Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Opens May 22 2025

[mkt]

But what Universal has done with Mario land, and likely with every land in EU, is to make the world part of the attraction. So even though there are a good amount of thrill rides, there's plenty to experience around them.

This is the most correct assessment I’ve yet read

 

[UNCgolf]

It really isn’t unless every coaster is being classed as a thrill ride.

Some are of higher intensity than others, obviously, but that's true at every park -- I think family coasters are still thrill rides, at least to an extent (they're just targeted at kids). I also think the Monsters ride (and possibly even the HP ride) are at least thrill adjacent.

It feels pretty similar to the collection of attractions at IoA and USF to me.

 

[UNCgolf]

2) We visited SNW in California two years ago. We loved Mario Kart, but the land itself was part of the experience. Longtime theme park enthusiasts are used to rushing towards new attractions and running past anything else that's in between the park entrance and the queue. But what Universal has done with Mario land, and likely with every land in EU, is to make the world part of the attraction. So even though there are a good amount of thrill rides, there's plenty to experience around them.

I wasn't super impressed with SNW (part of that is because I thought Mario Kart was terrible), but this basically describes Disney parks (with a few exceptions), as well as the HP areas at USF and IoA. I don't think that's anything new. It's the main reason Disney was generally so far above other parks (at least for people like me); there was far more to see/do outside of the attractions themselves due to the heavy theming (unfortunately Disney has backed off on this). People could enjoy a day without riding anything.

I also think it highlights the problem with IP reliance (which applies to Disney just as much as Universal) -- Isle of Berk, e.g., looks incredibly bland to me, and I have no connection to the IP. So even if it is full of great details, it may not be impressive/resonate with people who don't already care about the IP.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Some are of higher intensity than others, obviously, but that's true at every park -- I think family coasters are still thrill rides, at least to an extent. I also think the Monsters ride (and possibly even the HP ride) are at least thrill adjacent.

It feels pretty similar to the collection of attractions at IoA and USF to me.

Harry Potter and the Battle at the Ministry is only a 40" height requirement. Same with all of the coasters except Stardust Racers. The bigger issue isn't so much thrills but that most of the attractions have a height limit, so the park doesn't really offer a lot for those under 40". That's not too bad when you consider that a 4 year old can meet that, but it does limit families.

 

[UNCgolf]

Harry Potter and the Battle at the Ministry is only a 40" height requirement. Same with all of the coasters except Stardust Racers. The bigger issue isn't so much thrills but that most of the attractions have a height limit, so the park doesn't really offer a lot for those under 40". That's not too bad when you consider that a 4 year old can meet that, but it does limit families.

My comment was solely in response to someone saying his kid didn't enjoy thrills, though, so everything was in context of that -- not whether they were actually rideable by kids. I was assuming he wouldn't want to ride any kind of coaster etc.

Mario Kart, Yoshi, the boat ride, and the carousel might be the only rideable attractions for someone like that. Possibly HP as well.

 

[Sorcerer Mickey]

I wasn't super impressed with SNW (part of that is because I thought Mario Kart was terrible), but this basically describes Disney parks (with a few exceptions), as well as the HP areas at USF and IoA. I don't think that's anything new. It's the main reason Disney was generally so far above other parks (at least for people like me); there was far more to see/do outside of the attractions themselves due to the heavy theming (unfortunately Disney has backed off on this). People could enjoy a day without riding anything.

I also think it highlights the problem with IP reliance (which applies to Disney just as much as Universal) -- Isle of Berk, e.g., looks incredibly bland to me, and I have no connection to the IP. So even if it is full of great details, it may not be impressive/resonate with people who don't already care about the IP.

My argument is not whether it's new, but that SNW (and potentially EU) is built in that way. UO and IoA, outside of their Potter lands, are not. UO especially is not an interesting theme park outside its individual attractions.

You said Isle of Berk "looks incredibly bland" but "is full of great details". These two ideas are at odds with each other. Separately, not everything has to resonate with you. An attraction based on a children's' movie should be primarily geared towards children.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

You said Isle of Berk "looks incredibly bland" but "is full of great details". These two ideas are at odds with each other.

That’s not true — these are not mutually exclusive.

I heavily disagree with their opinion on Berk, but bland + great details is exactly how I’d describe Celestial Park, which looks like it has the allure of a Vegas resort.

 

[UNCgolf]

You said Isle of Berk "looks incredibly bland" but "is full of great details". These two ideas are at odds with each other. Separately, not everything has to resonate with you. An attraction based on a children's' movie should be primarily geared towards children.

That's not what I said -- I said even if it's full of great details, that won't necessarily matter if they only resonate with fans of the IP. Isle of Berk looks bland to me period, likely because I don't care about the IP -- it just looks kind of generic and uninteresting.

That's the problem with building a bunch of single IP lands, and as I said, it's not just a Universal problem (want to be clear I'm not picking on Universal specifically here). Not everything has to resonate with every guest, but when it's almost a quarter of the whole park, that definitely matters.

Also, gearing whole areas specifically at children is a bad strategy (although I'm not claiming that Berk is geared towards children), at least if your goal is a park for everyone to enjoy. That's something you generally want to avoid, just as much as you want to avoid building whole areas that are only geared towards adults. If you're building a park solely for kids (something like Legoland) then that's a different discussion.

Regardless, I'm aware that I'm in the minority in that EU doesn't actually look great to me. I think the Nintendo area is a disappointment (although hopefully the Donkey Kong ride will be good) and Isle of Berk almost completely uninteresting, so that's basically half the park. HP is kind of an unknown... it looks solid, but also not nearly as interesting as Hogsmeade/Diagon Alley. Monsters seems like the clear highlight. Plus, the park overall is really lacking from an attractions standpoint for me.

But I'm also aware that they don't need me to be impressed!

 

[999th Happy Haunt]

Many reports of Monsters Unchained being one of the best dark rides ever created, if not THE best. Queue and preshow sound like attractions on their own.

 

[UNCgolf]

Many reports of Monsters Unchained being one of the best dark rides ever created, if not THE best. Queue and preshow sound like attractions on their own.

I'm really hoping they're right this time -- it looks like the most interesting attraction at EU. A lot of people said that about Forbidden Journey too and it's not great.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

That's not what I said -- I said even if it's full of great details, that won't necessarily matter if they only resonate with fans of the IP. Isle of Berk looks bland to me period, likely because I don't care about the IP -- it just looks kind of generic and uninteresting.

That's the problem with building a bunch of single IP lands, and as I said, it's not just a Universal problem (want to be clear I'm not picking on Universal specifically here). Not everything has to resonate with every guest, but when it's almost a quarter of the whole park, that definitely matters.

Also, gearing whole areas specifically at children is a bad strategy (although I'm not claiming that Berk is geared towards children), at least if your goal is a park for everyone to enjoy. That's something you generally want to avoid, just as much as you want to avoid building whole areas that are only geared towards adults. If you're building a park solely for kids (something like Legoland) then that's a different discussion.

Regardless, I'm aware that I'm in the minority in that EU doesn't actually look great to me. I think the Nintendo area is a disappointment (although hopefully the Donkey Kong ride will be good) and Isle of Berk almost completely uninteresting, so that's basically half the park. HP is kind of an unknown... it looks solid, but also not nearly as interesting as Hogsmeade/Diagon Alley. Monsters seems like the clear highlight. Plus, the park overall is really lacking from an attractions standpoint for me.

But I'm also aware that they don't need me to be impressed!

Even if someone is not familiar with the How To Train Your Dragon IP, Vikings and dragons are pretty well known in pop culture. It a kids version of Game of Thrones.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Even if someone is not familiar with the How To Train Your Dragon IP, Vikings and dragons are pretty well known in pop culture. It a kids version of Game of Thrones.

I feel I'm in the minority along with @UNCgolf on this, but not having a connection to the IP does make a difference to me. To give a Disney example, I don't have any real connection to the Cars films and I think that's why, while I can recognise that Carsland is well done, I don't feel a great connection to or affection for it. It really doesn't spark my imagination as much as the main lands over at Disneyland or probably even Grizzly Peak at DCA.

In general, I think theming is most effective when it evokes general concepts (even if those concepts are a time or place such as Africa or Asia at DAK) rather than recreates the world of a specific IP. I feel that approach allows multiple ways into the land depending on people's associations with different elements of the theme while broadly making sense to everyone. That's part of the reason I think a lot of us are most excited for Dark Universe as it works on that conceptual level that was the basis for Disneyland's initial success but which both Disney and Universal have largely abandoned in recent decades.

 

[UNCgolf]

Even if someone is not familiar with the How To Train Your Dragon IP, Vikings and dragons are pretty well known in pop culture. It a kids version of Game of Thrones.

It's not that simple, though. The dragons are highly stylized for one (at least some of them don't really look like what most people think of when they think of dragons), and while Vikings are well known, the land itself doesn't really conjure up Vikings (or at least it doesn't for me).

This will probably make some people unhappy, but it honestly looks like mobile game land to me. Clash of Clans or something like that. That's not the fault of the IP (I assume some of those mobile games copied their aesthetic from HTTYD, or were at least inspired by it), but that's what I think of when I see pictures of it.

Regardless, I'm only saying it doesn't work for me. That doesn't mean it won't work for anyone with no connection to the IP (I'm sure it will work for plenty); I'm only giving my personal opinion. And I think it's the inherent problem with sole IP lands.

 

[UNCgolf]

I feel I'm in the minority along with @UNCgolf on this, but not having a connection to the IP does make a difference to me. To give a Disney example, I don't have any real connection to the Cars films and I think that's why, while I can recognise that Carsland is well done, I don't feel a great connection to or affection for it. It really doesn't spark my imagination as much as the main lands over at Disneyland or probably even Grizzly Peak at DCA.

In general, I think theming is most effective when it evokes general concepts (even if those concepts are a time or place such as Africa or Asia at DAK) rather than recreates the world of a specific IP. I feel that approach allows multiple ways into the land depending on people's associations with different elements of the theme while broadly making sense to everyone. That's part of the reason I think a lot of us are most excited for Dark Universe as it works on that conceptual level that was the basis for Disneyland's initial success but which both Disney and Universal have largely abandoned in recent decades.

Yeah, although I haven't seen Carsland in person, it works in pictures for me -- to an extent. But that's because of the mid-century America Route 66 theming.

I'm almost positive I would like it more if it was just a Route 66 themed area without the Cars IP.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Yeah, although I haven't seen Carsland in person, it works in pictures for me -- to an extent. But that's because of the mid-century America Route 66 theming.

I'm almost positive I would like it more if it was just a Route 66 themed area without the Cars IP.

That was exactly my feeling about it and also why, while I understand the argument that Isle of Berk is like a vikings land, I know that the IP is something of a barrier for me.

 

[BrianLo]

I certainly don't think either of you are wrong on this. But I think what we define as generic IP, is still just IP by a different take. Americana and American landmarks are still pulling at a deep emotional connection that penetrates most generations of North America quite well.

But I think the argument than a Mainland Chinese visitor would have about the same emotional connection to it (Americana) as you both feel to HTTYD is probably equally true. Staying generic is perhaps "safer", or at least more broad based, but both operators are still chasing that Harry Potter high. When a generation has a rabid connection to a particular place from IP, it sort of coalesces into something that exceeds "generic".

Dark Universe isn't really more or less IP than HTTYD per se. Though more penetrative, particularly because it's older. So really the issue isn't HTTYD, but rather if it is popular enough to begin with. Perhaps it isn't.

I don't think people need to do homework.... but I would actually encourage people to watch the trilogy. I think you'll actually engage with what's there in an asymmetric way afterwards. It's quite a competent trilogy, despite how silly outwardly it looks and is named for that matter.

 

[BrianLo]

I had this issue at WDW with Smuggler's Run. The standby wait was posted at 45 minutes. I did the single rider line because my GF didn't want to ride, and I was in line for 60 minutes. It looked like I had at least 15-20 more minutes to go, too -- they must not have been taking many people from single rider because the line was stagnant for long periods.

I actually had to leave the queue because we were going to miss a lunch reservation.

That was before I'd ever been on Smuggler's Run. Now I know it's not worth waiting that long regardless.

Was this a long time ago? The attraction has dropped off a cliff at both resorts. Single rider is now generally a walk on. The downside is you are almost always an Engineer and I've become quite sick of the setup as a result. Also the downside with skipping the pre-show.

 

[BrianLo]

For the feedback about ticket sales, I still really feel like there are some serious missteps going on here. I don't understand what they are so afraid of. Maybe Volcano Bay's initial general public reviews?

This isn't a waterpark. It has capacity. Universal Orlando Resort as a whole is operating significantly under capacity right now. The resorts attendance isn't going to magically increase by 150% overnight, that's not how it works.

If it can't correctly handle 10 million guests, well then it wasn't built correctly. It doesn't need to handle 15 million, unless almost no one is in the other two gates...


Which swings me back around to what I think is really happening. It seems to me this is actually more about the Studios and IOA than it is about Epic overcrowding. If this was strictly about Epic over-crowding they'd be all in on single day, dated tickets, for however long they feel it is required. But I think they are trying to desperately shunt attendance towards their other two gates - and it isn't working. In doing so, they are also going to lose the whole Epic bump.

 

[TheCoasterNerd]

So I may or may not have just booked a trip down to Orlando this summer for EU (with money I definitely may not have)

 

[Gusey]

There are already so many things in the works now. We have a slate of new attractions that are already in development for every one of our parks. We're already planning for the next thing at Epic". So we know that all the parks are getting updates in the next few years, including Epic