success, which you seem to be doing by calling it a venture, there’s a shockingly large price tag you are overlooking. I’ll happily parse out quarterlies as we move forward. We’ll have the first crack at it in August.

Yeah, theme parks take a long time for ROI because of their large price tag for brand new infrastructure, attractions and lodging.

But ya know. Five years ago EPCOT spent over 2 billion to have wha we have now.
Galactic Starcruiser...yeah.
Two new shows in the park that has star wars billions was included in the discount just six years ago and just got two new shows.

So don't act like Disney does not have price tags too. Not a knock on Disney, but they all do. And Disney has been seen as overspending billions. Remember Guardians cost over half a billion alone as Disney's most expensive attraction ever built. Even as a successful attraction. It takes time for ROI, and then you habe Rat, the front of the park redesign, infsatrcture, Moana etc.

But for a new park, EPIC is not having some concerning financial issues in regards to current performance. Clearly.

How could one not see it as a venture? By definition, a new theme park going into business is.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

But for a new park, EPIC is not having some concerning financial issues in regards to current performance. Clearly.

How could one not see it as a venture? By definition, a new theme park going into business is.

I mean, by definition it is a “venture”, sure, but you’re taking the next step and proclaiming it a success. I’m not sure the shareholders are in agreement there yet.

As everyone in this thread has already pointed out, you’re way too early. There’s nothing yet stopping Epic from becoming Universal’s Disneyland Paris. I don’t think it will, but it’s certainly still possible.

 

[celluloid]

I mean, by definition it is a “venture”, sure, but you’re taking the next step and proclaiming it a success. I’m not sure the shareholders are in agreement there yet.

As everyone in this thread has already pointed out, you’re way too early. There’s nothing yet stopping Epic from becoming Universal’s Disneyland Paris. I don’t think it will, but it’s certainly still possible.

A lot could happen and fizzle gojng forward. I have mentioned that. And I speak in terms of success for Universal and shift in current market share that is obvious to see the venture a success. No one should ever think that woth established resort and CP/CM base and current passholder that the number of guests will be ever or certainly not recently shown.
Disneyland Paris was park 1 of a new market and flopped because of the contempt many had for it.

This is the third park of this stature for Uni in market saturated with more major theme parks and attractions than anywhere else.

I don't think that is comparable even if numbers and profit margins would be close, which objectively we see tickets sold as increasing towards July, not diminishing.

 

[Sorcerer Mickey]

You completely missed that the 118 to 161 is per day. You sincerely thought people are getting into a Uni park as low as 39 dollars a day when buying a three day ticket?
So your post had no basis here.

My point is the same.

For this summer, 3 days at WDWs parks not MK are cheaper than three days to take at Uni's parks.

Ha! Wow, you're right. What a miss.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Universal Opens the Floodgates for Ticket "Capacity" at Epic Universe Theme Park

Universal Orlando Resort has made a huge change to the Epic Universe ticket capacity, but will it make a difference with crowds?

blogmickey.com

 

[MisterPenguin]

 

[Sorcerer Mickey]

Does anyone know if Universal released a coffee table book about the development of EU?

 

[BrianLo]

Yeah, theme parks take a long time for ROI because of their large price tag for brand new infrastructure, attractions and lodging.

But ya know. Five years ago EPCOT spent over 2 billion to have wha we have now.
Galactic Starcruiser...yeah.
Two new shows in the park that has star wars billions was included in the discount just six years ago and just got two new shows.

So don't act like Disney does not have price tags too. Not a knock on Disney, but they all do. And Disney has been seen as overspending billions. Remember Guardians cost over half a billion alone as Disney's most expensive attraction ever built. Even as a successful attraction. It takes time for ROI, and then you habe Rat, the front of the park redesign, infsatrcture, Moana etc.

But for a new park, EPIC is not having some concerning financial issues in regards to current performance. Clearly.

How could one not see it as a venture? By definition, a new theme park going into business is.

No need to mince my words. No one ever called the Epcot redo the most successful venture since Magic Kingdom. But you keep calling Epic a more successful venture than original EPCOT center.

This reminds me of calling Epic superior than Tokyo Disney Sea. The hyperbole is just unnecessary and invites unnecessary conversation and criticism that then bothers you. It’s a great park, stop setting the benchmark of success in the stratosphere.

It simply doesn’t have the capacity for the dollar spend to pull off what you demand of it, which also doesn’t make it bad.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

A lot could happen and fizzle gojng forward. I have mentioned that. And I speak in terms of success for Universal and shift in current market share that is obvious to see the venture a success. No one should ever think that woth established resort and CP/CM base and current passholder that the number of guests will be ever or certainly not recently shown.
Disneyland Paris was park 1 of a new market and flopped because of the contempt many had for it.

You’re right that there aren’t 1:1 comparisons here. I still think thoughts on the current market share are premature — our only hard numbers are based on what the existing parks have done to wrangle attendance. Epic has played a role in that business strategy, but the impact of Epic itself is still very unclear.

My Disneyland Paris comparison is more this: Disneyland Paris was an incredible product, but became a massive financial burden on the company. It’s possible for Epic to become the same.

 

[celluloid]

You’re right that there aren’t 1:1 comparisons here. I still think thoughts on the current market share are premature — our only hard numbers are based on what the existing parks have done to wrangle attendance. Epic has played a role in that business strategy, but the impact of Epic itself is still very unclear.

My Disneyland Paris comparison is more this: Disneyland Paris was an incredible product, but became a massive financial burden on the company. It’s possible for Epic to become the same.

Right. No one here is victory lapping it as a ten year success because one can't, and no one fairly, should be calling it immediate or forecasting a failure either.

But presently, it is a hit new thing without a doubt. And the demand has grown smoothly thus far, not shrank.

 

[flynnibus]

No one discredited EPCOT's success. I specifically said this. Read entire discussions before posting.

Dude, you doubled down... then started backtracking and then put the goal posts on your back. I read the discussion... it was rediculous assertions and why I even said something. Don't try to flip this on me.

All this and you want to compare Shanghai Disneyland in Mainland China to EPIC Universe in Orlando? You think being China vs third theme park at that resort in Orlando has something to do with it?

Do I? No, you were the one who compared Epic's opening to everything since MK. Reap what you sow. You make redonkulus hypothesis... people are going to test it and show it's flaws. You doubled down on EPCOT selling 'discount' admission as some sort of filter... so you get an example that again debunks your theory without that filter constraint. That's how logic works.

(Shanghai Disney also allows Cast Members and families in and is Disney's first and only theme park of that resort with no other resorts quite like it around)

So now you are claiming EPIC should only be compared to parks that must
1) have other parks near by
2) can not offer multi-day discounts
3) must not allow employee admissions
How about ones that only can be open 10-10 too? You're response to the flaws in your claim is to simply keep applying filters so the only answer that can matter is your predisposed conclusion. It's a horrible look.

I covered all that when I said relative venture. But you are so quick to type all that out to prove something that just agrees with me.

'relative venture'? You mean "when you only compare what I want you to compare..."

Universal Epic Universe is a smaller capacity park than Maigic Kingdom, Animal Kingdom or EPCOT, and yet it is still near selling out even with these permitters.

How does smaller capacity make selling out harder??

Yeah, its pretty dang a hit. Why do you think they are not selling expensive pass add ons early on for this light summer where the attendance is still selling well? Becuase attendance and guest spending is up. GSATS are upper for the park.

Because ITS BRAND FREAKING NEW??

Uni would not charge more a day for EPIC than their other parks if it was doing anything lesser. The express pass demand very high valued in comparison and selling out.

Because its BRAND FREAKING NEW?

And all this on a year that people predict a lighter summer?

Because its BRAND FREAKING NEW? And a major draw as a whole new theme park??

Any other park opening you know of getting people well in and staying onsite when Annual Passes are not offered outside of Asia?

Any other I'd offer, you'd just respond with another new screening requirement.

EPIC is a hit of a third park for a resort that has also had the most recent major theme park ground up opening in Central FL in 1999. They were the last to open one and most recent to open one. And in the theme park saturated market, the park is having a successful third at their resort.

Why the hard on for 'third park' now as some major criteria? The population going right now don't care if it's 1 or 10 parks.. They are going because of what EPIC is offering itself. 1,3,5, whatever is about length of stay and creating the initial draw. Central FL already has the initial draw. UNI is exclusing Epic from any practical length of stay computations. The whole third park thing is about UNI increasing it's hotels and overall days per guest... not about if people are interested in seeing Epic. Because... ITS BRAND FREAKING NEW.

And third park? Are you now going back on the company line that Volcano bay has been their 3rd park for how many years now? Funny how that lingo suddenly changed... The whole 'first theme park opening in...' thing must have been beat into every influencer's head in their sessions because nearly every single one droned on that same talking point. Either, they are all too young to remember anything, or they were lapping up the talking points. There have been other theme park openings.. just none in their backyard.

Disney wishes they could sell 16,000 to 22,000 full price tickets a day to any park not Magic Kingdom. (and even that one rarely gets those numbers outside of peak times of near full price admission)

Yeah, let's compare the BRAND FREAKING NEW park that almost no one has been to... to the parks that after 30+ years... most people have at least been to before. Yeah.. totally the same thing!

 

[flynnibus]

The park that just opened two new shows, has an event enticing summer program and features Star Wars should not be having to resort to that.
It could be having to do with a lot of neglect and lack of substance in new additions as they remove other things.(you could insert this elsewhere too)

And I think a white collar office worker should have the awareness that the business model of the entire ecosystem is more complex than just the gate admission price of a single park...

 

[MisterPenguin]

How successful can EU be without cupcakes?

 

[flynnibus]

So Universal is more expensive than Disney. I wonder how long it will be before the media starts complaining about that.

Probably at a point where things stabalize and we're not talking about... a park that just opened.

UNI has been more expensive than Disney pretty much since the success of Harry Potter.. it's just not talked about much because overall people were still spending more at Disney because they were staying longer at Disney.

It will be interesting to see how trip durations settle in over the next 12-24months.