Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Opens May 22 2025

[Baloo124]

This could also create issues of its own, as we've seen in IOA

And speaking of IOA, I've seen its sightline issues before, but also consider it a top-tier theme park as far as overall enjoyment. Right up there with MK in the fun factor, and when it immerses you, it definitely works. If the sightline issues people are complaining about with EU are equivalent to IOA, where the good is SO good it overshadows the flaws, am I a bad theme park fan for saying that could be ok?

 

[ToTBellHop]

Facial recognition lockers at Monsters Unchained, Hiccups Wing Gliders, and Stardust. Only Stardust has metal detectors after the lockers. Dragon Racers has cubbies.

Thanks. That’s a pleasant surprise. I expected more given the locker use at the existing parks.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

Aside from Stardust, are these sightlines something that could be fixed with flats and painted murals? (Even if they were large).
(I'm thinking of something along the lines of Kong, where the mountains seem to be off in the distance).

 

[lazyboy97o]

And speaking of IOA, I've seen its sightline issues before, but also consider it a top-tier theme park as far as overall enjoyment. Right up there with MK in the fun factor, and when it immerses you, it definitely works. If the sightline issues people are complaining about with EU are equivalent to IOA, where the good is SO good it overshadows the flaws, am I a bad theme park fan for saying that could be ok?

They’re not really the same thing. Personal enjoyment is generally not directly related to an analysis of craft.

 

[Baloo124]

They’re not really the same thing. Personal enjoyment is generally not directly related to an analysis of craft.

True, but with analyzing the craft of IOA, take Port of Entry for example since that's what you see first. I love the fantasy coastal village feel of the area from the lighthouse inward. Yet on paper, the thought of a large, green, barebones (mostly) coaster themed to the Incredible Hulk looming just beyond sounds ridiculous. If we were having this same discussion back when IOA was in preview mode, and people were saying you could hear the coaster roar, see it looming overhead, etc as you walked through a nicely themed seaside village, it would have sounded disappointing and theme-breaking like the EU sightline rumors suggest.
Yet in person, the Hulk coaster adds to the feel and theme of P.O.E. (imo), rather than distracting from it. It fuels the excitement as you enter. The detail of the shop exteriors are so well crafted, that regardless of the Hulk's sounds and visuals nearby, it doesn't take anything from P.O.E. (I hope that makes sense).

That's just one of several IOA sightline and sound "intrusions" that would sound poorly-themed in writing, but seeing firsthand is really a good experience. Hopefully EUs issues are similar.

 

[Tom Morrow]

I'll try to recount what I felt were the biggest sightline issues at Epic based on my one visit.

- Being able to see into the lands from Celestial Park is NOT an issue for me, the lands kind of bleed into Celestial Park anyway (SNW has a coin fountain in Celestial Park, for instance). This was a smart design choice.

- The expansion plots - between the main entrance and SNW, between SNW and DU, and between MiM and Stardust Racers - are currently pretty visible from Celestial Park. This could potentially be fixed in the next two months with more landscaping and walls. Remember that World Showcase, all along, has had expansion plots throughout it that people aren't even aware of, so it's possible to completely hide them.

- SNW and MiM are fully immersive, but you're surrounded by tall walls on all sides. Having all four lands take this design would have made the lands feel less unique.

- Dark Universe's back half, where Werewolf is, has some blatant views of backstage buildings and outside of the park from ground level. This area needed a berm. There is clearly space for another attraction back here that could eventually block the views, but relying on it eventually looking correct is sort of lazy IMO.

- Stardust Racers, while in the queue and on the ride, has ample views of the massive expansion pad between it and Potter.

- Isle of Berk really needed a berm with a thick treeline on all sides. While the theming inside the land is very good, it is by far the least immersive land as it does not feel enclosed or separated at all from the surrounding areas. The front half is dominated by views of Stardust Racers and backstage buildings. The back half feels like you could hop a fence and start walking over to the water treatment plant (probably true?).

In terms of impact, I would rank sightline issues in this order:

1. Being able to see completely outside of the park from ground level.
2. Being able to see backstage areas.
3. Being able to see other guest areas not related to the themed land you're in.

Number 1 I think is important for all theme parks and even many amusement parks. I want to block out the real world while I'm there even if I know it's still there. USF and IOA are actually pretty good about this. I know Hagrid's is right across the street from a high school, but I can't see it, so it's more of an escape. Obviously this can't be avoided when high up on a ride, but should be the goal from ground level views.

Number 2 is important for some theme parks. At USF, which, outside of Diagon Alley, does not aim for total immersion and is (or was) a "behind the scenes" studio park, it's not a big deal. IOA has a handful of backstage views but is mostly good about this.

Number 3 - in most theme parks this is a non-issue. IOA's lands, for instance, were never intended to be fully immersive, and it works. You're meant to take the place as a whole. When the goal is total immersion, like Galaxy's Edge, Diagon Alley, Pandora, etc, it is an issue. The four portal lands of Epic had this goal, but only two of them accomplish it.

As it stands, Disney remains the leader of quality sightlines and immersion, even if they themselves have slipped a bit over the years.

 

[Andrew25]

The choice of not surrounding Berk with a full berm is odd.

 

[TalkToEthan]

(I'm thinking of something along the lines of Kong, where the mountains seem to be off in the distance).

Yes, the unwanted sights can be greatly neutralized—- not eliminated of course—- but improved quite a bit.

The Kong approach helps out big time.

 

[drew81]

The choice of not surrounding Berk with a full berm is odd.

I hate how the pool area for Helios is right next to the unthemed Monsters show building.

Also, the side of Berk facing the parking lot, to me would be such a better entry experience with a berm. It would benefit the in-park sight lines and help overall aesthetics. I wonder if they could have added more of the wooden bleacher set pieces to help with the area next to Racers? Who knows.

 

[fatzingers27]

Saw rumors that the "Hero" lot has Zelda's shield as a logo as well as there being other hidden Zelda references around the park. Seems to confirm that being the next expansion, whether as an addition to SNW or its own land.

 

[rd805]

Saw rumors that the "Hero" lot has Zelda's shield as a logo as well as there being other hidden Zelda references around the park. Seems to confirm that being the next expansion, whether as an addition to SNW or its own land.

It would exceed my dreams if Zelda were to get it's own land; but I still can't ignore the empty space(s) at IoA that need transformation. To me though, while Zelda is a perfect IP for a land anywhere - having it in the same park as Mario & DK seems like a bit of video game overkill: Spread the Nintendo love around!

Something major as an IP or land should be considered if it's a totally new "land." LOTR matches the idea of MAJOR, Wizard of OZ / Wicked.

IMO it's missing some "Space" Port kind of feel, and I'll forever think that the use an actual Port could bring together a ton of different IPs in one unified location. Get the rights for Star Trek, while a stretch maybe BTTF, acquire the rights for DUNE...etc. This idea of multiple IPs in one location would build off of the craving to be immersive, but also not solely focus on one specific movie/series.

 

[Gusey]

It would exceed my dreams if Zelda were to get it's own land; but I still can't ignore the empty space(s) at IoA that need transformation. To me though, while Zelda is a perfect IP for a land anywhere - having it in the same park as Mario & DK seems like a bit of video game overkill: Spread the Nintendo love around!

Something major as an IP or land should be considered if it's a totally new "land." LOTR matches the idea of MAJOR, Wizard of OZ / Wicked.

IMO it's missing some "Space" Port kind of feel, and I'll forever think that the use an actual Port could bring together a ton of different IPs in one unified location. Get the rights for Star Trek, while a stretch maybe BTTF, acquire the rights for DUNE...etc. This idea of multiple IPs in one location would build off of the craving to be immersive, but also not solely focus on one specific movie/series.

As part of the Hero lot rumor, supposedly Nintendo wants its IP in one park except for Pokemon, that's why Zelda is moving to Epic

 

[djlaosc]

Can anyone who has been say whether the Nintendo shop in Celestial Park is selling different Nintendo merchandise to that available in the land?

Things like general Nintendo/Animal Crossing/Kirby/etc., that you could potentially find in the Nintendo Store in New York (and soon to be in San Francisco), rather than Mario and Donkey Kong merchandise that I expect to see in the land?

Or is it just selling the same things, for those who may not be able to get into the land for capacity?

 

[djlaosc]

As part of the Hero lot rumor, supposedly Nintendo wants its IP in one park except for Pokemon, that's why Zelda is moving to Epic

I suppose that could make sense - after all, Pokemon is to Nintendo as Frozen is to Disney Princesses - is a part of them (as well as Game Freak/The Pokemon Company), but has the name recognition to be able to stand solo.

Looking at the Nintendo franchises that have sold over 20 million according to Video Games Sales Wiki:

1. Mario (826.38 million)
2. Pokémon (480.00 million)
3. Wii Series (215.44 million)
4. The Legend of Zelda (163.34 million)
5. Animal Crossing (78.98 million)
6. Super Smash Bros (73.74 million)
7. Donkey Kong (65.00 million)*
8. Kirby (50.76 million)
9. Game & Watch (43.40 million)
10. Brain Age (35.51 million)
11. Yoshi (29.34 million)
12. Splatoon (29.22 million)
13. Nintendogs (28.65 million)
14. Duck Hunt (28.31 million)
15. Luigi's Mansion (23.10 million)
16. Wario (22.81 million)
17. Metroid (21.45 million)
18. Fire Emblem (20.70 million)

There aren't many other franchises that you could build full lands around.

They have already built Mario (1), Donkey Kong (7), Yoshi (11).
You aren't building a land or attraction around Wii (3), Super Smash Bros (6), Game & Watch (9), Brain Age (10), Nintendogs (13) or Duck Hunt (14).

That leaves:
2. Pokémon (480.00 million)
4. The Legend of Zelda (163.34 million)
5. Animal Crossing (78.98 million)
8. Kirby (50.76 million)
12. Splatoon (29.22 million)
15. Luigi's Mansion (23.10 million)
16. Wario (22.81 million)
17. Metroid (21.45 million)
18. Fire Emblem (20.70 million)

In terms of attraction potential:

• If you're building a "sword" land, then you are going to be building Hyrule/Legend of Zelda (4) rather than Fire Emblem (18) if it is Nintendo, Lord of the Rings if not.
• Metroid (17) as a ride could fit in well with a space port land (as mentioned above) - could fit with Star Trek/Men in Black, but wouldn't be any more than a ride. Also for it, and Splatoon (12), apart from a ride similar to Illumination's Villain-Con Minion Blast, I'm not sure what you would do.
• Luigi's Mansion (15) and/or Wario (16) would likely be a part of the current Mushroom Kingdom land, probably as a ride (Luigi) or a Meet n Greet (Wario).
• Kirby (8) could fit in well next to the Mushroom Kingdom, but would likely be a dark ride/merchandise, rather than a land.
• Animal Crossing (5) could probably do well with a specific merchandise location, but would be difficult to build an attraction around (maybe a dark ride around an island/city like Secret Life of Pets at Universal Hollywood, but unless you can show all 488 current villagers, someone's favourite is going to be missed out - I suppose this is similar to Pokemon - 1164 Pokemon - including different forms)
• And then there's Pokemon (2), which we know is coming.

Therefore, if the only other major "land" that you are going to get (apart from Pokemon) is Hyrule/Legend of Zelda, than it could make sense to put it in the same park as Mushroom Kingdom/Donkey Kong Country for marketing purposes. Whether you would put it next to those, or somewhere else in the park (next to Berk?) I don't know. I'm guessing if they were to build it, it would get it's own portal, even if next to Mushroom Kingdom, so they could put it elsewhere.

 

[TalkingHead]

In short, yes. Universal parks are, and have always been, about camera ready framed "shots". Not so much about 360° immersion.

By this logic they really screwed up Diagon Alley.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I suppose that could make sense - after all, Pokemon is to Nintendo as Frozen is to Disney Princesses - is a part of them (as well as Game Freak/The Pokemon Company), but has the name recognition to be able to stand solo.

Looking at the Nintendo franchises that have sold over 20 million according to Video Games Sales Wiki:

1. Mario (826.38 million)
2. Pokémon (480.00 million)
3. Wii Series (215.44 million)
4. The Legend of Zelda (163.34 million)
5. Animal Crossing (78.98 million)
6. Super Smash Bros (73.74 million)
7. Donkey Kong (65.00 million)*
8. Kirby (50.76 million)
9. Game & Watch (43.40 million)
10. Brain Age (35.51 million)
11. Yoshi (29.34 million)
12. Splatoon (29.22 million)
13. Nintendogs (28.65 million)
14. Duck Hunt (28.31 million)
15. Luigi's Mansion (23.10 million)
16. Wario (22.81 million)
17. Metroid (21.45 million)
18. Fire Emblem (20.70 million)

There aren't many other franchises that you could build full lands around.

They have already built Mario (1), Donkey Kong (7), Yoshi (11).
You aren't building a land or attraction around Wii (3), Super Smash Bros (6), Game & Watch (9), Brain Age (10), Nintendogs (13) or Duck Hunt (14).

That leaves:
2. Pokémon (480.00 million)
4. The Legend of Zelda (163.34 million)
5. Animal Crossing (78.98 million)
8. Kirby (50.76 million)
12. Splatoon (29.22 million)
15. Luigi's Mansion (23.10 million)
16. Wario (22.81 million)
17. Metroid (21.45 million)
18. Fire Emblem (20.70 million)

In terms of attraction potential:

• If you're building a "sword" land, then you are going to be building Hyrule/Legend of Zelda (4) rather than Fire Emblem (18) if it is Nintendo, Lord of the Rings if not.
• Metroid (17) as a ride could fit in well with a space port land (as mentioned above) - could fit with Star Trek/Men in Black, but wouldn't be any more than a ride. Also for it, and Splatoon (12), apart from a ride similar to Illumination's Villain-Con Minion Blast, I'm not sure what you would do.
• Luigi's Mansion (15) and/or Wario (16) would likely be a part of the current Mushroom Kingdom land, probably as a ride (Luigi) or a Meet n Greet (Wario).
• Kirby (8) could fit in well next to the Mushroom Kingdom, but would likely be a dark ride/merchandise, rather than a land.
• Animal Crossing (5) could probably do well with a specific merchandise location, but would be difficult to build an attraction around (maybe a dark ride around an island/city like Secret Life of Pets at Universal Hollywood, but unless you can show all 488 current villagers, someone's favourite is going to be missed out - I suppose this is similar to Pokemon - 1164 Pokemon - including different forms)
• And then there's Pokemon (2), which we know is coming.

Therefore, if the only other major "land" that you are going to get (apart from Pokemon) is Hyrule/Legend of Zelda, than it could make sense to put it in the same park as Mushroom Kingdom/Donkey Kong Country for marketing purposes. Whether you would put it next to those, or somewhere else in the park (next to Berk?) I don't know. I'm guessing if they were to build it, it would get it's own portal, even if next to Mushroom Kingdom, so they could put it elsewhere.

Universal should build a cottage/village hotel complex based on Animal Crossing.

 

[SamusAranX]

I’d die happy for a Metroid expansion. It was also check the space / sci fi portal that the park is missing.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I'll try to recount what I felt were the biggest sightline issues at Epic based on my one visit.

- Being able to see into the lands from Celestial Park is NOT an issue for me, the lands kind of bleed into Celestial Park anyway (SNW has a coin fountain in Celestial Park, for instance). This was a smart design choice.

- The expansion plots - between the main entrance and SNW, between SNW and DU, and between MiM and Stardust Racers - are currently pretty visible from Celestial Park. This could potentially be fixed in the next two months with more landscaping and walls. Remember that World Showcase, all along, has had expansion plots throughout it that people aren't even aware of, so it's possible to completely hide them.

- SNW and MiM are fully immersive, but you're surrounded by tall walls on all sides. Having all four lands take this design would have made the lands feel less unique.

- Dark Universe's back half, where Werewolf is, has some blatant views of backstage buildings and outside of the park from ground level. This area needed a berm. There is clearly space for another attraction back here that could eventually block the views, but relying on it eventually looking correct is sort of lazy IMO.

- Stardust Racers, while in the queue and on the ride, has ample views of the massive expansion pad between it and Potter.

- Isle of Berk really needed a berm with a thick treeline on all sides. While the theming inside the land is very good, it is by far the least immersive land as it does not feel enclosed or separated at all from the surrounding areas. The front half is dominated by views of Stardust Racers and backstage buildings. The back half feels like you could hop a fence and start walking over to the water treatment plant (probably true?).

In terms of impact, I would rank sightline issues in this order:

1. Being able to see completely outside of the park from ground level.
2. Being able to see backstage areas.
3. Being able to see other guest areas not related to the themed land you're in.

Number 1 I think is important for all theme parks and even many amusement parks. I want to block out the real world while I'm there even if I know it's still there. USF and IOA are actually pretty good about this. I know Hagrid's is right across the street from a high school, but I can't see it, so it's more of an escape. Obviously this can't be avoided when high up on a ride, but should be the goal from ground level views.

Number 2 is important for some theme parks. At USF, which, outside of Diagon Alley, does not aim for total immersion and is (or was) a "behind the scenes" studio park, it's not a big deal. IOA has a handful of backstage views but is mostly good about this.

Number 3 - in most theme parks this is a non-issue. IOA's lands, for instance, were never intended to be fully immersive, and it works. You're meant to take the place as a whole. When the goal is total immersion, like Galaxy's Edge, Diagon Alley, Pandora, etc, it is an issue. The four portal lands of Epic had this goal, but only two of them accomplish it.

As it stands, Disney remains the leader of quality sightlines and immersion, even if they themselves have slipped a bit over the years.

Yikes - these are some glaring issues for whats been sold as the next level of theme park design.

Pretty amazing that a theme park built in 1955 and is now surrounded by a modern city, has better sightlines and immersion, than a newly built 2025 theme park.

 

[Moth]

-snip

You can't vision a land based off Game&Watch and Duck Hunt because your brain isn't big enough. Give me enough Monster Energy, Duck Hunt zappers, and sharpies and I'll have a Duck Hunt land that'd make DisneySea cry in shame for being the worst thing ever compared to it.

I think Kirby could work as a land/mini-land attached to mainline SNW. But I'm biased because I love the pink puff, so other voices that don't have a bias should comment here.

Animal Crossing is in the same vein as Kirby, maybe the attraction can be a train ride across a "town"? Museum walk through attraction? I don't know. This has stumped me in my brainstorming sessions.

I think TLOZ has an issue of "what type of TLOZ do you focus on?", but once that's overcome, I can see a land for it working out.


I do think Wario deserves a ride though. Imagine a Wario Log Flume or something. I don't know.


Anyway, tomorrow is my EU day!!!

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Yikes - these are some glaring issues for whats been sold as the next level of theme park design.

Pretty amazing that a theme park built in 1955 and is now surrounded by a modern city, has better sightlines and immersion, than a newly built 2025 theme park.

I believe Anaheim actually has restrictions to prevent sightlines impacting Disneyland. If not, I'm sure most of the local hotels would have been turned into towers long ago.

Regardless, it's still remarkable how good the design of Disneyland holds up. It feels like a quaint little park in some ways because almost every show building is outside the berm and out of sight. I still remember going on Splash Mountain and expecting a short ride comparable to the local log flume, and being blown away at how much was hidden away.

Many theme parks seem to have gone away from that design principle. I guess with Universal Orlando they didn't have options to hide something like the Forbidden Journey building, but it really takes away from the awe of it all.