News New Haunted Mansion Grounds Expansion, Retail Shop Coming to Disneyland Resort in 2024

[lazyboy97o]

Are we sure the main Imagineering team even handled this project ??

There have been some examples recently that I feel like a lot of this work was outsourced to various companies that don’t have the same standards as Disney when it comes to execution or theming.

There is no such thing as “the main Imagineering team”. Every project has a different team. Even something like the work on The Haunted Mansion would have had different smaller teams based on project scope and discipline.

Vendors are not given free rein to do whatever they want on a project. Their work is still managed and approved by Walt Disney Imagineering.

 

[DrStarlander]

As many commentators have pointed out, the building is detrimentally big and unfortunately it's bigger than necessary due to the extended roof overhangs at the front and side porch. It's inevitable that people will claim the roof overhangs, especially out front, are necessary or that the rehab project to cut them back would be substantial due to the many beefy beams extending out front.

As the years go on, people may lose track of how this structure was actually built and what is, or is not, structural. So the following images of the construction phases serve to record the building's construction and to show that those beams are entirely cosmetic.

Although the two beam extensions at the roof inflection points (where it changes angle) were originally the actual structural beams, they were cut back during construction (which you can see in the progression of images, and notice the burn marks from the process of cutting the beam back with). They were replaced, and joined with others, including at the ridge, with fake beam extensions.

The point of all this is that they spent additional money to create these beam extensions, and on the additional size of the roof. Oh well. But more importantly, now, it is a relatively minor project to cut this front roof extension back to match the back of the structure as seen in the bottom reference image (and, architecturally-integrity-wise, it always should have matched). This, and eliminating the porch overhang, would reduce the visual scale of this building.

 

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

It's hard to reconcile that the Madame Leota gift shop is a couple hundreds yards away from the Jungle Cruise queue building, a masterpiece of themed design and construction. What a stark difference. One is Tokyo DisneySea level and the other is Six Flags level...
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Call me a pessimistic fan who only likes the old stuff, but it is insane to me how much the quality of the parks has dropped off since the 2010s (if I'm being generous. You could argue it dropped off at the turn of the century). Compare Expedition Everest to the new HM gift shop- EE is full of so much detail that makes it feel like only Disney could do it. Leota's barn is a prefab building bought from some company with random props thrown inside and next to nothing done to the structure itself to make it fit the area. They just threw some gothic looking things on it. Where is the "story" they love talking about so much? The company uses "story" like it's a marketing buzzword that they're trying to copyright, every press release and statement from them uses the word "story" in some way, but they somehow forgot the "story" in this building, aside from "Leota used to live here even though it's a barn".

What happened to WDI? Where did all the budget/talent go? I know there's still many talented Imagineers there, but it feels like the true creative minds of the company are gone and so are the budgets they used to get. It drives me insane that Disney has moved to approving projects that will guarantee a strong ROI so they can keep bailing out all their businesses that are losing money- Disney+, the movies (not a lot of big hits in the last few years, 2023 was a bloodbath for them), their Disney adult cult towns "storyliving communities" they're building... the parks make so much money but so little of it goes back into them to make them better. So many projects end up drastically smaller and cheaper than announced because the parks are unfortunately sharing a company with everything else. TDL has it good.

 

[lazyboy97o]

As many commentators have pointed out, the building is detrimentally big and unfortunately it's bigger than necessary due to the extended roof overhangs at the front and side porch. It's inevitable that people will claim the roof overhangs, especially out front, are necessary or that the rehab project to cut them back would be substantial due to the many beefy beams extending out front.

The rafter tails are fake but there are purlins within the roof itself that are part of the structural system. It would still require some work to recalculate the structural design. Not having a cantilever is generally simpler than having one, but it’s still a change to the roof structure. What would be substantial is the amount of care required for marginal at best aesthetic improvements. The layers of the building envelope, primarily the roof itself, would need to be carefully pulled back and then reassembled to maintain required performance. This thing just doesn’t have good bones.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Leota's barn is a prefab building bought from some company with random props thrown inside and next to nothing done to the structure itself to make it fit the area.

This thread, including the post immediately before yours, has plenty of photos showing it clearly is not a prefab building. They also show it is not a kit or even pre-engineered. They definitively show that it is not wood.

What happened to WDI? Where did all the budget/talent go? I know there's still many talented Imagineers there, but it feels like the true creative minds of the company are gone and so are the budgets they used to get. It drives me insane that Disney has moved to approving projects that will guarantee a strong ROI so they can keep bailing out all their businesses that are losing money- Disney+, the movies (not a lot of big hits in the last few years, 2023 was a bloodbath for them), their Disney adult cult towns "storyliving communities" they're building... the parks make so much money but so little of it goes back into them to make them better. So many projects end up drastically smaller and cheaper than announced because the parks are unfortunately sharing a company with everything else. TDL has it good.

This is not an accurate assessment. You’re even criticizing revenue being generated by the parks division. Projects have not ended up cheaper in about twenty years. Disney’s project budgets aren’t just large, they’re obscenely large.

 

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

This thread, including the post immediately before yours, has plenty of photos showing it clearly is not a prefab building. They also show it is not a kit or even pre-engineered. They definitively show that it is not wood.

It might have been constructed in the park, but it's very clearly a design made by someone outside Disney.
https://legacypostandbeam.com/new-pre-designed-barn-kit-the-armstrong-4236/

Sure, it's not 1 to 1, so if that doesn't make it prefab, then let's go with "pre-made blueprint with extra flourishes added".

This is not an accurate assessment. You’re even criticizing revenue being generated by the parks division. Projects have not ended up cheaper in about twenty years. Disney’s project budgets aren’t just large, they’re obscenely large.

By "cheaper", I meant quality-wise. Smaller and cheaper, as in scope and quality. I wasn't meaning they were monetarily cheaper than past projects- they're more expensive, but I personally believe they're still being affected by budget cuts and changes.

When I said that budgets are being affected by Disney funneling profits from the parks to other divisions, I don't mean the projects are less expensive than in the past. They're obviously more expensive than in the past, but their budgets are still being affected. Nearly every announced project has had some big grand concept art, before reality being something much smaller in scope, likely as a result of smaller budgets. Could be more of a marketing problem, since Disney announces stuff way too early nowadays.

So yeah, projects aren't cheaper in monetary cost, but they're not proportionately budgeted for what they need, and they come off cheaper. Leota's Gift Shop being a prime example- cheap project from start to finish. Disney, for whatever reason, isn't giving the parks the budgets they need when they totally could.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It might have been constructed in the park, but it's very clearly a design made by someone outside Disney.
https://legacypostandbeam.com/new-pre-designed-barn-kit-the-armstrong-4236/
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Sure, it's not 1 to 1, so if that doesn't make it prefab, then let's go with "pre-made blueprint with extra flourishes added".

Do you consider The Haunted Mansion to be a “pre-made blueprint with extra flourishes added”? That is a kit for a wood building. This is a steel structure. You cannot just hit Ctrl+F and replace wood with steel on drawings.

By "cheaper", I meant quality-wise. Smaller and cheaper, as in scope and quality. I wasn't meaning they were monetarily cheaper than past projects- they're more expensive, but I personally believe they're still being affected by budget cuts and changes.

When I said that budgets are being affected by Disney funneling profits from the parks to other divisions, I don't mean the projects are less expensive than in the past. They're obviously more expensive than in the past, but their budgets are still being affected. Nearly every announced project has had some big grand concept art, before reality being something much smaller in scope, likely as a result of smaller budgets. Could be more of a marketing problem, since Disney announces stuff way too early nowadays.

So yeah, projects aren't cheaper in monetary cost, but they're not proportionately budgeted for what they need, and they come off cheaper. Leota's Gift Shop being a prime example- cheap project from start to finish. Disney, for whatever reason, isn't giving the parks the budgets they need when they totally could.

They are giving projects way more than they need. Choosing to poorly spend money doesn’t mean enough wasn’t provided. Nothing about this gift shop is the result of insufficient funds. Just throwing more money at it was not going to result in something better.

 

[Too Many Hats]

For me, it's hard to know what thought or effort the people who designed it put into it. I actually think it's most likely -- and equally, or more, troubling -- that they probably did put thought into it but they lack the talent needed to perform as well as their Imagineering predecessors.

Talented creatives would have been able to pull this off with the same, minimal, budget by simply not making terrible decisions, and by allocating their spending in better places. Here are some examples:

1. The deep overhang at the front, as discussed above. This was unnecessary and is a detraction. That's not because of a budget limitation (in fact, what they did costs more), it's because a designer didn't research and understand the relevant historical architecture and instead got excited about hanging lanterns.
2. Speaking of the lanterns, and all the lighting...custom historical light fixtures can be made by countless workshops dedicated to that craft, and it's not that expensive. The lights they're using look like they came from Lowe's. Yes, could it be a cost savings? Sure, but better lights would not have cost that much. Those pendant lanterns out front could have been mystical, thematically enticing, colored-glass lanterns to evoke Madame Leota...isn't that the point of theming this after her?
3. Also on the topic of lighting, the glass in the lanterns is clear, affording too clear a view of the bulbs, which are too white/bright. And none of it flickers up and down to simulate flame. Antique, frosted/seeded glass, warmer color temperature bulbs, and flicker modules would not have added hardly any cost. It was a creative failure to exploit these details to the fullest thematic potential.
4. The siding is fake, probably Hardie board or equivalent, with a fake texture and it looks awful. Actual wood (as used on the Jungle Cruise queue building) comes with additional cost, which includes fireproofing and sandblasting, wire brushing, etc., to bring out the grain/texture. This would have raised costs, and it may not last as long, theoretically (e.g., Hardboard may last 70ish years instead of wood's 50ish), but this is Anaheim (about as mild a climate as you can find) and that is not a real issue. This is absolutely the place to spend money. If this building was real wood, it would have been received significantly better. I know people would doubt that average guests could tell the difference but they can; they can perceive the "cheapness," especially within the context of Disneyland.
5. Also on the siding, the perception of the height of the building could have been reduced with a stone wainscot/foundation (say 3 feet high). This would have made the building look less like a Home Depot shed or school "portable" classroom trailer. It would have looked permanent, historic, quaint, and more visually interesting. If you walk around a suburban neighborhood in the U.S. you'll see stone wainscoting on home exteriors all over. It's not a massive splurge to do stone veneer on the bottom three feet versus any other siding material. It's not a budget buster. It was a creative failure.
6. The iron gate at the back, right near the Haunted Mansion exit, which provides a view of th backstage area, plumbing, and other junk. That is an example of a creative failure, as the custom iron gate cost more than just doing a rustic wood fence gate that would have worked better to block the backstage view.

These are just examples. But to me it's creative failure after creative failure. Doing it significantly better would have hardly cost more. I say all this because I think if people put too much focus on Iger and the MBAs, we'll fail to hold the creatives (and the HR department responsible to hiring the best creatives in the first place) responsible. And I'd rather have genius creatives working with smaller budgets than creative lightweights working with bigger budgets.

Great post. I appreciate your detailed breakdown of all the shortcomings.

If WDI played any significant role in this eyesore, they are in worse shape than I thought. I agree with you that Disney parks fans need to hold WDI more accountable; too often we give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they faced impossible budget or creative restrictions, when often their mismanaged priorities and unforced limitations are self-imposed (see: Tiana’s Bayou Adventure; Web-Slingers: A Spider-Man Adventure; Smuggler’s Run, etc.).

However with regard to the Home Depot shed erected in front of the Haunted Mansion, I guess I just assumed it’s more of a rushed Consumer Products mandate than a WDI project. I have no evidence to back that up; it’s just a suspicion. If we find out Kim and Charita dreamed up the shed themselves, we are in trouble.

 

[DrStarlander]

Great post. I appreciate your detailed breakdown of all the shortcomings.

If WDI played any significant role in this eyesore, they are in worse shape than I thought. I agree with you that Disney parks fans need to hold WDI more accountable; too often we give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they faced impossible budget or creative restrictions, when often their mismanaged priorities and unforced limitations are self-imposed (see: Tiana’s Bayou Adventure; Web-Slingers: A Spider-Man Adventure; Smuggler’s Run, etc.).

However with regard to the Home Depot shed erected in front of the Haunted Mansion, I guess I just assumed it’s more of a rushed Consumer Products mandate than a WDI project. I have no evidence to back that up; it’s just a suspicion. If we find out Kim and Charita dreamed up the shed themselves, we are in trouble.

Personally, my take is that everything at the parks is "by Imagineering." Maybe that's technically not true, but as customers, we shouldn't have to know, and we shouldn't have different standards of quality from one aspect of the park to another because of what group of people -- who all work for the same company -- worked on it. Especially if that info is not made transparent.

When I go to a restaurant, I expect the food to be on-standard without knowing whether the restaurant's actual chef de cuisine is there that day, or whether the dish is made by the sous chef or anyone else. It doesn't matter, and I shouldn't have to know.

And what is significant is that Imagineering has long been one of their valued brands. It was an elite, imprimatur of quality, and it was "a stick," so to speak, that they beat down the competition with. They had Imagineering. Universal, and others, did not. From the earliest days of the Disneyland television show through decades of books and documentaries, they've touted their Imagineering brand. So, when the quality goes down, naturally, Imagineering will be blamed...not a nameless, unknown operations or merchandising group we have not been told about.

If Disney can't deliver the level of quality that would avoid criticism because they, intermittently, have less talented (not actual Imagineers) employees building things in their parks, they have an organizational problem to solve. And it's an urgent problem. Because, especially in this era of online critical reviews and absolute coverage of everything they do, they will largely be judged by their failures rather than their achievements.

Someone at the company who should be advocating for the Imagineering brand (and its long-term value to the company, including in fending off competition from Universal) needs to go to the top, and explain what's happening, and what the risk is, and propose the organizational changes that will ensure high standards are met, moving forward.

And they need to quickly clean up some of the recent messes that are ongoing, highly visible symbols of diminished quality, and agitators of negative goodwill.

As far as the Haunted Mansion gift shop goes, specifically, it should have been a tour de force of themed environmental design, every square inch, inside and out. Not because it deserved more attention than other projects -- everything should be great -- but because the source material is so juicy. It's meat falling off the bone. It's an absolute layup. You would have to go to extraordinary measures of malpractice to screw it up. Which they did. And the longer it sits there unimproved, the more harm it does.

 

[Adventureland Veranda]

As far as the Haunted Mansion gift shop goes, specifically, it should have been a tour de force of themed environmental design, every square inch, inside and out. Not because it deserved more attention than other projects -- everything should be great -- but because the source material is so juicy. It's meat falling off the bone. It's an absolute layup. You would have to go to extraordinary measures of malpractice to screw it up. Which they did. And the longer it sits there unimproved, the more harm it does.

I was surprised how small the interior is and the decor seems like it's lacking something - heart, whimsy, fun, and imagination. I liked the NOS shop much better than what was done here. Also, the store at WDW has way more charm than the Home Depot shed.

You are spot on concerning the source material, the possibilities are endless.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Personally, my take is that everything at the parks is "by Imagineering." Maybe that's technically not true, but as customers, we shouldn't have to know, and we shouldn't have different standards of quality from one aspect of the park to another because of what group of people -- who all work for the same company -- worked on it. Especially if that info is not made transparent.

When I go to a restaurant, I expect the food to be on-standard without knowing whether the restaurant's actual chef de cuisine is there that day, or whether the dish is made by the sous chef or anyone else. It doesn't matter, and I shouldn't have to know.

And what is significant is that Imagineering has long been one of their valued brands. It was an elite, imprimatur of quality, and it was "a stick," so to speak, that they beat down the competition with. They had Imagineering. Universal, and others, did not. From the earliest days of the Disneyland television show through decades of books and documentaries, they've touted their Imagineering brand. So, when the quality goes down, naturally, Imagineering will be blamed...not a nameless, unknown operations or merchandising group we have not been told about.

If Disney can't deliver the level of quality that would avoid criticism because they, intermittently, have less talented (not actual Imagineers) employees building things in their parks, they have an organizational problem to solve. And it's an urgent problem. Because, especially in this era of online critical reviews and absolute coverage of everything they do, they will largely be judged by their failures rather than their achievements.

Someone at the company who should be advocating for the Imagineering brand (and its long-term value to the company, including in fending off competition from Universal) needs to go to the top, and explain what's happening, and what the risk is, and propose the organizational changes that will ensure high standards are met, moving forward.

And they need to quickly clean up some of the recent messes that are ongoing, highly visible symbols of diminished quality, and agitators of negative goodwill.

As far as the Haunted Mansion gift shop goes, specifically, it should have been a tour de force of themed environmental design, every square inch, inside and out. Not because it deserved more attention than other projects -- everything should be great -- but because the source material is so juicy. It's meat falling off the bone. It's an absolute layup. You would have to go to extraordinary measures of malpractice to screw it up. Which they did. And the longer it sits there unimproved, the more harm it does.

To be fair, they were planning this for 10 years

 

[mickEblu]

I was surprised how small the interior is and the decor seems like it's lacking something - heart, whimsy, fun, and imagination. I liked the NOS shop much better than what was done here. Also, the store at WDW has way more charm than the Home Depot shed.

You are spot on concerning the source material, the possibilities are endless.

Current WDI just seems to be missing that IT factor. Some instances like MMRR they can throw enough money and tech at something to make it Ok enough to help mask that fact but they re just missing that je ne sais quoi.

 

[Adventureland Veranda]

Current WDI just seems to be missing that IT factor. Some instances like MMRR they can throw enough money and tech at something to make it Ok and help mask the fact but they re just missing that je ne sais quoi.

MMRR was an interesting experience. Finally got to ride it this past week. We all seemed to think it was just okay, but yeah definitely missing the IT factor like the classic attractions. If felt gimmicky at times and more physical props would be a plus.

 

[Dear Prudence]

I still can't believe the gift shop used AI for art/décor.

 

[DrStarlander]

I still can't believe the gift shop used AI for art/décor.

The AI artwork was very notable and on-topic, so it got a lot of coverage. But countless material/sourcing failures occurred throughout the project. Here's one that astounds me. Under that porch overhang there are various props hanging and they were hung from bright, shiny, zinc-coated eye-bolts, the kind you can buy from Home Dept, Lowe's, or Ace Hardware. They were installed "as is" and entirely un-themed, and jarring in their cheapness and lack of effort.

If you go on Etsy, you can find historic-looking hardware in less than one minute of searching, such as these...which are...hold on, this is is a real budget buster...$1.45 each.

The Etsy seller-maker described these as follows: "One of these small (#8) blacksmithed screw eyes. These eyelets are made from #8 screw eyes from the hardware store. I put them in the furnace and hammer the loop flat, then quench the hot piece in oil to give it a durable black finish. Great for hanging all kinds of things. Price is per eye. More than one available. (Select the quantity you want.) Combined shipping for more than one."

Huh. That looks and sounds just about perfect for a 19th century carriage house, right? It's a no-brainer. It's cheap. It's a few clicks away on Etsy. You can't get ANY easier than that (compared to the kind of effort and legwork the original Imagineers had to do to get things done). And the people who built that shop couldn't even click a few buttons online, apparently. They couldn't even get out a can of Krylon spray paint, to do a kinda-bad job. I'm incensed by this project. It's a shocking pageantry of low-initiative, laziness and low standards.

 

[Dear Prudence]

The AI artwork was very notable and on-topic, so it got a lot of coverage. But countless material/sourcing failures occurred throughout the project. Here's one that astounds me. Under that porch overhang there are various props hanging and they were hung from bright, shiny, zinc-coated eye-bolts, the kind you can buy from Home Dept, Lowe's, or Ace Hardware. They were installed "as is" and entirely un-themed, and jarring in their cheapness and lack of effort.

If you go on Etsy, you can find historic-looking hardware in less than one minute of searching, such as these...which are...hold on, this is is a real budget buster...$1.45 each.
View attachment 857504
The Etsy seller-maker described these as follows: "One of these small (#8) blacksmithed screw eyes. These eyelets are made from #8 screw eyes from the hardware store. I put them in the furnace and hammer the loop flat, then quench the hot piece in oil to give it a durable black finish. Great for hanging all kinds of things. Price is per eye. More than one available. (Select the quantity you want.) Combined shipping for more than one."

Huh. That looks and sounds just about perfect for a 19th century carriage house, right? It's a no-brainer. It's cheap. It's a few clicks away on Etsy. You can't get ANY easier than that (compared to the kind of effort and legwork the original Imagineers had to do to get things done). And the people who built that shop couldn't even click a few buttons online, apparently. They couldn't even get out a can of Krylon spray paint, to do a kinda-bad job. I'm incensed by this project. It's a shocking pageantry of low-initiative, laziness and low standards.
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View attachment 857510

I absolutely agree. One of the cat figures that's in the queue I literally have in my yard. I am so disappointed

 

[mickEblu]

I absolutely agree. One of the cat figures that's in the queue I literally have in my yard. I am so disappointed

Wow. SMH. That’s embarrassing.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Wow. SMH. That’s embarrassing.

I saw it in a tiktok video and I was like NO WAY Disney, COME ONNNN

 

[SuddenStorm]

When I rode Mansion on 5/30, the digital hitchhiking ghost effect was out of sync with the vehicles. So they weren't where they should be on the mirror.

On 5/31 when I rode they were off completely.

Say what you will, but I've probably been on that ride like 50 times and have no memory of ever seeing that effect not work. So maybe the digital upgrade has some downsides...

 

[DrStarlander]

If Magic Kingdom doesn't need this building any more from the Rivers of America, can we get it shipped out to Anaheim so we can use this real wood on the Madame Leota gift shop?