HOW WILL UNIVERSAL'S EPIC UNIVERSE AFFECT WALT DISNEY WORLD?

[Disneyhead'71]

What Disney is more concerned about is Epic Universe and it 3 hotels is just the beginning of UOR's south campus. The full build out is for another theme park, a water park, and 3 more hotels.

 

[Jrb1979]

I don't think anybody could make the case that Indiana Jones Adventure lacks immersive theming. The story is simply told through the adventure itself rather than narrative exposition.

Anyway, I actually agree with the point you were seemingly trying to make. Most guests seem to appreciate when some amount of thrill is incorporated into dark ride attractions these days.

I agree that today's guests want some thrill. I feel if you can't go to the level that Universal does with Velocicoaster then don't bother.

Dollywood is the standard in how to theme bug thrills well. While the coasters have exposed steel the stations are well themed and immersive

 

[Stripes]

I feel if you can't go to the level that Universal does with Velocicoaster then don't bother.

What does this mean? Surely you recognize that the vast majority of Disney and Universal guests (the most attended parks in the world) would like a wide array of thrill levels in the attractions at a park?

Plenty of people would like to ride something more thrilling than Spaceship Earth but less thrilling than Velocicoaster.

 

[WondersOfLife]

"It'll get their a**es moving" should be an answer.

Competition is good for the consumer in this case.

 

[Jrb1979]

What does this mean? Surely you recognize that the vast majority of Disney and Universal guests (the most attended parks in the world) would like a wide array of thrill levels in the attractions at a park?

Plenty of people would like to ride something more thrilling than Spaceship Earth but less thrilling than Velocicoaster.

I do agree they need a balance. I'm talking about about when they put in a coaster like Guardians. I feel if they are going to put in a top coaster they should make it Velocicoaster level.

 

[Andrew25]

What Disney is more concerned about is Epic Universe and it 3 hotels is just the beginning of UOR's south campus. The full build out is for another theme park, a water park, and 3 more hotels.

A 2nd water park I'm a bit skeptical on. UOR isn't very fond of how problematic VB has been operationally. Maybe they change their mind if this VB special ticketed event proves popular. (I could see a scenario where UOR builds a water park inside of a hotel though).

But yes, continued buildout with more hotels should keep Disney on their toes.

I know Disneyhead said 3 more hotels, but you can fit a bit more. (Green is what UOR owns and can build on - they own more through Shingle Creek, but doubt they touch that anytime soon).

You can fit another Terra Luna-sized hotel complex to the west of Terra Luna. There's a bit of land between Stella Nove & Epic Universe that can fit a hotel the size of Aventura (doubt they build a tower here, could see an expansion of Stella Nova with a parking garage later on.)

To the west, UOR owns a massive piece of land that can easily fit in Endless Summer Dockside with more room to spare for an additional Aventura-style tower and enough space left over to leave some greenery.

This is just speculation, no credible rumor on here. There's a lot of room to play around here, especially if you consider part of the Orange County owned land by the Convention Center (across the Catchlight Crossings development) that UOR can purchase from the county for additional hotels or even a parking structure.

I still think UOR should "cap" their resort at 3 parks until they fully flesh out IOA, USF and UEU.

 

[lazyboy97o]

A 2nd water park I'm a bit skeptical on. UOR isn't very fond of how problematic VB has been operationally. Maybe they change their mind if this VB special ticketed event proves popular. (I could see a scenario where UOR builds a water park inside of a hotel though).

But yes, continued buildout with more hotels should keep Disney on their toes.

I know Disneyhead said 3 more hotels, but you can fit a bit more. (Green is what UOR owns and can build on - they own more through Shingle Creek, but doubt they touch that anytime soon).

You can fit another Terra Luna-sized hotel complex to the west of Terra Luna. There's a bit of land between Stella Nove & Epic Universe that can fit a hotel the size of Aventura (doubt they build a tower here, could see an expansion of Stella Nova with a parking garage later on.)

To the west, UOR owns a massive piece of land that can easily fit in Endless Summer Dockside with more room to spare for an additional Aventura-style tower and enough space left over to leave some greenery.
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This is just speculation, no credible rumor on here. There's a lot of room to play around here, especially if you consider part of the Orange County owned land by the Convention Center (across the Catchlight Crossings development) that UOR can purchase from the county for additional hotels or even a parking structure.

I still think UOR should "cap" their resort at 3 parks until they fully flesh out IOA, USF and UEU.

Reminder that a master plan more related to the type of drawing and not a specific objective or course of action. Describing it as “full build out” is disingenuous and suggests a commitment that does not exist.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I honestly wish it would take away a lot of visitors from Disney World to get Disney to wake up to some of its more recently shortcomings. I think it will probably have an effect. Maybe more people will choose to stay at Universal and visit Disney as side trip instead of the other way around, but it will balance out again after the initial hype. The reason they will never beat Magic Kingdom (outside of nostalgia) is that Universal doesn’t build enough family attractions that aren’t all screen based. As excited as I am for Epic Universe, I don’t really see this issue being fixed with what’s being advertised. The screen based rides can be really cool, but when that’s the vast majority of attractions, it gets old quick (I say this as someone who really wanted to love Universal just as much as WDW when we took our first Universal only trip this last year). Even our teenager that we took was getting sick of all the screen based rides. So then, if you also don’t like roller coasters, there’s not a whole lot available once you are getting sick from riding so many screen based rides. I know Universal is probably targeting a different audience, but that’s what will hold it back from ever being number one in my opinion, if that’s what they are going for.

I still am excited to Epic! That’s just my opinion on why Disney will still have them beat.

I will gently point out though that ride quality is not the only measure of a great theme/amusement park. Several other factors are extremely important to parkgoers on the whole, including price paid for the product delivered, food quality, customer service, and line management.

As has been pointed out many times on this forum, where WDW once excelled their food quality, customer service, line management, and value for price paid have declined significantly.

Everything about Lightning Lane MP is horrible. Even the name- or rather names- is terrible, bloated, mismanaged, and overly confusing. If I was grading LLMP on ease of use, I'd give it an F.

Food quality is always a bit subjective, but WDW's quality has declined considerably. The buffets have now suffered the same level of mismanagement as LLMP: terrible quality, overpriced, and still a hassle to get a table, especially at night. Eating breakfast or dinner should not be complicated. I kid you not, I was just at GF Cafe for a 2pm meal. The place was empty, yet for some bizarre reason, my party had to wait a full HALF HOUR past check-in (arrived2:20, or 20 min after the ADR time) to be seated. What is the point of making a reservation if they are repeatedly not honored? ARGH! (late seating a chronic problem going back years.)

I will contrast that sharply to my experiences at Universal, where we've had many enjoyable meals. The food at Terra Luna was really good, and it is a quick serve option. Our table service meals have also been very good.

Last....well, to some extent people flock to the thing that is NEW!!!! Epic just has to be decent to draw people eager to try an ENTIRE theme park that is NEW!

 

[UNCgolf]

I will contrast that sharply to my experiences at Universal, where we've had many enjoyable meals. The food at Terra Luna was really good, and it is a quick serve option. Our table service meals have also been very good.

I've had the opposite experience. I agree that most of the food at Disney isn't especially good, but the food I ate at Universal (inside the parks; hotel/CityWalk food is better) was unbelievably bad. The food quality was terrible, the service at TS restaurants was bad... eating inside the parks was miserable. It made Disney look gourmet in comparison.

Luckily CityWalk is right there, so you can just avoid having any in-park food (Disney Springs is also generally much better than other Disney food, but it's nowhere near as convenient as CityWalk), but I was shocked by how truly awful the in-park dining was.

Early reports suggest the food at EU is much better than the food at USF/IOA, though (which wouldn't be difficult). Hopefully that's true and they're able to maintain that quality when the park is busy.

 

[Andrew25]

Epic Universe has set a new standard when it comes to a few things...

• Monsters Unchained has set a new standard on how to best use practical & modern tech, and blend it seamlessly
• Ministry of Magic (both the land and queue) set a new standard for the scale at which a modern-day theme park land/attraction can be built. It's ridiculous.
• Quick Service Dining - the food needs work, but the settings are utterly fantastic. They are all beautiful and great environments to be in. Das Stakehaus was great, Toodstool will be a hit with families, Cafe L'air la Sirene feels like you are in Paris (not even exaggerating, it's amazing), even Pizza Moon with its "just pizza" menu is a great setting.
• SNW isn't new, but it'll make Disney's attempts at Magic Band interactivity look insignificant. A lot of families will probably ditch spending money on a MB+ band if they end up visiting Epic first (or if they plan ahead).

I wouldn't call Epic Universe a "Disney Killer" but it does change the industry a bit. Epic easily has the best quick service dining environments (food is still a hit or miss) and the scale is utterly insane at some areas.

There are issues that I have with Epic, but I'm hoping they're still working on them. (The lack of a significant forested berm around HTTYD is a big miss IMO).


On the UOR F&B dining front, I frequent both resorts and while UOR has improved, a few things have unfortunately worked against them.

• Table Service at UOR is not what it used to be. The quality has dropped in the last 2 years or so. Cowfish is no longer the value/quality it once was. Toothsome is ok, just has high & low swings over time - drinks have remained great though. Mythos is ok since it's pricing remains a value compared to the quick services. $23 for a higher quality burger & great views versus $16 for a standard bacon burger at Burger Digs. The $7 dollar "premium" is very worth it.
• Quick Service at UOR, like WDW, has its really good and really bad options. Minions Cafe and Thunder Falls have great quality options... but the rest of the pack is subpar. Disney, on average, just has better value AND better service. It's not uncommon to see mobile order at UOR be a complete nightmare to use.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

• Quick Service at UOR, like WDW, has its really good and really bad options. Minions Cafe and Thunder Falls have great quality options... but the rest of the pack is subpar. Disney, on average, just has better value AND better service. It's not uncommon to see mobile order at UOR be a complete nightmare to use.

I've had very mixed experiences with WDW's mobile order. Missing items, missing orders ("network down"), etc.

I also had another problem at Docking Bay. The only drink options are soft drinks and tiny apple juice boxes. You can no longer get an adult sized orange or apple juice. It is frustrating, because they were both options in the past. Getting a normal range of beverages continues to be a problem at WDW.

Another consistent problem at WDW is lack of fresh produce. I end up eating boring basic green salads made with not-fresh produce over and over. At Topolino's my dinner was supposed to come with a vegetable, but what arrived was- I kid you not- just a small smear of something orange, as though my plate wasn't washed.

 

[Vinnie Mac]

It can really only affect them positively

 

[Disneyhead'71]

It can really only affect them positively

Epic has a very EPCOT feel. It has a much more mature feel to it than the other 2 Universal parks. That said, this park is not designed to appeal to the Disney Adult Demographic (although, I think it will appeal to many), but may I suggest there is actually now an Adult Universal Demographic. Kids who grew up with HHNs in the '90s, and kids who were 10 when Hogsmead opened who are now 25 with their own kids. That is who this park is built for. Universal is doing their own thing now.

Although, even with all the "a rising tide raises all boats" rhetoric from Disney, I think it is disingenuous. I do believe they are extremely interested in what the punk down the street is doing.

 

[Stripes]

Disney saying the next decade at WDW will be bigger than the Disney Decade.

 

[rd805]

Universal will be plus-ing around ALL parks very soon too. RRR, Simpsons replacements will be announced very soon; hopefully the new land in IoA (i'm less certain of that being fast - but it has to be around the corner with their rumors flying around), and I'm willing to bet two new attractions in Epic within 2-3 years from opening date.

WDW has some great ideas currently starting in development; but they take far too long to put things together. "The next Disney Decade" could be great - but i'm not excited for 2030 at this point. I'm excited for 2025!

 

[Andrew25]

Epic has a very EPCOT feel. It has a much more mature feel to it than the other 2 Universal parks. That said, this park is not designed to appeal to the Disney Adult Demographic (although, I think it will appeal to many), but may I suggest there is actually now an Adult Universal Demographic. Kids who grew up with HHNs in the '90s, and kids who were 10 when Hogsmead opened are now 25 with their own kids. That is who this park is built for. Universal is doing their own thing now.

Although, even with all the "a rising tide raises all boats" rhetoric from Disney, I think it is disingenuous. I do believe they are extremely interested in what the punk down the street is doing.

It's very Epcot, but it'll need to sell APs to be successful in that regard.

Celestial Park feels very mature, yet has a familiar feel. Almost like Main Street.

Universal will be plus-ing around ALL parks very soon too. RRR, Simpsons replacements will be announced very soon; hopefully the new land in IoA (i'm less certain of that being fast - but it has to be around the corner with their rumors flying around), and I'm willing to bet two new attractions in Epic within 2-3 years from opening date.

WDW has some great ideas currently starting in development; but they take far too long to put things together. "The next Disney Decade" could be great - but i'm not excited for 2030 at this point. I'm excited for 2025!

It'll be interesting to see how quick Universal puts into action (not just words) attractions inspired by Pokemon & Wicked. Those are two major IPs that will help round the parks out to feature more family-friendly offerings.


Haven't been on Ministry yet, but did the queue on Tuesday. Last night went to DHS for Rise to compare... they beat Rise's "wow" in-queue moment.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

WDW has some great ideas currently starting in development; but they take far too long to put things together. "The next Disney Decade" could be great

What’s frustrating is WDW could improve things really fast if they wanted to - adding more character meets, atmosphere entertainment, and simple stage shows can happen relatively fast.

Along with opening shuttered gift shops and food stands and improving food quality all around.

Make the little things better while you build your new flashy attractions.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Looking at the stock market, things are gonna get worse before they get better.

 

[Stripes]

Universal will be plus-ing around ALL parks very soon too.

Then why are they laying off so many people at UC while WDI continues to grow? WDI now has more people in Florida than UC does and Florida is UC’s headquarters.

Meanwhile, UC has their Frisco park and the UK resort they need to devote resources to, yet they are letting people go.

Some very key people behind some of the best work on Epic are at WDI now.

WDW has some great ideas currently starting in development; but they take far too long to put things together.

Outside of Covid (when Disney purposely delayed development to stagger openings after it became impossible to open things by the 50th) the construction timelines of Disney and Universal are pretty similar, with Disney taking slightly longer.

For example, Hogsmeade (6 acres) and Diagon Alley (7 acres) took about 2.5 years between breaking ground and opening, by comparison Pandora (12 acres) and Galaxy’s Edge (14 acres) took about 3.5 years.

 

[Vinnie Mac]

Although, even with all the "a rising tide raises all boats" rhetoric from Disney, I think it is disingenuous. I do believe they are extremely interested in what the punk down the street is doing.

I agree but that's also why I said that I feel like it will benefit them. I guess by "them" I do mostly mean the Disney-oriented consumer. I don't think Disney will change radically but I do think Epic will have a postitive effect on Disney in the long run. Even now, Disney is already trying to play PR damage control by reinforcing the Disney bubble (the luggage return service + rumors of Magical Express returning).

At the end of the day we the consumers are winning. Disney can pretend all they want that Epic isn't affecting them but I don't think all this investment is coming out of nowhere. Disney has shifted from a proactive company to a reactive one over time. We're living in yet another era where both companies are gonna have to put their best foot forward. As someone who wasn't alive when the Disney Decade ran its course or when any of the major Orlando parks first opened, I'm so excited to see how all of this plays out. We'll be at Epic opening week so we'll be in the thick of things. I'm rooting for Universal and hoping for the best from Disney